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**Artsakh** · 06-26-2008, 01:36 PM

Re: Presidential elections 2008 in Armenia

Originally posted by Armenian View Post

Disregard the hetamnats geghtsi. What he is referring to is an 'interpretation' of a comment that Sargsyan's supposedly made recently in Moscow.

Lsi Ay Arab BBoozZZZi bala, herik vor do im klirits kaxves.

Yerp vor kez hachatsretsin, en vaxt k@ hachas, eghav ay manyak?

What else can be said about someone who is online 24/7 posting on forums. You need some professional help, you looser.

**Artsakh** · 06-26-2008, 01:40 PM

Re: Presidential elections 2008 in Armenia

Originally posted by KarotheGreat View Post

Artsakh I've searched many Armenian news sites and none of them has this news posted except Armenianlibery not even hetq. So i'll believe this when more newsagencies post it.

I saw the whole thing from Armenian channels from Armenia, including state tv. I've been reading Armenialiberty for many years now, and I have got to say, inspite of who is beind it in terms of funding it, it is the most unbiased, most independent, and most accurate source of Armenian news.

I dare you to point out any faults of Armenialiberty, you cannot.

**Artsakh** · 06-26-2008, 02:11 PM

Re: Presidential elections 2008 in Armenia

Originally posted by KarotheGreat View Post

Artsakh I've searched many Armenian news sites and none of them has this news posted except Armenianlibery not even hetq. So i'll believe this when more newsagencies post it.

What is there to look into? Isn't it an established fact that there indeed was an Armenian Genocide? Haven't credible historians the world over already established that the events constituted genocide? When you agree to "look into" something that has already been determined, you are putting into question whether a genocide really occured.

Also, lets not forget, this proposal was made by Turkey, the master of diplomacy, and Erdogan said that the Turkish government would accept any conclusion reached by the commission (meaning that if the commission decided the events were genocide, the government of Turkey would accept it as such). Does the Armenia government under Serj Sarkissian actually think that Turkey has ANY intention whatsoever of accepting the Armenian Genocide? Either the Serje Administration is extremely stupid, or extremely naieve. Either way, serje is not qualified to lead the Armenian republic. This is almost laughable, but moreso cry-able to see that our country is headed by such incompetent, anti-national thugs.

And don't forget, Serje's precondition to setting up this commission was for open borders with Turkey. In effect, the government of Serje Sarkisyan is prepared to cast a doubt on whether the genocide occured in exchange for open borders with the Turks. And all this is interesting because you don't hear any noise from the dashnaks-who have in the past made so much noise against open borders, I'm not even mentioning their silence on Serje's acceptance of the humiliating commission that was proposed by turkey.

Like a man, Ter Pedrosyan has stated his position: "Armenia must have normal relations with all the neighbors." For this, Levon-under whom Karabakh was liberated, under whom 30,000 Azeri Turks were destroyed- has been called "pro-Turk", but when Serje does the same thing, and goes one step further and puts the genocide under question, those same people all of the sudden loose their tongues, there is only silence. Think about it.

And another thing I'll add about Ter Pedrosyan is that he's a brialliant politican, a true statesman. A president must be just that. His job must be to secure all the basics for its citizens, and make the country bloosom.

There is no such thing as a "nationalist politican". A true nationalist knowns no politics, and cannot be "politically correct." In other words, a true nationalist equals a failed politician, a failed diplomat. Today's government which plays the "patriotic" and "tseghakron" card is all a show.

**KarotheGreat** · 06-27-2008, 05:58 AM

Re: Presidential elections 2008 in Armenia

Originally posted by Artsakh View Post

What is there to look into? Isn't it an established fact that there indeed was an Armenian Genocide? Haven't credible historians the world over already established that the events constituted genocide? When you agree to "look into" something that has already been determined, you are putting into question whether a genocide really occured.

Also, lets not forget, this proposal was made by Turkey, the master of diplomacy, and Erdogan said that the Turkish government would accept any conclusion reached by the commission (meaning that if the commission decided the events were genocide, the government of Turkey would accept it as such). Does the Armenia government under Serj Sarkissian actually think that Turkey has ANY intention whatsoever of accepting the Armenian Genocide? Either the Serje Administration is extremely stupid, or extremely naieve. Either way, serje is not qualified to lead the Armenian republic. This is almost laughable, but moreso cry-able to see that our country is headed by such incompetent, anti-national thugs.

And don't forget, Serje's precondition to setting up this commission was for open borders with Turkey. In effect, the government of Serje Sarkisyan is prepared to cast a doubt on whether the genocide occured in exchange for open borders with the Turks. And all this is interesting because you don't hear any noise from the dashnaks-who have in the past made so much noise against open borders, I'm not even mentioning their silence on Serje's acceptance of the humiliating commission that was proposed by turkey.

Like a man, Ter Pedrosyan has stated his position: "Armenia must have normal relations with all the neighbors." For this, Levon-under whom Karabakh was liberated, under whom 30,000 Azeri Turks were destroyed- has been called "pro-Turk", but when Serje does the same thing, and goes one step further and puts the genocide under question, those same people all of the sudden loose their tongues, there is only silence. Think about it.

And another thing I'll add about Ter Pedrosyan is that he's a brialliant politican, a true statesman. A president must be just that. His job must be to secure all the basics for its citizens, and make the country bloosom.

There is no such thing as a "nationalist politican". A true nationalist knowns no politics, and cannot be "politically correct." In other words, a true nationalist equals a failed politician, a failed diplomat. Today's government which plays the "patriotic" and "tseghakron" card is all a show.

show us other sources we got only Armenian liberty and your word about it nothing else to believe. because the rest of the news agencies are silent. Why is that? And I thought you were against Levon lol.

**Artsakh** · 06-27-2008, 08:19 AM

Re: Presidential elections 2008 in Armenia

Originally posted by KarotheGreat View Post

show us other sources we got only Armenian liberty and your word about it nothing else to believe. because the rest of the news agencies are silent. Why is that? And I thought you were against Levon lol.

Karo Axper, don't you get channels from Armenia? The rest of the news agencies are not silent. It has been reported by all the other news agencies. I am against Serje sarkissian. I have spoken out against him and criticized him years before it was declared that he was even going to run for president. He is an embarrassasment to our proud nation. He was a failure as national security minister (during which october 27 occurred), he is a degenerate gambler, and a failed politician.

Any how, here it is from OTHER sources:
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
SOURCE: ArmInfo

ARMENIAN NATIONAL MOVEMENT IS PUZZLED IN VIEW OF RA PRESIDENT'S STATEMENT ON ARMENIAN- TURKISH RELATIONS

ArmInfo
2008-06-26 11:30:00

The Armenian National Movement, headed by the first President of
Armenia Levon Ter-Petrosyan, spread a statement today expressing
bewilderment in view of the statements of RA President Serzh Sargsyan
made in Moscow on June 23 concerning the Armenian-Turkish relations.

To recall, RA President Serzh Sargsyan said on June 23 at the meeting
with representatives of the Armenian community of Moscow that he
is going to invite his Turkish counterpart Abdullah Gul to the
football match in Yerevan. S. Sargsyan emphasized unambiguousness
of Armenia's position according to which "there should be no closed
borders between the neighbouring countries in 21 Century". However,
having recalled that the Turkish party offers to form a commission to
study the historical facts, RA president said that Yerevan does not
object to creation of such a commission "but after the borders between
our states are open, otherwise, it may become a way of speculation
by this problem".

The Armenian National Movement's statement, received by ArmInfo today,
says that S. Sargsyan has become the first president of Armenia who
officially agreed to Turkey's proposal to question the fact of the
Genocide. We condemn this dangerous statement of S. Sargsyan which will be undoubtedly responded by the people of Armenia and the Armenians
of the whole world>, the statement says.

http://groong.usc.edu/news/msg236247.html

SOURCE: PanArmenian

WILL THE PRESIDENT OF TURKEY COME TO YEREVAN?

PanARMENIAN.Net
24.06.2008 GMT+04:00

Turkey has indeed become the hostage of Baku, as well as its interests,
its energy supplies and nobody knows how long it will still last.

The announcement that the President of Armenia Serge Sargsyan made in
Moscow, may change the situation in the region. The matter concerns
the possible normalization of the Armenian-Turkish relations, which
is necessary to the USA, EU and Turkey itself. This may be the very
decisive point in the negotiations with the EU. For the USA the safety
of the pipelines is also very important, since Azerbaijan and Turkey
are not able to do that.

/PanARMENIAN.Net/ During the meeting with the Armenian community
in Russia Serge Sargsyan announced that Armenia keeps up to one
clear point of view in the issue of establishing relations with
Turkey: in the 21st century two neighboring countries may not be
separated by closed borders. According to the President of Armenia,
the Turkish party suggests creating a commission, which shall study
the historical facts. "We are not against such a commission, but
only when the borders between two countries are open. Otherwise,
it may become a good way of abusing and prolonging the issue for
long years," he mentioned. "In the near future I intend to take new
measures in my course of establishing relations between Armenia and
Turkey. Most probably I will invite the President of Turkey Abdullah
Gul to Yerevan to watch the football match between our countries
together," announced Serge Sargsyan. It is worth reminding that the
President of Turkey was among the first ones who congratulated Serge
Sargsyan with his appointment on the post of the President of Armenia.

However, it is still too early to speak about any approximate date
of opening the Armenian-Turkish borders. But the fact that the
President of Armenia is open to the dialogue is already good. In
fact, the recommendation of the US State Department may be realized
in the beginning of the dialogue. But as the Armenian party has
always said - there must be no preconditions. The Turkish party has
many of these preconditions: the recognition of the Moscow Treaty
of 1921, the Karabakh Conflict and the Armenian Genocide in the
Ottoman Empire. As it is known to everyone, the Armenian party has no
preconditions. Naturally, Armenia will continue being the guarantor
of the safety of the people of Nagorno-Karabakh and will achieve
the international recognition of the Armenian Genocide. Turkey must
understand that it is easier to recognize the Genocide than spend
millions and blackmail the entire world. And in this issue Ankara is
standing on the way of Azerbaijan. One may still understand Baku:
in the absence of real allies in the issue of the Nagorno-Karabakh
conflict resolution, she counts on Turkey, as a country which is
more or less closer with her views. And as it has already been said
more than once, Turkey has indeed become the hostage of Baku, as
well as its interests, its energy supplies and nobody knows how long
it will still last, but it is rather interesting what Azerbaijan's
reaction will be if Abdullah Gul really comes to Yerevan. If the
President of Turkey really wants normalization of the relations and
gives a positive answer to Sarsyan's invitation, this will be a great
break. On the other hand, this kind of invitations are usually given
only when there is a preliminary agreement at least on the level of
the Foreign Ministries of both countries and necessarily through the
mediation of a third party, which in this case is the USA. Russia does
not participate in this dialogue, because she does not control the
situation and as it seems does not want the opening of the borders,
having all the reasonable fears that this will drive Armenia apart
from Russia and the Russian influence.

As for the recognition of the Armenian-Turkish, and also earlier the
Soviet-Turkish borders, here things are a bit more complicated. On
May 30, 1953 the government of the USSR made an official announcement
about the absence of territorial claims towards Turkey, having the
Kars region, Erzurum and Surmalin district on mind. The USSR broke
down and now the independent Armenia is not the assignee of the
Arm.SSR, but of the First Republic of Armenia and consequently, has
no responsibilities towards the treaties and agreements of the USSR.

During the hearings in the US Congress Assistant Secretary, Bureau of
European and Eurasian Daniel Fried announced, "The USA thinks that
a part of the problem solution is opening of the Armenian-Turkish
borders. The existing status-quo is no good for either of the
countries. The USA assists the dialogue and the cooperation between
the Armenian and the Turkish people through conferences, meetings and
program exchange. Establishment of the relations between Armenia and
Turkey is a very sensitive issue. Turkey must put up with the black
pages of her history; mass killings and deportations of the Armenian
people in the Ottoman Empire. This is not easy, like it was not easy
for the USA when she took her time to recognize the black pages of
her history. In her turn Armenia must be ready for the recognition of
the borders and not to come up with territorial claims towards Turkey
and must suggest constructive approach to the efforts of Turkey,"
said Fried. The interesting thing in this announcement is that Fried
did not mention anything at all about Turkey's possible participation
in the regulations of Nagorno-Karabakh conflict.

According to the US Charge d�Affaires to Armenia Joseph Pennington,
after the presidential elections in Armenia some icebreaking has been
noticed between the countries and this may become a very good start
for both parties to find a way for compromise. "For reaching certain
progress in the two-sided relations the official Yerevan and Ankara
must cooperate, and the USA will only assist the establishment of
the relations," emphasized Joseph Pennington.

--Boundary_(ID_u9trSNqXh6VfYF3MMrfuyA)--

http://groong.usc.edu/news/msg236270.html

**Armenian** · 06-27-2008, 08:25 AM

Re: Presidential elections 2008 in Armenia

Get involved. Fax or email the following to various embassies and/or organization.

*******************************

Levon Ter Petrosian Must be Punished!

Levon Ter Petrosian petrosianakan OV A CHOPAN@?: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UJg_tnX4Rjk

The treasonous criminal Levon Ter Petrosian and his team of bloody usurpers need to be punished for their crimes against the Armenian state. We expect to see Levon Ter Petrosian and his team imprisoned for life, exiled or executed for their crimes. President Robert Kocharyan waited far too long to crack down the masses of absolute idiots pursuing suicidal political agendas. If Armenia is to be respected as a viable nation serious about protecting its national interests, every single one of the organizers of last weekend's failed coup d'etat need to be imprisoned, deported or executed for treason against the state. There can be no sane excuses for supporting a treasonous criminal like the turkophile Levon Ter Petrosian, especially after having observed eight years of his corrupt and ruinous presidency. If the Armenian electorate was dissatisfied with Serzh Sargsyan they should have given their support to any of the other presidential candidates - not Levon Ter Petrosian. Sadly, a significant portion of the Armenian nation today has revealed severe political immaturity and social irresponsibility. Consequently, a significant portion of Armenia�s citizenry has revealed that they are unable to govern themselves via democratic means.

Nevertheless, we expect the Armenian state to:

Ruthlessly crush the bloody rebellion and severely punish its leadership.

Summon the Russian FSB to help hunt down and eliminate anyone involved in the funding and/or the organization of this attempted coup d'etat.

Shut-down western funded anti-state media outlets such as A1 Plus, Hetq, Armenianow and Radio Liberty.

Subject to closure various NGOs in Yerevan that are engaged in anti-state activities.

Deport foreign agents such as Onnik Krokorian and Richard Giragosian back to where they came from.

Deport the brainless pig Raffi Hovanisian back to his stinking hole in California.

Up hold the rule of law and order in Armenia.

Protect at all costs the territorial integrity of Armenia and Artsakh.

Protect at all costs Armenia's alliance with the Russian Federation.

Serzh Sargsyan's presidency will be judged by whether or not he is able to eradicate the HHSh party within the Armenian Republic. The HHSh party is a cancer in Armenia serving American and Turkish interests. This dangerous cancer needs to be eradicated as soon as possible.

Signed,

Concerned Armenians

**********************************

The following individuals are the main ringleaders of bloody coup d'etat attempt in Yerevan. After what they did, at the very least, these bastards have to be executed, or jailed for life, for their crimes against the Armenian state. These types of filthy criminals are a cancer in the nation, they have to be eliminated now before they are able to pose a serious security risk to the republic.

Levon Petrosian

Alexander Arzumanian

Aram Sargsyan

Khachatur Sukiasian

Nikol Pashinian

Stepan Demirchian

Manvel Grigoryan

I strongly advise you all to watch the following news report from Yerevan in its entirety:

WHO IS LEVON PETROSIAN?

OVE LEVON TER PETROSIAN: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_AQMEEjOBpk

Levon Ter Petrosian HAYRE TURK? VAY VAY!! DAVAJAN LEVONIG!!: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m4c8T...eature=related

Very important television interview with Armen Ayvazian, please watch both parts:

Մարտի 21-ի Հանրային ալիքի �Եվրապոլիս� հաղորդման հյուրերն են, քաղաքագիտության դոկտոր Արմեն Այվազյանը, քաղաքագետ Սուրեն Զոլյանը, հոգեբան Ալբերտ Նալչաջյանը: Վարող Արթուր Սահակյան: Մաս 1-ին և մաս 2-րդ: http://blog.ararat-center.org/?p=11

**Armenian** · 06-27-2008, 08:26 AM

Re: Presidential elections 2008 in Armenia

And don't forget to express your thoughts/concerns/indignation about one of the best loved American agents in Armenia, Mr. horse face himself, John Hughes -

Open letter to John Hughes:

Stop censoring me, John. As a good American you should be giving me my "freedom of speech," even if I use it to call you a foreign agent. Realize that many have that opinion about you anyway. Also realize that your manipulative crap won't work with Armenians. You are not dealing with some sub-Saharan African tribe nor are you dealing with ragheads. Disregarding the self-hating vermin and young ignorant ones in our society, Armenians in general realize that entities such as ArmeniaNow and Radio Liberty are political/propaganda tools Washington DC uses to meddle into the internal affairs of vulnerable nations such as Armenia. Washington DC hopes to drive a wedge between Yerevan and Moscow and it hopes to turn the masses against the struggle for Nagorno Karabagh. So, take your US State Department agenda and get your ass back to Hicks-ville Alabama. You have overstayed your visit in Armenia.

Armenians also realize that accepting financial aid from the West, especially from Washington DC, is like taking money from the mafia; once you do they own you. Armenia needs to learn to do without your western handouts. Officials in Washington DC should concern themselves with keeping their house in order instead. The nation with the most blood on its hands today is the USA. The nation with the most corrupt public officials today is the USA. The nation that is most hated and feared today is the USA. So, who the fuck gave you criminals the right to judge any nation? Keep your financial aids (which are nothing but legal forms of bribes) to yourselves. And take your deceiving and destructive concepts of freedom and democracy and shove it up your filthy asses.

You will never succeed in breaking Armenia away from Artsakh. You will never succeed in breaking Armenia away from Russia. Your street petty whores in the Levon camp were soundly defeated. Face it, you lost. Now get your ugly ass out of our country.

The fledgling Armenian Republic needs political evolution - not an artificial revolution. Levon and his treasonous team of usurpers need to be hanged for their crimes against the Armenian nation. Levon supporters, be it individuals or organizations, need to be persecuted out of existence.

Sometimes accurate articles appear in ArmeniaNow because you want to be seen as a non-partisan news outlet. However, ArmeniaNow's agenda, as well as that of Radio Liberty's, is quite obvious - you strictly follow the dictates of the US State Department. The likes of you are sent to vulnerable nations to manipulate the disgruntled public's sentiments. In the Armenian case, it's no secret that you want Yerevan to breakaway from Russia and Iran and you want Armenia to bend over for Turks and Azeris. Your agenda is primarily to exploit central Asian oil/gas and undermining the Russian Federation and Iran in the region.

Sadly, due to Armenia's domestic problems, you have found willing partners in the treasonous Levon camp and that is why you are blowing Levon's trumpet today. And that is why the Armenian authorities today are left with no choice but to crackdown hard on Levon supporters and their western backers.

Moreover, we do realize that you are not alone, John. You have a lot of help - Richard Giragosian, Onnik Krikorian, Van Krikorian come to mind, to name a few of the obvious ones. We also realize that you operate in a vast, well organized and well funded network under the guise of promoting human rights and democracy in nations where the West has financial and/or geopolitical interests. In the 60s and 70s CIA agents posed as Peace Corp volunteers and backpackers/travelers. Today they are internet bloggers and champions of "freedom and democracy".

One would think as "freedom loving" westerners the first place you should be promoting your noble agendas are within nations that are your closest allies, who also happen to be the worst offenders in the practice of human rights and democracy - namely, Turkey, Israel, Azerbaijan, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Egypt, Albania, etc.

In final analysis, however, the fault lies with us Armenians. The likes of you have an agenda to perform, it's natural for it's your job. The problem is that ignorant ones in our society enable you to carryout your agenda. Thus, I can't blame you, John, for doing what you are told to do. However, I CAN blame our people for being sheeple.

Incidentally, John, since you have been very concerned and involved in Armenian society and politics, would you be willing to release your personal tax returns in the United States for the past several years for public viewing? Would you also be willing to subject yourself to an in-depth background investigation? I'm really curious. Are you truly this concerned about Armenia or are you simply doing your job? By that I mean; leaving sunny California and hicks-ville Alabama for a foul dictatorship in Caucasus like Armenia?! Heck, you must be either a saint or a demon. Anyway John, I know the answers to these questions, I just want to hear them from you...

**KarotheGreat** · 06-27-2008, 08:35 AM

Re: Presidential elections 2008 in Armenia

So what has he done than talk, he says first open the border and we'll see if there will be a commision. He wants to open the border that's his first worry

**Artsakh** · 06-27-2008, 08:37 AM

Re: Presidential elections 2008 in Armenia

Check out this latest news: "Armenia's recognition of its existing border with Turkey." You know, during Levon Ter Pedrosyan's rule, Turkey tried to get Armenia to reaffirm the treaty of kars (in other words, for Armenia to recongize they existing border with Turkey). LTP rejected that. Now, this seems to be back on the table. And these latest developments involving Serje's crawling up the butt of Turkey is no coincidence: the illegitimate "president" Serje will do any thing to seek approval and legitimize himself- even if it means casting a doubt on the genocide, even if it means releaving ourselves of Kars and Ardahan--and mark my words, I think that's exactly where we are headed under Serje. May god allow for his quick resignation and removal from power.

And when this Bryza Barks, does he think before he barks? IT IS TURKEY THAT REFUSES TO RECOGNIZE THE REPUBLIC OF ARMENIA'S EXISTANCE. Armenia has always called for friendly relations with Turkey. It is turkey that has refused to establish diplomatic relations with Armenia.
--------------------------------------------

U.S. DEPARTMENT OF STATE HOPES FOR SOONEST NORMALIZATION OF ARMENIA-TURKEY RELATIONS

PanARMENIAN.Net
25.06.2008 19:11 GMT+04:00

The U.S. Department of State shares our European Allies' hope that
Turkey and Armenia will soon normalize their relations, said Matthew
Bryza, Deputy Assistant of State for European and Eurasian Affairs.

"This will involve a decision by Turkey to restore diplomatic relations
and reopen its border with Armenia, and Armenia's recognition of its
existing border with Turkey. We hope such steps will also lead to
a heartfelt discussion of the shared and tragic past of these two
friends of the United States," he said at Washington Institute for
Near East Policy.

"In Europe, the United States remains convinced that Turkey's
eventual membership in the European Union will benefit Europe and
Turkey alike. Turkey's blend of democracy, secularism, and rule of
law can help us all deepen our understanding of how to integrate our
Muslim populations into our mainstream societies while countering
extremist recruiters. Meanwhile, Europe's criteria for accession
to the EU provide a set of incentives for sustained reforms which,
while in Turkey's national interests, are often politically difficult
to make," he said.

http://groong.usc.edu/news/msg236260.html

**Artsakh** · 06-27-2008, 08:39 AM

Re: Presidential elections 2008 in Armenia

Originally posted by KarotheGreat View Post

So what has he done than talk, he says first open the border and we'll see if there will be a commision. He wants to open the border that's his first worry

Yete qo xelq@ etqan e, astvats kez het.

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