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Elections in Armenia

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  • Re: Presidential elections 2008 in Armenia

    Dashnak Leader Blames Ter-Petrosian, West For Armenia Unrest


    By Ruzanna Stepanian

    Opening a regular congress of Dashnaktsutyun in Yerevan, Hrant Markarian, the de facto head of the influential party’s governing Bureau, said the use of lethal force against Ter-Petrosian supporters protesting against alleged vote rigging was therefore justified. He also defended Dashnaktsutyun’s decision to join President Serzh Sarkisian’s governing coalition following the February 19 presidential election.

    “What happened in the country [in the wake of the election] was an attempt at a color revolution,” Markarian said in a speech before hundreds of congress delegates, many of them representing Dashnaktsutyun structures in the worldwide Armenian Diaspora. “Under our noses there was formed an organized mechanism or, as they like to say, a network similar to [the ones created in] other states: Georgia, Serbia, Ukraine. It was formed with foreign orders and funding.”

    In all three nations mentioned by Markarian, opposition forces toppled the ruling regimes with sustained anti-government demonstrations sparked by reputedly rigged elections. The uprisings were welcomed by Western powers and the United States in particular.

    Markarian spoke of an unspecified world power that “seeks to subordinate the causes of all peoples to its interests and aims” by means of “various international NGOs and foundations.” Speaking to journalists, he said the New York-based human rights group Freedom House and the U.S. National Democratic Institution are among those organizations. Asked which concrete foreign government is keen to foment a “color revolution” in Armenia, he said, “It’s not hard guess. I think you know it.”

    “The network was formed by the foreign power,” Markarian said in his speech. “The opposition presidential candidate [Ter-Petrosian] was placed and dressed on the network.”

    The Iranian-born politician, who spent more than three years in prison during Ter-Petrosian’s rule, further charged that the former Armenian president is primarily responsible for the March 1 clashes in Yerevan between riot police and his supporters, which left at least ten people dead. “March 1 was beneficial for neither the country, nor for the people or the government,” he said. “It was beneficial only for [Ter-Petrosian,] and unfortunately he got it. Those who still believe him must think about that. Especially the youth.”

    Markarian echoed the Armenian government’s justification of the bloody suppression of the post-election opposition protests. “If I was attacked I too would use firearms too,” he told reporters. “Who would want his head to be chopped?”

    Addressing the party conference, Markarian also commented on his party’s poor showing in the presidential election. According to the Central Election Commission, the Dashnaktsutyun candidate, Vahan Hovannisian, won only 6 percent of the vote. During the election campaign Hovannisian urged Armenians to reject their current and former leaders, saying that they are both to blame for the country’s problems.

    Markarian blamed Hovannisian’s failure to live up to the party’s expectations on the government camp and Ter-Petrosian. “Fear of other candidates’ success was the reason why our candidate’s performance did not match his real popularity,” he said.

    The Dashnaktsutyun leader was particularly scathing about Ter-Petrosian’s harsh anti-government rhetoric that earned the ex-president unexpectedly strong voter support. “He didn’t come to wage a program-based and ideological struggle,” said Markarian. “Rallying the headless opposition masses around him, he created an atmosphere in which ethical norms of struggle gave way to destruction, slander, hatred and demagoguery.”

    Markarian went on to defend Dashnaktsutyun’s decision to remain part of a government which it strongly criticized during the election campaign. He cited the need to help the Sarkisian administration cope with external challenges facing Armenia. “As long as that danger is there, our being in the coalition is justified,” he said.

    Source: http://www.armenialiberty.org/armeni...C7D6B7A944.ASP
    Մեր ժողովուրդն արանց հայրենասիրութեան այն է, ինչ որ մի մարմին' առանց հոգու:

    Նժդեհ


    Please visit me at my Heralding the Rise of Russia blog: http://theriseofrussia.blogspot.com/

    Comment


    • Re: Presidential elections 2008 in Armenia

      Armenian, do you have anything to say about what i posted in the post above yours?

      Comment


      • Re: Presidential elections 2008 in Armenia

        Originally posted by Gevork View Post
        Armenian, do you have anything to say about what i posted in the post above yours?
        I believe Russian-Armenian relations are very-very self-explanatory. One need not be a genius to see the absolute necessity of such a relationship. I have posted a lot of my opinions on this matter. Frankly, I am getting tired of explaining it to individuals who consider themselves proud Armenians and who claim that they are concerned about Armenia's future.

        It's simple: Russian-Armenian alliance is a NATURAL outcome of the prevailing geopolitical situation within the greater Caucasus region. Thank God, this will remain so in the foreseeable future. Taking into consideration that Armenia has no regional friends, no resources; and taking into consideration that Armenia is tiny, landlocked and impoverished, it is NATURAL that Armenia will have to be subordinate to Russia for the foreseeable future.

        Yet, we still have idiots who say we have to "play tough" with Moscow. Freaking insane! In my opinion, we have to 'embrace' and 'infiltrate' Moscow not run away from it. Armenia exists because of Russian presence in the Caucasus. Let's face our harsh reality and move forward from there. Instead of bitching, let's take advantage of the unique opportunity our alliance with Russia is providing us and build a strong Armenia so that when Russia decides one day they don't need us we would be able to fend for ourselves.

        You should also read the replies I gave Hellektor regarding Russian-Armenian relations in the other thread.

        Originally posted by Gevork View Post
        Armenian, I was reading the articles you posted, and it looks like Russia practicaly owns Armenia From the nuclear plant, to the Aluminum mines which are 40% of Armenia's export.
        Yes, they do.

        All of that revenue that should go to Armenia is going to Russia.
        You are right.

        Russia has got Armenia by the balls.
        Yes, they do.

        They have a military presence in Armenia,
        Yes they have.

        and take that as a reason to takeover Armenia's assets.
        Very true.

        Also I read that Levon was also Pro-Russian.
        Don't believe everything you read.

        Stratfor claimed he is pro-Russian because there were rumors that Levon visited Moscow just prior to the Armenian elections and becasue Levon has never overtly made anti-Russian statements. Nevertheless, we all know who and what Levon represents in Armenia.

        I think Russia is a double edged sword to us.
        Yes, it is.

        We are not allies with them we are subbordinate to them.
        Yes, we are. Look at it this way - at least we are not subordinate to Georgia, Azerbaijan, Turkey or Iran.

        It is a difficult situation.
        Yes, it is.

        Geogia was in the same place as us, they broke away from russia, and now have Abkhazia and Ossetia funded by russia trying to break free.
        Very true.

        So, seeing that you have more or less grasped the overall situation, how do you think Armenia should deal with Russia?
        Մեր ժողովուրդն արանց հայրենասիրութեան այն է, ինչ որ մի մարմին' առանց հոգու:

        Նժդեհ


        Please visit me at my Heralding the Rise of Russia blog: http://theriseofrussia.blogspot.com/

        Comment


        • Re: Presidential elections 2008 in Armenia

          Well, can any one else offer us a better deal? I understand your points very well but its as if we are just screwed. Is azerbaijan subordinate to the level that we are to say turkey? or whoever else? How about Georgia? I just think we are getting squeezed EVERY one is going against us!! That leds me to ask myself maybe there are things we can do diffrently. I mean I understand Turkey and Azeris going against us, but now Georgia?!

          Is there a way for armenia to get close with Europe or china? or is this Fu cken world just america and russia?

          If this is our situation which seems very hopeless, maybe we should join russia, and be an autonomouse region like North ossetia. I mean how the hell does azerbaijan do it? or are they in the same situation as us?

          Comment


          • Re: Presidential elections 2008 in Armenia

            Originally posted by Gevork View Post
            Well, can any one else offer us a better deal?
            The reason why we have an Armenian Republic today, the reason why we won the war in Artsakh, the reason why we have kept Artsakh, the reason why Washington, Ankara and Baku does not bomb Yerevan, the reason why an insignificant tiny, landlocked, resource-less, impoverished Armenia has political clout upon the international scene - is Russia.

            And let's not fool ourselves, the Russians know this quite well. That is why they feel as if we 'owe' them, they don't owe us anything. Frankly, I understand their sentiments. Since they don't trust anyone they feel as if the only way they can secure allies is by controlling them economically, militarily and politically. They have managed just that with Armenia and Belarus, they have been unsuccessful in Ukraine, Georgia and Azerbaijan. Serbia is still up in the air.

            Let them buy up as much as they can in Armenia. It is to our longterm benefit. Besides the fact that they are pumping in billions to upgrade Armenia's industry and infrastructure, Russia gives us access to a large consumer market. Russia can be a vast market for Armenian goods producers. Russia can also be a transit route for trade with China and Europe. So let them come in buy as much as they can. By placing their monies in our republic they will have a vested interest in protecting their investments. You tell me, what would have Armenia been able to do with its dilapidated factories and Soviet era infrastructure? If Russia would not buy into the Armenian economy who then would be willing? The Armenian natives? No. America? No. Turkey? No. Azerbaijan? No. Iran? No. Europe? No. China? No. The Armenian Diaspora? No xxxxing way!!!

            Only Russia has been interested in investing in Armenia.

            Within the Caucasus there is a great struggle between NATO (Europe, USA, Turkey), Georgia and Azerbaijan on one side and the Russian Federation on the other side. Armenia is stuck in the middle of all this. China does not play a direct role in the region. Even if it did, the Caucasus would still be Russian territory. Also don't forget China and Russia are essentially united in a military and economic alliance. Like it or not, we are stuck with Russia. Russia is our only option.

            Look at what all the western help, oil/gas and sea access has gotten Azerbaijan and Georgia - they are doing worst than Armenia. Even with massive financial help from Saudi Arabia, Europe, Turkey and the US, Georgia is in great danger today. Even with all its gas/oil, western and Turkish help, Azerbaijan is hostage to Moscow and they are helpless against Artsakh. I have no problems being subordinate to a major superpower like the Russian Federation. Vast majority of nations on earth are subordinate to one power or another. That is simply how the world revolves. Before Armenians who complain about this should first take a close look at themselves in the mirror. Let me remind you again: tiny, impoverished, landlocked and resource-less = insignificant.

            I just want us to best utilize our alliance with Russia and build a powerful republic and do it quickly before the current geopolitical formulations in the region change to our detriment.

            However, we are walking a fine line in the Caucasus. On one side we have nationalist yahoos and western oriented foo-foos who think Armenia needs to pull away from Russia and "play tough" with Moscow, and on the the side we have Turks and Azeris trying to sabotage our strategic relations with Moscow by lobbying against us in the Kremlin.

            Thus, Armenia's alliance with Russia is fragile and can fall apart at any time. Instead of using the unique opportunity our alliance with Russia is providing us to strengthen the Armenian Republic we are looking to undermine it instead. Fucking amazing. Instead of complaining that there are too many Armenians in Russia we should be encouraging Armenians in Russia to climb the social ladder there and play prominant roles in the Federation as many already have to our benefit.

            Just imagine, the speaker of the Russian Duma and Russia's most famous scientist is Arthur Chilingarov; One of their greatest diplomats is the half Armenian Sergei Lavrov; The director of the world famous Sukhoi aeronautical company is Mikael Poghosian. There are many-many prominent Russian Armenian artists, scientists, scholars, businessmen, developers, etc, living in the Russian Federation today. I complain that they are not well organized, although they are gradually becoming so. However, do you think these people don't have an impact on geopolitical formulations of the Kremlin. Do you think the Armenian billionaire Ara Abrahamian, a close friend of Putin's, does not have an impact on the Kremlin's political inclinations?

            Although there are a few wrinkles that need to be ironed out, for better or for worst, Armenia's future lies with the Russian Federation. Why Russia? Besides the centuries long history between Armenians and Russians, besides the fact that due to a Russian presence in the region there is an Armenia in the Caucasus today, besides the fact that Russia is amongst the most advanced nations on earth - Armenians need to understand that the twenty-first century potentially belongs to Russia. This is, in essence, why we are currently seeing a frenzy of activity in the West to contain and/or undermine the Russian Federation throughout Eurasia.

            What's more, Armenians need to understand that Russia is a natural bulwork against pan-Turkism, western imperialism and Sunni fundamentalism. I am very glad that the "Hanrapetakan" party in Armenia, represented today by president Serzh Sargsyan, has had the strategic foresight to make sure that Armenia remains firmly within Moscow's sphere of influence. Concurrently, I am grateful that Moscow continues to realize the vital strategic importance of the Armenian Republic within the Caucasus.

            Why is Armenia important for Russia?

            For geostrategic reasons, namely to keep NATO and Turks out of the Caucasus and to secure its oil/gas distribution networks, Moscow needs Armenia as an ally in the region. And as noted above, for geostrategic, economic and survival reasons - Armenia needs Russian support.

            The fact of the matter is, the West has no real interests within the tiny landlocked resource-less Armenian Republic other than to make sure official Yerevan does not interfere with their regional projects. The West's interest in the region is primarily the exploitation of Caspian Sea basin oil and gas, keeping the large powerful nation of Turkey within its sphere of influence and keeping Russia at bay, out of the Caucasus.

            Needless to say, without the Russian factor at play in the Caucasus, the every existence of the Armenian nation can be at risk. For the West, Armenia is simply a geopolitical obstacle, a nuisance. For Russia, Armenia is a strategic gate, a foothold in the Caucasus, that it has to protect for its national interests. For Armenia, Russia is a sustainer that it needs to stay alive in a very volatile and complicated geopolitical environment. For a small, landlocked and resources-less nation surrounded by historic enemies in an increasingly complicated world, Armenia has no other option but to place its hopes upon the Russian Federation.
            Մեր ժողովուրդն արանց հայրենասիրութեան այն է, ինչ որ մի մարմին' առանց հոգու:

            Նժդեհ


            Please visit me at my Heralding the Rise of Russia blog: http://theriseofrussia.blogspot.com/

            Comment


            • Re: Presidential elections 2008 in Armenia

              I enjoyed reading what you wrote and see your point. However I have to disagree with one thing:

              "The reason why we have an Armenian Republic today, the reason why we won the war in Artsakh, the reason why we have kept Artsakh, the reason why Washington, Ankara and Baku does not bomb Yerevan, the reason why an insignificant tiny, landlocked, resource-less, impoverished Armenia has political clout upon the international scene - is Russia."


              Russia is not the reason why we won the war. It is true they helped us, but the help came in the latter years of the war. the hardships our fighters faced from 1989-1992 there was no help from russia. When after the battle of Shushi the tyed was turned that is when russia came to our side. There were even russian and ukranian mercanries bombing us who were on the azeri paylist. Furthermore, Azerbaijan had fighters from Afghanistan to chechnia fighting for them. I would also like to add that if no one interferse Azeris cant take artsakh they just lack the will and puropse.

              Comment


              • Re: Presidential elections 2008 in Armenia

                Originally posted by Gevork View Post
                Russia is not the reason why we won the war. It is true they helped us, but the help came in the latter years of the war. the hardships our fighters faced from 1989-1992 there was no help from russia. When after the battle of Shushi the tyed was turned that is when russia came to our side.
                Not quite. I was probably your age back then and I was following events very closely. I also went to Armenia in 1992 and met with freedom fighters. Soon after the final collapse of the Soviet Union in 1991 it became obvious that the Russian Federation had begun helping Armenians. By 1992, the Russian Federation was openly siding with Armenia. Azeris were even angrily complaining that Russian forces had participate in the Khojali operation that eventually lead to the liberation of Shushi soon thereafter.

                There were even russian and ukranian mercanries bombing us who were on the azeri paylist.
                Afghans, Chechens, Turks, Ukrainians yes. I never came across news reports about "Russian mercenaries" fighting Armenians. However, if there were Russian mercenaries fighting for Azeris it would be no surprise. A mercenary is a soldier for hire. It has no political implications. There were ethnic Russians selling arms to Chechens during the Chechen war.

                I don't care if our freedom fighters were the most valiant, most courageous men on earth, without modern armaments they would have been helpless on the battlefield against Azeris and their allies. Without modern anti-aircraft missiles Azeri warplanes would have leveled Stepanakert within a season. Besides vast quantities of arms that Russia provided Armenia at little or no cost, Moscow also gave us diplomatic support on the international scene, military intelligence, military specialist and training. Without Russian help Artsakh would not have been liberated by us in 1993 and we would not have been able to hold on since. Don't allow your pride get in the way of reality. The following article from the late 1990s is the official Azeri complaint against Russia.

                ******************************

                Armenia Armed by Russia for battles with Azerbaijan Scandal compared to Iran-Contra



                Russia secretly has shipped more than $1 billion worth of arms to Armenia, apparently to be used against - pro-Western Azerbaijan and - to force the Azeris -and their strategic oil reserves into Russia's orbit. Aman Tuleyev, minister for relations with the Commonwealth of Independent States, has acknowledged that Moscow supplied Armenia with 84 T-72 main battle tanks, 72 heavy howitzers, 24 Scud missiles with eight launchers, 50 armored personnel carriers and millions of rounds of ammunition. Lev Rokhlin, the chairman of the Defense Committee of the Duma, the lower House of the Russian parliament, told a closed Duma session April 2 that Moscow had -shipped $1 billion worth of weapons to the tough, nationalist government of President Levon Ter-Petrosian in Yerevan. His report was similar to Mr. Tuleyev's acknowledgment. Between 1992 and early 1994, when the conflict was at its height, Russian heavy transport aircraft were said to have ferried 1,300 tons of ammunition across the Caucasus to the Armenian capital. Most of the tanks were flown in aboard giant Antonov planes from the city of Akhtubinsk.

                The Azeris say Russia also supplied 1,000 hand-fired Strela-2 and Strela-3 anti-aircraft missiles, which were moved by ship across The Caspian Sea, then sent over land through Iran to Armenia. Iran has denied playing any role. Western intelligence sources said The weapons played a crucial role in Armenia's, seizure of large areas of Azerbaijan, which created a million refugees, more than from any other conflict in Europe since World War II. Although Russia's military support for Armenia in its long conflict with Azerbaijan has been well-known, the extent of the arms transfers came as a surprise.

                Responding to the revelations, Russian President Boris Yeltsin ordered a major government probe Saturday that could implicate his longtime defense minister, Marshal Pavel Grachev who was fired last spring. Russian military prosecutors are considering calling Marshal Grachev in for questioning over the scandal, which has been compared to The Iran-Contra affair. The- chairman of the Azeri parliament, Murtuz Alesketov, said Saturday the arms shipments could destabilize the Caucasus. "If these arms are not returned, this could lead to a new large-scale war in the region" he said at parliamentary hearings in Baku. Since the collapse of the Soviet Union at the end of 1991, Shi'ite Muslim Azerbaijan has eagerly courted American oil companies to help it develop the immense oil and gas reserves of the Caspian Sea, estimated as second in size and value only to those in the Persian Gulf. Russia has responded by backing Orthodox Christian Armenia, its historic ally.

                [...]

                Source: http://www.geocities.com/baguirov/arms1.htm
                Մեր ժողովուրդն արանց հայրենասիրութեան այն է, ինչ որ մի մարմին' առանց հոգու:

                Նժդեհ


                Please visit me at my Heralding the Rise of Russia blog: http://theriseofrussia.blogspot.com/

                Comment


                • Re: Presidential elections 2008 in Armenia

                  Well in the early years until 1991 the OMON, and the soviet army were togather attacking the armenians in artsakh.

                  I want to ask where is it that the azeris got their warplanes and modern weapons? If we didnt have any and russia gave it to us where did the azeris get theirs from? the entire soviet military base in kirovabad was left to the azeris. The russians could have dismantled that base, but left it their for the azeris and they used those weapons on us.

                  Comment


                  • Re: Presidential elections 2008 in Armenia

                    LEVON TER-PETROSYAN HRAJARVI

                    Comment


                    • Re: Presidential elections 2008 in Armenia

                      Originally posted by Armenian View Post

                      I don't care if our freedom fighters were the most valiant, most courageous men on earth, without modern armaments they would have been helpless on the battlefield against Azeris and their allies. Without modern anti-aircraft missiles Azeri warplanes would have leveled Stepanakert within a season.
                      ******************************
                      You are forgetting the stunning victory of Armenians troops under General Njdeh against the Bolsheviks. There are many other such instances of military victory of armenians in our history where the odds were against us.

                      Morality of troops is a major determinant of the outcome of military hostilities. We prooved this in Karabakh. During the Artsakh War, we faced the most difficulties fighting Russian troops who were on the side of Azerbaijanis. With politics being politics on the side, Russia allowed some serious wrongs against Armenians, and I for one will never forgive them for this.

                      Comment

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