Elections in Armenia

[Gevork]

Re: Presidential elections 2008 in Armenia

Im saying it one more time:

in the early years until 1991 the OMON, and the soviet army were togather attacking the armenians in artsakh.

I want to ask where is it that the azeris got their warplanes and modern weapons? If we didnt have any and russia gave it to us where did the azeris get theirs from? the entire soviet military base in kirovabad was left to the azeris. The russians could have dismantled that base, but left it their for the azeris and they used those weapons on us.

Armenian, if Azeris had no help and Armenians had no help they would have lost sooner than may of 1994 the early years until 1991/1992 azeris had alot of help from the "soviet" army. All the weapons they had was just left to them. So please dont say we couldnt win if it wasnt for the russians. If it wasnt for anyone we would have won much much earlier than 1994

[KarotheGreat]

Re: Presidential elections 2008 in Armenia

Im saying it one more time:

in the early years until 1991 the OMON, and the soviet army were togather attacking the armenians in artsakh.

I want to ask where is it that the azeris got their warplanes and modern weapons? If we didnt have any and russia gave it to us where did the azeris get theirs from? the entire soviet military base in kirovabad was left to the azeris. The russians could have dismantled that base, but left it their for the azeris and they used those weapons on us.

Armenian, if Azeris had no help and Armenians had no help they would have lost sooner than may of 1994 the early years until 1991/1992 azeris had alot of help from the "soviet" army. All the weapons they had was just left to them. So please dont say we couldnt win if it wasnt for the russians. If it wasnt for anyone we would have won much much earlier than 1994

First Russia is not teh same as soviets. When the SU fell apart it's leader got replaced and it took a while before evreything was running smoot. We can't blame Russia for something the Soviets did. It wasn't the Russians who let the base their but the Soviets. And they bought the weapons from Russia like they are doing now. It's politics and money there are no rules there. And without Russian weapons the war would have ended much later believe me, you can't fight without weapons.

I've got a question for you who stoped the Turks from invading Armenia in 93 and is still guarding our border? Russia did an the first soldiers to die if Turkey tries anything funny are Russian soldiers. So consider that before you say Russia didn't support us.

[Federation]

Re: Presidential elections 2008 in Armenia

First Russia is not teh same as soviets...

If Russia is not the same as the Soviets, then today's Turks are NOT the same as the Ottomans who carried out a genocide against our people.

In reality, the Soviet Union was a RUSSIAN empire, much like the Ottoman empire was a TURKISH one.

Our interests with the Russian Federation coincide today. But, it is foolish to think this will be the case forever. Russia has stabbed us in the back before, and they may very well do it again. Armenians should place their hopes in themselves, and NOT Russia (who has historically abandoned Armenia in times of need), Europe (who has historically abandoned Armenia in times of need), or any other state.

[KarotheGreat]

Re: Presidential elections 2008 in Armenia

If Russia is not the same as the Soviets, then today's Turks are NOT the same as the Ottomans who carried out a genocide against our people.

In reality, the Soviet Union was a RUSSIAN empire, much like the Ottoman empire was a TURKISH one.

Our interests with the Russian Federation coincide today. But, it is foolish to think this will be the case forever. Russia has stabbed us in the back before, and they may very well do it again. Armenians should place their hopes in themselves, and NOT Russia (who has historically abandoned Armenia in times of need), Europe (who has historically abandoned Armenia in times of need), or any other state.

It wasn't Russian beacuse the real russian who sided with the tzar suffered the most like the cozachz. and the su was a Bolshevik empire not a russian one. They destroyed the Russian empire by killing the Romanovs.

[Armenian]

Re: Presidential elections 2008 in Armenia

It wasn't Russian beacuse the real russian who sided with the tzar suffered the most like the cozachz. and the su was a Bolshevik empire not a russian one. They destroyed the Russian empire by killing the Romanovs.

Let me remind you that you are trying to talk to an idiot. Bolshevism was more "Armenian" than it was Russian. Ethnic Russians were the ones that suffered the most under Bolshevism.

[Armenian]

Re: Presidential elections 2008 in Armenia

Im saying it one more time: in the early years until 1991 the OMON, and the soviet army were togather attacking the armenians in artsakh.

This is not news.

I want to ask where is it that the azeris got their warplanes and modern weapons? If we didnt have any and russia gave it to us where did the azeris get theirs from? the entire soviet military base in kirovabad was left to the azeris. The russians could have dismantled that base, but left it their for the azeris and they used those weapons on us.

You are talking as if you are on to something. Relax, it's simple. Baku inherited the arms legally. When the Soviet Union collapsed there was a provision that required Soviet military hardware already based in the various regions to be left for the newly emerging nations. Since Azerbaijan had more Soviet era military representation within their nation they got more equipment than Armenia.

It is no secret that Azerbaijan purchases military hardware from the Russian Federation. This is natural. For sound geostrategic reasons, Moscow does not want to totally alienate Baku, they already screwed Baku with Artsakh. What's more, if Moscow did not sell arms to Baku - a slew of other nations would jump at the opportunity to sell them arms. Nevertheless, Armenia, and by extension Artsakh, is protected under the CIS umbrella, where Azerbaijan is not.

Before the Soviet Union collapsed in 1991 is it hard to see why Moscow tried to prevent Armenians from liberating Artsakh?

After the Soviet Union collapsed in 1991 is it hard to see why the Russian Federation sided with Armenians?

Understand? I feel as if I am talking to a bunch of children...

Armenian, if Azeris had no help and Armenians had no help they would have lost sooner than may of 1994 the early years until 1991/1992 azeris had alot of help from the "soviet" army. All the weapons they had was just left to them. So please dont say we couldnt win if it wasnt for the russians. If it wasnt for anyone we would have won much much earlier than 1994

What is wrong with you kids? The POINT is that even if Azeris did not inherited any military hardware from the collapsing Soviet Union, there were many-many nations around the world that would have come to their aid - Turkey, Pakistan, USA, Afghanistan, Britain, Chechnya, EU, Georgia, Saudi Arabia, Israel - to name a few...

Who was on our side before the Soviet collapse in 1991? NO ONE!!!

And we were losing Artsakh.

Who was on our side after the Soviet collapse in 1991? ONLY THE RUSSIAN FEDERATION!!!

And that was the turning point of the war in Artsakh.

Please let's end this senseless debate.

[Gevork]

Re: Presidential elections 2008 in Armenia

This is not news.



You are talking as if you are on to something. Relax, it's simple. Baku inherited the arms legally. When the Soviet Union collapsed there was a provision that required Soviet military hardware already based in the various regions to be left for the newly emerging nations. Since Azerbaijan had more Soviet era military representation within their nation they got more equipment than Armenia.

It is no secret that Azerbaijan purchases military hardware from the Russian Federation. This is natural. For sound geostrategic reasons, Moscow does not want to totally alienate Baku, they already screwed Baku with Artsakh. What's more, if Moscow did not sell arms to Baku - a slew of other nations would jump at the opportunity to sell them arms. Nevertheless, Armenia, and by extension Artsakh, is protected under the CIS umbrella, where Azerbaijan is not.

Before the Soviet Union collapsed in 1991 is it hard to see why Moscow tried to prevent Armenians from liberating Artsakh?

After the Soviet Union collapsed in 1991 is it hard to see why the Russian Federation sided with Armenians?

Understand? I feel as if I am talking to a bunch of children...



What is wrong with you kids? The POINT is that even if Azeris did not inherited any military hardware from the collapsing Soviet Union, there were many-many nations around the world that would have come to their aid - Turkey, Pakistan, USA, Afghanistan, Britain, Chechnya, EU, Georgia, Saudi Arabia, Israel - to name a few...

Who was on our side before the Soviet collapse in 1991? NO ONE!!!

And we were losing Artsakh.

Who was on our side after the Soviet collapse in 1991? ONLY THE RUSSIAN FEDERATION!!!

And that was the turning point of the war in Artsakh.

Please let's end this senseless debate.

OK you are saying the same thing as I am. My point is the only reason why azeris had more weapons then us was because of Soviet/Russian equipment that was left to them.

I do want armenia to be close with russia, but I want all armenians to know one thing we got lucky that russia sided with us. It is not because we are the great armenians and russians like us. They sided with us because the azeris and georgians were stupid. If the georgians did not abonden russia, georgia would have been what armenia is today. a "russian outpost" azerbaijan did the same thing with getting close to turkey and thus the U.S.A. so you know what guys we won by default. We were all that was left so russia picked us.

Let us not forget that to russians we as in all "Caucasians" are the same they call us "sev vor" an insulting term refering to us being harry. We as armenians are not special to russians. We are all they got left with and I remind you again we werent their first choice. So even though I want close russian armenian ties, it is not becuase I worship them as my saviors because everything they did for us they did it out of their own intrests (that is understandable) I want close ties with russia, because it is in armenia's best intrest. and you know what if tomarow someone else offers a better deal then F russia.

[skhara]

Re: Presidential elections 2008 in Armenia

Fine, you are preaching to the quire.

OK you are saying the same thing as I am. My point is the only reason why azeris had more weapons then us was because of Soviet/Russian equipment that was left to them.

I do want armenia to be close with russia, but I want all armenians to know one thing we got lucky that russia sided with us. It is not because we are the great armenians and russians like us. They sided with us because the azeris and georgians were stupid. If the georgians did not abonden russia, georgia would have been what armenia is today. a "russian outpost" azerbaijan did the same thing with getting close to turkey and thus the U.S.A. so you know what guys we won by default. We were all that was left so russia picked us.

Let us not forget that to russians we as in all "Caucasians" are the same they call us "sev vor" an insulting term refering to us being harry. We as armenians are not special to russians. We are all they got left with and I remind you again we werent their first choice. So even though I want close russian armenian ties, it is not becuase I worship them as my saviors because everything they did for us they did it out of their own intrests (that is understandable) I want close ties with russia, because it is in armenia's best intrest. and you know what if tomarow someone else offers a better deal then F russia.

It is not because we are the great armenians and russians like us.

Only the naive and the foolish believe that in the first place. There is no need to even bring it up.

[Armenian]

Re: Presidential elections 2008 in Armenia

OK you are saying the same thing as I am.

No, you were not saying the same thing as I. You simply did not know what you were saying.

My point is the only reason why azeris had more weapons then us was because of Soviet/Russian equipment that was left to them.

What do you want for this amazing realization, a medal?

I do want armenia to be close with russia, but I want all armenians to know one thing we got lucky that russia sided with us.

That's the smartest thing you have said thus far. Yes, we are extremely LUCKY that we serve Moscow's interests in the Caucasus. Imagine an Armenia in the Caucasus without the Russian factor....

Yet, we have yahoos and foo-foos trying to destroy this "luck" by attacking Armenian's relationship with Russia. An idiot here said "close relation but not subordination"... What a crock of shit!!! Every single nation on earth is subordinate to one power or another, including the USA as a matter of fact. Our tiny, impoverished, landlocked, resource-less nation surrounded by enemies is going to 'dictate' terms of friendship with Moscow?!?!?! In the Caucasus?!?!?!

I'm telling you our nation has turned into a bunch of degenerate morons.

Thank God we have in Yerevan a handful of cutthroat, strongmen in power today serving their masters in Moscow...

It is not because we are the great armenians and russians like us. They sided with us because the azeris and georgians were stupid.

I see you deserve another medal for your astute observation here. I also see you that you haven't read any of my commentaries regarding Russian-Armenian relations...

If the georgians did not abonden russia, georgia would have been what armenia is today. a "russian outpost" azerbaijan did the same thing with getting close to turkey and thus the U.S.A. so you know what guys we won by default.

If Russia had good relations with Turkey, Azerbaijan and Georgia there most probably would not have been an Armenia today. Best case scenario, Artsakh would have been under Azeri rule; Armenia's total population would have dropped to several hundred thousand; efforts to promote Armenian Genocide recognition would have been canceled; Yerevan would be bending over to Ankara culturally, politically and economically...

We were all that was left so russia picked us.

I'm impressed. Another medal.

Let us not forget that to russians we as in all "Caucasians" are the same they call us "sev vor" an insulting term refering to us being harry.

Many "Caucasians" brought that title upon themselves. And how are Russians seen to by us Armenians? Have you heard the following Armenian saying about Russians?

Երկիրը դուզ է, մարդը խոզ է, կինը բոզ է...

The popular saying above was said by Armenians about Russians many-many years ago, before Caucasians in Russia were called black asses, before there were skinheads in Russia...

We as armenians are not special to russians.

You get another medal...

We are all they got left with and I remind you again we werent their first choice.

They did not have a "choice," as soon as the Soviet Union collapsed they naturally had to be on our side because of the pan-Turkic threat. And now they have to be on our side because of the NATO threat in the Caucasus.

So even though I want close russian armenian ties, it is not becuase I worship them as my saviors because everything they did for us they did it out of their own intrests (that is understandable) I want close ties with russia, because it is in armenia's best intrest.

{Applause}

and you know what if tomarow someone else offers a better deal then F russia.

That's pretty stupid, Gevork. The USA and the EU are more-or-less offering us a better "deal". They say we will be free, democratic and prosperous once we join them and eliminate Russian and Iranian influences in the Caucasus. So, following your logic, why not take that "deal" from the West and "F" Russia?

I suggest you read my many comments regarding this topic several times and contemplate on it. It might eventually sink in.

[Gevork]

Re: Presidential elections 2008 in Armenia

Armenian, du karkin xosa esh esh mi xosa!!! tsaxrelov "here is a medal, another medal" demint lakot chi haskacar?!!!


Yegrortnel du shat pag mitk martes!! du ches uzum hayastan@ achi uzumes uxaki chokac goiucun unena


Lik@ mart ka banderum vor es ishxanucun@ koxela tox azati yev joxovurt@ tesni ov en inch unen aselu. gites incha es ishxanucun@ rusi b o zna!!


you say we are landlocked small resourcell country well minus the landlocked part you just describes Israel. I think they are doing failry well dont you think?


We are were loyal to russia, but russia is merely taking advantage of us our government should grow some ba lls and demand some favours from russia.