Elections in Armenia

[Virgil]

Re: Presidential elections 2008 in Armenia

I hate to see him in the presidents seat, and think he should be hanged. he was the minister of national security during the october 27 events, and was unable to prevent this humiliating diasaster. the respectable thing for him to do would be to step down and retire from politics. instead, he is aspiring to higher and higer posts. this is ludacris.

as far as levon is concerned, no matter what names you attach to him, the bottom line is that those things accomplished under his rule remain the facts, and anything else said about him is just empty talk. he's not perfect, but hes a 1000 times better than serj.

No he definitly is not close to perfect, lets get somthing straight, I don't trust Diaspora, I don't trust Armenians in Armenia, I think they are both dishonest when it comes to politics (i.e. it was under the current political umbrella that duel citizenship was passed), however, LTP is not fit to run a state like Armenia at this point, you need a thug to run Armenia. Armenia needs a president that will not crumble underneath the saber rattling of Turkey and Azerbaijan. LTP just lacks any sort of bravery and courage, he is a idealist and intellectual, we don't need this kind of president. And also he is corrupt, essentially, the worst kind of president, one that is a idealist and corrupt, making corrupt decisions with idealist views. Are you honestly saying that he did not receive kickbacks during his presidency? He did, he could have cleaned up Armenia, people respected him, he had authority, instead he became corrupt and in the process he spread his corruption down the political ladder. Corruption only spreads when it is tolerated. Hes the reason Armenia has corruption, its rooted in his presidency.

In a more than hour-long speech, he said his decision to promote the two Nagorno-Karabakh-born men to high-ranking government positions in Yerevan in the 1990s has proved to be “disastrous” for Armenia.

Ter-Petrosian spent a large part of his speech trying to substantiate his view that the wars in Karabakh, which all but cut off Armenia from the rest of the world, and elsewhere in the region were the root cause of that. He said the war effort also required enormous material resources that could have otherwise been used for the facilitating the country’s transition to the free market. Ter-Petrosian specifically elaborated on the causes of the power shortages which meant that Armenian households had only a few hours of electricity a day between 1992 and 1995.

“I can still not disclose state secrets but will assure you that the money we spent on securing weapons, ammunition and fuel, supplying the army, defending the border regions of Armenia and restoring disrupted communication infrastructure would have been enough to fully provide our people with heat and electricity,” said Ter-Petrosian.

Do you agree with LTP? How do you feel about his statements? Don't squerm out of this one, this is what LTP the "savior" said during his speech, do you agree with him? Yes or no?

[Artsakh]

Re: Presidential elections 2008 in Armenia

Do you agree with LTP? How do you feel about his statements? Don't squerm out of this one, this is what LTP the "savior" said during his speech, do you agree with him? Yes or no?

I do not condone the use of the Karabakhtsi hayastancy distinction, for we are all armenians.

I could care less about ter pedrosyan. The only thing that Levons election win will achieve is a regime change. thats the only reason that i prefer his over serj. I am not worried about him undertaking any anti-armenian measures on karabakh because he won;t be the one calling the shots-there will be armenian nationalists behind the scenes that will be doing that. levon will be a mere figure head, thats why im not worried about his election, but a regime change is critical. in fact, i think i would support the ARF candidate over Serj.

[Virgil]

Re: Presidential elections 2008 in Armenia

I do not condone the use of the Karabakhtsi hayastancy distinction, for we are all armenians.

I could care less about ter pedrosyan. The only thing that Levons election win will achieve is a regime change. thats the only reason that i prefer his over serj. I am not worried about him undertaking any anti-armenian measures on karabakh because he won;t be the one calling the shots-there will be armenian nationalists behind the scenes that will be doing that. levon will be a mere figure head, thats why im not worried about his election, but a regime change is critical. in fact, i think i would support the ARF candidate over Serj.

You are avoiding the questions...

So...let me get this straight...you want to create a puppet government in Armenia backed by Armenian-Americans in order to dictate domestic poilicy from the United States by supporting Petrosyan? Let me ask you, does his comments intersect with this plan as well? Regardless of what you condone, he did and is using "Karabakhtsi hayastancy distinction", where I come from that amounts to treason. Let me again question the genius of your plan, how are you going to stop the soverign and elected leader of Armenia if he does try to backstab Armenians again with his idealist visions? The same way Armenian-Americans tried to stop Bobby?

[Artsakh]

Re: Presidential elections 2008 in Armenia

You are avoiding the questions...

So...let me get this straight...you want to create a puppet government in Armenia backed by Armenian-Americans in order to dictate domestic poilicy from the United States by supporting Petrosyan? Let me ask you, does his comments intersect with this plan as well? Regardless of what you condone, he did and is using "Karabakhtsi hayastancy distinction", where I come from that amounts to treason. Let me again question the genius of your plan, how are you going to stop the soverign and elected leader of Armenia if he does try to backstab Armenians again with his idealist visions? The same way Armenian-Americans tried to stop Bobby?

I just want to achieve a regime change in yerevan. This current system is rotten to the core and extremely corrupt. even if you place the most patriotic armenian in power, they wont be able to operate under such circumstances, i believe.

i don't think levon has any backing from the diaspora. and the only reason i want levon is to achieve a regime change. He won't be calling the shots once in power. And he knows his head will be eaten if he attempts any defeatist line on the karabakh issue. all these talk is for domestic political purposes, its politics to get votes.

which questions are am i avoiding? the war DID drain a lot of resources that could otherwise have gone to statebuilding.

by the way, these are only my personal observations and views as someone who follows and loves politics. I have no intent on undertaking any actual or physical regime change.

[Virgil]

Re: Presidential elections 2008 in Armenia

I just want to achieve a regime change in yerevan. This current system is rotten to the core and extremely corrupt. even if you place the most patriotic armenian in power, they wont be able to operate under such circumstances, i believe.

i don't think levon has any backing from the diaspora. and the only reason i want levon is to achieve a regime change. He won't be calling the shots once in power. And he knows his head will be eaten if he attempts any defeatist line on the karabakh issue. all these talk is for domestic political purposes, its politics to get votes.

which questions are am i avoiding? the war DID drain a lot of resources that could otherwise have gone to statebuilding.

You are taking this very lightly, this is not regime change, this is suicide, once he is in power who will remove him, all I will say is that you are playing with fire, just don't get burned for my sake and for your own.

No, the war did not drain any resources, the soldiers did not have clean water and supplies to fight a decent fight, corrupt government officials under Petrosyan drained resources. He is just lying to save his own ass, I would beleive his side of the story, but the reality is that the soldiers in Artsakh had only moral support on their side and logically, economically you don't have to move mountain to have supported them. We are not talking about Stealth Bombers and Abram Tanks, we are talking about villagers equiped with AK-47's and outdated tanks and military trucks. The vehicles themselves were not even efficient during the war because most of fighting involved pushing the enemy back on narrow mountain passes, they just used them as mobile walls to hide behind while they broke the enemy's defenses. Furthermore, if they were adequetly funded you wouldn't have Joe Artsahk mafioso stealing vehicles from Soviet military depots and Azeri forces.

[Armenian]

Re: Presidential elections 2008 in Armenia

Virgil, this "Artsakh" character is a silly person.

Notice that he keeps repeating over-and-over-and-over-again that Serge Sarkisian made some 'vague' statement regarding the territories in Artsakh - while totally ignoring the fact that the primary reason why LTP was ousted was because he was actually going to sell out Artskah for a mere promise by the West. And the instrumental person involved in LTP's fall from power was none other than his superhero Vazgen Sarkisian.

The fact remains, regardless of what Kocharyan and Sarkisian are sometimes forced to say on the international arena - their actions on the ground in Artskah have be nationalistic in every sense. Ever since LTP's departure there has been no serious talk in Yerevan about land concessions in Artsakh. Artsakh today is politically stable and militarily impregnable due to its highly trained and disciplined armed forces and Armenia's close geopolitical relations with Russia and Iran. When LTP was in power all he did was undermine Russian Armenian relations and ass-kissed Washington officials, Turks and Azeris. Like I said previously, according to military men in Armenia - Shushi/Lachin were taken in 1992 in spite of LTP's wishes.

Also notice that he keeps repeating over-and-over-and-over-again that Sarkisian stole millions in Armenia - while totally ignoring the fact that the LTP's administration sucked the life blood of the Armenian Republic during its worst years. The most corrupt individuals to date have been the ones that were spontaneously generated during LTP's reign. It's only in the last few years that Armenia has been able to recuperate somewhat from the mess created by the LTP years.

Pro-LTP individuals like Artsakh, a tiny minority even in the diaspora, are either ignorant of geopolitics, psychologically/emotionally troubled or working for someone in the West. Moscow has clearly signaled that their choice for president is Sarkisian. An LTP presidency can potentially create problems with Moscow and Tehran and it will also excite Turks, Azeris, US State Department officials and dangerous lunatics like Soros. We don't need this shit.

The Armenian Republic needs to continue on the path that it has been going on for the past several years and the only way that can happen is if the current administration retains power after next year's elections.

And hear this - I would vote for Serge Sarkisian before I vote for an ARF candidate

[Lernakan]

Re: Presidential elections 2008 in Armenia

From what I have heard, Serzh Sarkissian was in Moscow for three months to arrange the transfer of weapons and ammunition to Artsakh.

SAMVEL BABAYAN IS LIKELY TO MAKE FACTS OF SERGE SARGSYAN'S ACTIVITIES KNOWN

Lragir, Armenia
Nov 24 2007

During the conference of the Dashink Party Samvel Babayan stated after
the decision to join the Ramkavar Party of Armenia on November 24 that
it is not correct to rephrase the first president's statements. The
reporters asked him about Ter-Petrosyan's statement that Serge Sargsyan
had been expulsed to Moscow in 1993. The reporters said the media even
reported that Serge Sargsyan had been expulsed after controversies
with Samvel Babayan. In other words, the commander of the Karabakh
force then Samvel Babayan had expulsed him.

Samvel Babayan said it is not true. He said soon he will present in
facts what had happened in reality and why Serge Sargsyan had been
seconded to Moscow. He says it was connected with the crime committed
by the politicians and the political government of Armenia then,
namely prevention of the liberation of Nagorno-Karabakh. He promised
to enumerate the names of people, the instructions they gave, the
participants, the airports, Serge Sargsyan's role, what he sent, what
he did, what ammunition was sent, who prevented the transportation
of ammunition. "As to Serge Sargsyan's absence of one year, Serge
Sargsyan was absent from Karabakh for three months, from the end of
May till August. Besides, Serge Sargsyan put his signature to the map
of operation of Lachin-Kelbadjar, and Samvel Babayan, NKR minister
of defense then, signed it. There are facts, it is not only statements.

They present Samvel Babayan as a monster to settle their scores. If
they have scores to settle, they should not involve Samvel Babayan,"
Samvel Babayan says.

According to him, earlier he had been said to have expulsed Commandos,
Arkady Ter-Tadevosyan.

"The same person meets me now, thanks me for saving him in that state
of panic. Meanwhile, the Armenian people believe, the same forces
stated that Samvel Babayan had expulsed him. This won't do. I don't
want to tell the story, the reality to the society because the society
will feel disappointed," Samvel Babayan says adding that his silence
for so many years is related to this.

[Artsakh]

Re: Presidential elections 2008 in Armenia

Notice that he keeps repeating over-and-over-and-over-again that Serge Sarkisian made some 'vague' statement regarding the territories in Artsakh

Listen, hot shot, and I'll keep on repeating it over and over. It isn't the DEFENSE MINISTERS place to get involved in politics. A defense minister job is to make sure the military is in top shape, physically, morally, and every other way. Today, there are alot of issues facing our army that need to be addressed, and they are many. A good defense minister should involve himself in such matters, and not speak of returning liberated territories and asking "would u live in lachin?" Good boys continue to die on a regular basis till this day despite the cease fire defending those very liberated territories, and its a slap in their face when the top general speaks like that in the face of growing and growing Azeri war rhetoric. Its interesting that Azerbaijan--the cousins of turkish masters of diplomacy- does not give any "lip service" to the world powers. And if you're such a patriot, i invite you to go serve on the front line in those liberated territories, tough guy--otherwise shut the f f u @k up. My childhood friends are now serving in Karabakh.

got it? it isn't a defense ministers place to do what serje did and what he did does qualify him for a hanging. And if you want to discuss this matter with a professional military veteran, next time ur in Armenia, let me know ill have my uncle give u a visit.

while totally ignoring the fact that the primary reason why LTP was ousted was because he was actually going to sell out Artskah for a mere promise by the West.

Addressing another rally held in the Armenian capital on Friday, Ter-Petrosian cited past statements by former leaders of Karabakh, including Kocharian, that credited him with the Armenian victory in the 1992-1994 war with Azerbaijan. One such statement, made by Kocharian in a 1995 letter to Ter-Petrosian, said “the grateful people of Artsakh (Karabakh) will never forget your personal contribution to our heroic struggle.”

[Virgil]

Re: Presidential elections 2008 in Armenia

And if you're such a patriot, i invite you to go serve on the front line in those liberated territories, tough guy--otherwise shut the f f u @k up. My childhood friends are now serving in Karabakh.

got it? it isn't a defense ministers place to do what serje did and what he did does qualify him for a hanging. And if you want to discuss this matter with a professional military veteran, next time ur in Armenia, let me know ill have my uncle give u a visit.
[/B]

If anyone is a traitor its Armenians that leave their homeland, not Armenians that had no country to leave and were living as stateless orphans, the door swings both ways, no one is attack you, no one is arguing that these statements are "good for the good old boys", but you need to get off your high horse and understand that electing Ter-Petrosyan when he became a symbol of treason is just taking a step back and advocating the idea that making these statemenst is (a) ok and (b) forgiviable, second of all, Ter-Petrosyan has repeated the statements that are considered treasonous (i.e. difference in Karabaghsi yev Armenians, "The war drained resources", and etc ... ), and third of all, you are placing too much faith in Armenian-American organizations ability to control Ter-Petrosyan when in fact once a leader is in power, he will remain in power until he decides to hand over power or he is ousted via revolution or coup d'tat. It is like allowing Benedict Arnold to run for president? Does this register? By the way, I understand you have relatives in Armenia and Karabagh, we all have, we all care about that country, that is why we are, that is why we discuss these issues, but I am being dead honest with you, Ter-Petrosyan is a degenerate tratior that needed to be hung, he should not be given a second chance and anyone that gives him a second chance is pissing on national moral.

[Armenian]

Re: Presidential elections 2008 in Armenia

Listen, hot shot, and I'll keep on repeating it over and over. It isn't the DEFENSE MINISTERS place to get involved in politics.

Do you mean this is the first time that someone in politics other than a sitting president has made 'policy' statements?

Like I said, you are a very silly individual. You are desperately trying to slander and attack an individual you passionately hate. You are at a point now where you are digging the bottom of the barrel. You hate this man so much that you are willing to jeopardize the entire geopolitical stability of the Armenian Republic. You are a sad joke, Artskah.

A defense minister job is to make sure the military is in top shape, physically, morally, and every other way. Today, there are alot of issues facing our army that need to be addressed, and they are many.

Stop your stupid none sense. The overall condition of the military in Armenia and Artskah are the best they have ever been. As far as addressing all the issues, of course there are issues to address. The same, however, applies to the mighty armed forces of the United States - there are many-many issues regarding the US armed forces that are not being addressed by the wealthiest nation on earth. Stop your silliness.

A good defense minister should involve himself in such matters, and not speak of returning liberated territories and asking "would u live in lachin?"

Again, stop your nonsense. The only person in Armenian that ever seriously thought about giving away any lands has been LTP - no one else. Had you opposed Sarkisian without supporting LTP you would have had some intellectual integrity, since you are supporting a anti-nationalistic, anti-Russian, anti-Artsakh, pro-internationalism, pro-Zionist, pro-Turk, pro-Washington DC puppet. The fact that you don't address LTP generated absurdities reveals your intentions: You are only concerned about assassinating Sarkisian, nothing else. When it come to the ARF you always give me BS about them talking to Turks, being pro-Israel, being in bed with the CIA, being Masons, etc...

Why don't you address LTP socialistic tendencies, his Masonic ties, his Jewish connection, or his warms relations with Turks and the US State Department?

From your biased comments I can only deduce that you are either a very ignorant person or on some kind of an agenda.

Good boys continue to die on a regular basis till this day despite the cease fire defending those very liberated territories, and its a slap in their face when the top general speaks like that in the face of growing and growing Azeri war rhetoric.

Again, stop your stupid none-sense and address LTP's character as I have outlined above. I also suggest you read some history books and take a course or two in political science.

Its interesting that Azerbaijan--the cousins of turkish masters of diplomacy- does not give any "lip service" to the world powers.

Are you serious? It's because they are in a much more advantageous geopolitical and economic situation, unlike a landlocked, resource-less and tiny Armenia. A five year old could have answered this mindless question of yours.

And if you're such a patriot, i invite you to go serve on the front line in those liberated territories, tough guy--otherwise shut the f f u @k up. My childhood friends are now serving in Karabakh. got it?

How old are you again, thirteen?

it isn't a defense ministers place to do what serje did and what he did does qualify him for a hanging. And if you want to discuss this matter with a professional military veteran, next time ur in Armenia, let me know ill have my uncle give u a visit.

Is your "professional military veteran" uncle pro-LTP as well?

No thanks, I know enough people myself.

Addressing another rally held in the Armenian capital on Friday, Ter-Petrosian cited past statements by former leaders of Karabakh, including Kocharian, that credited him with the Armenian victory in the 1992-1994 war with Azerbaijan. One such statement, made by Kocharian in a 1995 letter to Ter-Petrosian, said[B] “the grateful people of Artsakh (Karabakh) will never forget your personal contribution to our heroic struggle.”

Of course he would, he worked for him

And what happened a few years later?

Wow Artskah, for me, your moral and intellectual integrity has been utterly shattered, perhaps forever. You political rhetoric here has been shallow, absurd, dangerous, illogical and transparent. For one who supports a treasonous criminal like LTP - I am not surprised.