Elections in Armenia

[Armenian]

Re: Presidential elections 2008 in Armenia

Untrue. The "struggle" in Yerevan is absolutely NOT between Artsakh armenians and Yerevan Armenians, and I'd suggest you put a stop to such nonsence.

I know. I do understand you. For many years prior to the current crisis in Yerevan I was in denial as well. It's primarily our pride, or fear, that does not allow us to face reality. However, I am no longer able to ignore, or wish away, the hard reality that exists on the ground currently. The hard reality is that there is tension between Armenians of Armenia and Armenians of Artsakh.

I suggest you open your eyes and accept this hard reality. Wishful thinking does not constitute reality, nor does it make bad things go away. I have never claimed that such sentiments are prevalent amongst a majority of Armenians. However, there is significant anti-Artsakh rhetoric within Armenia today, as well as amongst Armenians of Los Angeles. I don't know how much contact you have with Hayastantsi Armenians or how often to visit Yerevan, but anti-Artsakhtsi sentiments amongst a certain significant portion of Armenian society have been brewing for several years now and I have seen it and heard it first hand.

Yes, I agree that a majority of those who want Artsakh Armenians out of Armenia, or don't want anything to do with the Artsakh Republic are those who do not understand politics or are those who are deeply disgruntled with the government for various socio-economic reasons. However, this does not change the 'reality' that their attacks are against Artsakhtsi Armenians. I am not interested in their reasons for this type of behavior, and I am definitely not interested in your faulty assessment, I am simply interested in the well being of the Armenian Republic.

Any way, with that said, I have yet to come across any Armenian-no matter how bad their situation- who would speak about "why do we even need Artsakh?" On the contrary, no matter how bad their situation may be, Artsakh is the source of inspiration and pride for the Armenian citizens. Likewise, most Armenian citizens are also against open border with Turks inspite of the problems caused by blockade.

Wake up. The false notion that if we take care of the Artsakh problem we can open borders with Turkey and improve our economy is quite widespread in Armenia and the diaspora. And during the past several years I had come across quite a few individuals in Armenia that said Armenia would be better off without Artsakh. I never took these types of individuals seriously because I thought that they were not represented by a political entity. I thought they were isolated voices in society. Well, needless to say, things are very different now.

You know what? What has been occurring in Armenia has been very upsetting for me. So, I have no desire to argue with someone who seems to be here simply to argue with me. Try me on an other day. Alright? In the meanwhile, I suggest you pay close attention to the anti-Artsakh rhetoric coming out of the Levon camp and read the following two articles - before you continue 'your' foolish nonsense.

Internal Bleeding: Crisis has turned “Armenians” against “Karabakhis”:

http://www.armenianow.com/?action=viewArticle&IID=1180&CID=2867&AID=2922&lng=eng#comments

Echo of March 1 in Karabakh: The events in Armenia are viewed in Stepanakert exclusively in terms of Karabakh’s future.

http://www.armenianow.com/?action=viewArticle&AID=2918&CID=2867&IID=1180&lng=eng

[Federation]

Re: Presidential elections 2008 in Armenia

However, there is significant anti-Artsakh rhetoric within Armenia today, as well as amongst Armenians of Los Angeles.

Can you site examples of these anti-Artsakh rhetoric? who said it and what did they say? If there are such individuals, they need to be exposed. and please, don't site anynonmous individuals.

As regards Los Angeles, there is a program called "nor serund" that is run by Beyruta-hyer and they constantly speak out against robert and serj. Now what would Beyrutcy's have against Karabakcy's?

Anti- Robert and anti-serj talk cannot be equaled to Anti-karabakhcy rhetoric.

Unless you've got some REAL names and actual proof of anti-Artsakh remarks made by them, don't generalize it. To tell you the truth, I'm sencing some "anti-Hayastancy" feelings from you. Why are you generalizing "hayastancy" this and that? and tell me, how does that make you any better than the people you claim are generalizing "artsakhcy" this and that?

The proof that you are dead wrong is that even Levon, in numerous public speeches during this recent elections, has repeatedly said and reassured to Armenian citizens that Artsakh will and must remain in Armenian hands. Do you interpret this as anti-Artsakh rhetoric?

Had your claims that armenians are of the opinion that ""why do we even need Artsakh?", Levon would not make those declarations. Why? Levon knows full well what catastrophic effect that will have on this ratings as the citizens of armenia would not stand for it.

Wake up. The false notion that if we take care of the Artsakh problem we can open borders with Turkey and improve our economy is quite widespread in Armenia and the diaspora.

That is primarily the view point of Levon and the HHsH. According to various polls, including US gallup poll, most Armenians are against an open border with Turkey despite economic problems caused by blockade. A much, much greater percentage of Armenian citizens are of the opinion that "we won the land at the cost of blood and are not giving it back." If you are claiming that this is not true, then you are a lying through your teeth.

Once again, the proof is in Levon's speeches. Even he does not dare to speak about giving up Karabakh.

And during the past several years I had come across quite a few individuals in Armenia that said Armenia would be better off without Artsakh. I never took these types of individuals seriously because I thought that they were not represented by a political entity. I thought they were isolated voices in society. Well, needless to say, things are very different now.

I don't know who you've been talking to in Armenia, but I've never come across such individuals. Who were these people? Do you mind sharing?
There is some "historian" "armenian" named Ronald Suny. This diasporan "armenian" gave a speech in Armenia, and said that he would like to see the azerbaijani flag waving in Stepanakert. The Hayastancy's nearly cracked his head open. He would not get out alive from there if it weren't for security. Aha, qo "spyura hyer@".

[Armanen]

Re: Presidential elections 2008 in Armenia

Any people in the capital city always think they are a little better than the people from other parts. The only place I haven't seen this is in the u.s.

To say that there is a huge widening rift between Hayastanci's and Artsakhci's is an overstatement, at the same time there is some animosity within various sectors of the two communities. One can find this in the Diaspora too.

[Armenian]

Re: Presidential elections 2008 in Armenia

To say that there is a huge widening rift between Hayastanci's and Artsakhtsi's is an overstatement...

No matter how you may want to formulated it, you can't escape the fact that there is today a serious rift between Artsakh Armenians and a significant portion of Armenia's population. This does not mean anti-Artsakhtsi sentiments are shared by a majority of the Armenian people. The reality is that a majority of our people are apolitical. And please stop with the sociological excuses, I don't give a rat's ass about the excuses. They are pointless in this situation. When the security of the state is at stake the excuses don't matter. What matters is recognizing that a serious problem exists. A serious problem exists today in Armenia. I have seen and heard way too many Armenians wishing Serzh Sargsyan's and Robert Kocharyan's death. I have seen and heard too many Armenians calling Artsakh Armenian, Turks. I have seen too many Armenians blaming Artsakh for their economic woes. By not recognizing that there is a problem you can't take measures against it.

[Lernakan]

Re: Presidential elections 2008 in Armenia

Gazprom offers post to Armenian ex-president - report

YEREVAN (Thomson Financial) - Armenia's ex-president Robert Kocharian, who left office this week, has been offered a post as vice-president of Russian gas giant Gazprom, the Aravot daily newspaper reported Friday.
The offer by Gazprom, which controls strategic Armenian pipelines, 'has not yet received a response and is still hanging in the air,' the newspaper wrote, citing a report from the PanArmenian Network news service quoting Russian sources.
Kocharian was replaced on Wednesday at the end of two five-year terms by his prime minister, Serzh Sarkisian, after controversial polls marred by violence and vote-rigging allegations.
Speculation has mounted about Kocharian's plans after the 53-year-old told reporters in December he had no plans to be 'Armenia's youngest pensioner.'
Ex-Soviet Armenia and Russia maintained strong ties during Kocharian's tenure.

With the Armenian government, Gazprom jointly owns ArmRosGazprom, which controls natural gas pipelines feeding Russian gas to Armenia and owns the Armenian section of a pipeline feeding Iranian gas to the country.

In January, Gazprom's banking arm, Gazprombank, bought 80 percent of Areximbank, one of Armenia's largest retail banks.

http://www.forbes.com/afxnewslimited/feeds/afx/2008/04/11/afx4879088.html

[alter ego]

Re: Presidential elections 2008 in Armenia

ՄԱՐՏԻ ՄԵԿԻ 9-ՐԴ ԶՈՀԸ 19-ԱՄՅԱ ԶԻՆԾԱՌԱՅՈՂ ՏԻԳՐԱՆՆ Է
Նախօրեին, ժամը 18.30-ի սահմաններում պրոֆ. Միքայելյանի անվան հիվանդանոցում մահացել է 19-ամյա զինծառայող Տիգրան Աբգարյանը, ով վիրավորվել էր մարտի մեկի զանգվածային անկարգությունների ժամանակ: Նա ունեցել է պարանոցային 6-րդ, 7-րդ ողների հրազենային-բեկորային կոտրվածքներ, իսկ վիրահատության ժամանակ պարզվել է, որ վնասվել է նաև ողնուղեղը: Տ. Աբգարյանը 42 օր շարունակ մնաց Միքայելյանի վերակենդանացման բաժանմունքում, նրա վիճակը գնահատվում էր ծայրահեղ ծանր: Նշենք, որ մարտի մեկի զանգվածային անկարգությունների հետևանքով զոհերի թիվը պաշտոնապես հասավ իննի: Այսպիսով, ԱՆ համակարգի բուժհաստատություններում մնաց 4 տուժած քաղաքացի, որից մեկը ևս Արմենիա ԲԿ-ի վերակենդանացման բաժանմունքում է գտնվում:

[alter ego]

Re: Presidential elections 2008 in Armenia

When are they going to bring levon effendi finally to the justice? How many more innocent victims are needed?

[Armenian]

Re: Presidential elections 2008 in Armenia

Very interesting news, very significant. The Armenian president serving in one of the most powerful and most influential organizations on earth. Russia trusting an influential Armenian within its very sensitive national security apparatus. I would be very pleased if this does indeed happen. Are there any other former presidents in the organization? I am sure Turks and Azeris will love this news. I know for sure the street whores in the Levon camp will start foaming at the mouth over this news. The asswipes in question will definitely not treat this as good news, they will see this development as a disaster and an embarrassment for Armenia. They will start claiming that Kocharyan sold the Armenia to Russia so that he can secure his career after he leaves the presidency. Just wait and see...

Gazprom offers post to Armenian ex-president - report

YEREVAN (Thomson Financial) - Armenia's ex-president Robert Kocharian, who left office this week, has been offered a post as vice-president of Russian gas giant Gazprom, the Aravot daily newspaper reported Friday.
The offer by Gazprom, which controls strategic Armenian pipelines, 'has not yet received a response and is still hanging in the air,' the newspaper wrote, citing a report from the PanArmenian Network news service quoting Russian sources.
Kocharian was replaced on Wednesday at the end of two five-year terms by his prime minister, Serzh Sarkisian, after controversial polls marred by violence and vote-rigging allegations.
Speculation has mounted about Kocharian's plans after the 53-year-old told reporters in December he had no plans to be 'Armenia's youngest pensioner.'
Ex-Soviet Armenia and Russia maintained strong ties during Kocharian's tenure.

With the Armenian government, Gazprom jointly owns ArmRosGazprom, which controls natural gas pipelines feeding Russian gas to Armenia and owns the Armenian section of a pipeline feeding Iranian gas to the country.

In January, Gazprom's banking arm, Gazprombank, bought 80 percent of Areximbank, one of Armenia's largest retail banks.

http://www.forbes.com/afxnewslimited...fx4879088.html

[Armanen]

Re: Presidential elections 2008 in Armenia

No matter how you may want to formulated it, you can't escape the fact that there is today a serious rift between Artsakh Armenians and a significant portion of Armenia's population. This does not mean anti-Artsakhtsi sentiments are shared by a majority of the Armenian people. The reality is that a majority of our people are apolitical. And please stop with the sociological excuses, I don't give a rat's ass about the excuses. They are pointless in this situation. When the security of the state is at stake the excuses don't matter. What matters is recognizing that a serious problem exists. A serious problem exists today in Armenia. I have seen and heard way too many Armenians wishing Serzh Sargsyan's and Robert Kocharyan's death. I have seen and heard too many Armenians calling Artsakh Armenian, Turks. I have seen too many Armenians blaming Artsakh for their economic woes. By not recognizing that there is a problem you can't take measures against it.

All of this was true more or less prior to the events of March 1st, I had heard anti Artsakhi statements in 2006, not as bad as now but I'd heard it. Maybe you had too, but I don't remember you making a post about it then. Robert and Serge have never been too popular, especially when Serge decided to gamble away state money. In the long run I don't care for either as they are not nationalist enough for me, but they have been pragmatic, which is the least I expect from any president, so I support them until the time is ripe for a true nationalist/tseghakron leader to emerge.

That being said, Artsakh is part of Armenia and will remain so, thus I won't allow anyone near me to either demonize Armenians from Armenia or Artsakh, this works against our national interest, it breaks up our badly needed unity.
Armenian v. Armenian negative statements need to be countered, therefore I comend you and others for working against it. Aprek!

[Armanen]

Re: Presidential elections 2008 in Armenia

Are there any other former presidents in the organization?

Yes, Gerhard Schröder has been since 2006

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerhard_Schr%C3%B6der#Gazprom

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2006/apr2006/schr-a14.shtml