Just wondering, Thought I share and ask

[Siamanto]

Re: Just wondering, Thought I share and ask

Here you go again with your dishonesty.

I'm not the type of Armenian who believes in, let alone talks about, physical feature determining "Armenianess". However, you insist on lumping me (and others on this forum who have nothing to do with that school of thought) to be a "skinheads".

Besides your rants on this matter being disingenious, they are also just plain hysterical.

One has to wonder why you are so fixated on this word "skinhead". Also, it's very stange how you use the subject in an attempt to endear yourself with newcomers to the forum.

Take your post above to Yerazhishda for example.

You generalize and villify people of this forum (especially those who respect Armenian) in an attempt to quickly turn newcomers off to those you would deem as "skinheads".

I can only explain your behavior with your insecurities.

In short, I guess the only way you can make friends on this forum is to divide them from the start, before they can form opinions for themselves.
Simply put, you believe that if you can quickly turn newcomers off to the "skinheads", then they will gravitate toward you.

It's all quite pathetic. I'm actually thiking about stopping my replies to you...you need help.

To keep it short - as readers already have enough to judge for themselves:
1- I call you skinheads, because you behave as ones, because you share the same mindset. People are not fools, they can see it
2- Political maneuvering that aims to make friends by dividing is your style, and is illustrated below

I'll put money on TX distancing himself from Siamanto if he chooses t stay here. I'm sure he has to deal with lunatics on a daily basis due to his profession...why would he want to deal with them on his off time in cyber space?

I'm for that. But lets revisit why this thread turned out this way.

First TX comes here with good intentions and is welcomed. Then Armenian, after praising TX, related his innocuous opinion to to him concerning the theory that maintaining an Armenian identity in the diaspora is a dead end.

....Siamnto, in an effort to kiss ass, strokes TX's outburst for all it is worth in order to nip some more at Armenian's heels (her favorite pass-time).

TX, probably not knowing what a jackass Siamanto is, aligns himself with her

I wonder when you will find the wisdom to realize that your desperate attempts to distort the facts, and calumniate to save face will continue to miserably fail.

Accept the fact that you're not intelligent enough for the job, and have the wisdom/courage to stop your desperate attempts to distort realities.

[crusader1492]

Re: Just wondering, Thought I share and ask

Enker jan,

I was trying to stay out of this but now I can't. Please stop trying to talk sense to the genetic deformity in question, the anomaly in nature known as Siamanto Why are you even trying to rationalize with someone we all know to be obsessive compulsive and a psychopath. The he/she is on heavy medication and the he/she is obsessed with me He/she probably wants me, in an sick twisted way of course. I have to admit is a bit flattering, in a sick and twisted way of course. Nonetheless, please realize that 'it' lives in an different dimension - the dimension of dementia

Regarding Tex, it is now apparent that he is an asshole. The initial impression he made was good. I fell for it. I now feel like an idiot for complimenting him. I should have sensed him better. I mean how deep or insightful or honest or selfless would a wannabe redneck be? Anyway, soon after his first few posts it became obvious that he simply wanted to be pampered and told just how wonderful and great he is. So when I did not sooth his inflated ego, he got insulting and cocky. The highway predator from the US occupied Mexican province of Texas has a massive ego, a nasty attitude and is totally ignorant of our culture, our history and our politics.

I don't have any patience for such dingbats.

Please let him and the he/she converse to their heart's content.

Anyway dude, thank you from the bottom of my heart for providing me with some excellent father's day entertainment. You're funny as hell!

Now I gotta run back to the children.

Armenian,

You are the best.

Have fun with the kids. Btw, my 100% Hye son was born last week. I'm a now a father too!

[Siamanto]

Re: Just wondering, Thought I share and ask

Reading up til now I think that I agree with your point of view. No one has to give you permission to be Armenian - only you can identify yourself as one. There has been research that shows that ethnic "differences" and "identifications" tend to be primarily social constructs.

The problem to is the super-uber-ultranationalists (I mean what other way is there to describe it) are the ones obsessed with classifiying Armenians and created the "problem" of - «Ո՝վ Հայ մըն է:» It is a false problem. «Մօնդէ Մելզոնեան մը պէտք է որ ըլլալ» կ՛ըսեն: I mean that's ridiculous. The fact that you can now choose to be Armenian by applying for Armenian citizenship is a testament to the fact that being Armenian is not one solid definition.

Some on here say that w/o an Armenian nation, there are no Armenians. That is b/s. What about the hundreds of years w/o an Armenian state? There were still those who identified themselves as Armenians, spoke the Armenian language, etc. and were essentially "diasporans".

Ultranationalism will lead a nation to destruction long-term. The irony is that most ultranationlists who chastise half-Armenians and quarter-Armenians for not repatriating are foreign born themselves and just as culturally not-Armenian as the half and quarter Armenians.

yerazhishda,
Most feel - more or less - the same as you; and, I said before

The skinheads of this forum - who disguise themselves as "nationalists," though noisy, do not represent the Armenian Nation - i.e. neither the Diaspora nor The Republic of Armenia; actually, they constitute a negligible minority that is decreasing in numbers with every new generation. In other words, they are of no future value

Ultra-nationalist and/or skinheads are bad news for any human collectivity; however, we have to confront them, so the more "gullible" ones will not be misinformed, and misguide. They often concentrate on "high traffic" forums to "recruit."

[yerazhishda]

Re: Just wondering, Thought I share and ask

You are viewing reality through rose colored glasses.

Besides unique scenarios like the Armenians of Iran, Armenian identity becomes increasingly watered down through subsequent generations of Armenians in the diaspora. There is no getting around this terminal trend.

Identity is fluid - it is not as concrete as you think it is. Although there a few basic tenets (fundamental beliefs, symbols) that are at the base of ANY identity, a lot of it changes over time. How can you possibly claim that the Armenian identity of today is exactly the same as the Armenian identity of 1000 or even 500 years ago? You can't and it would be naive to claim that they are. The point is that identity is in a constant process of change.

(Actually, I think its ironic that you cite the Armenians of Iran as being uniquely Armenian while the rest of the diaspora is not. Here are a people that live on the border of Armenia, speak Eastern Armenian yet choose to stay in a Muslim theocracy. These are the people that have the most opportunities to repatriate and yet choose to be Iranian. Remind me again how they are more Armenian than other diasporans?)

I think you DO have a point when it comes to the idea that future spiurkahay (I think especially those from America) will have no connection to their "Armenianness" and in the future saying "I'm Armenian" will be akin to Americans saying "I'm English" - no, YOU are not English you had relatives from a distant past that were English.

I think the important thing is to nurture the Armenian in someone, whatever that means to that person because you never know what might happen in that person's future that will encourage them to be a part of the nation. I think if you start saying "this person has no connection to the homeland b/c s/he is only a half or a quarter or s/he is too American and is therfore AUTOMATICALLY not Armenian" is shameful. It is essential to nuture the interest in everything having to do with Armenia - current events, history, language, music, etc. etc.

[yerazhishda]

Re: Just wondering, Thought I share and ask

I suggest you pull your head out of your ass and allow your brain to get some fresh oxygen. Instead of making your self look stupid go to the first page and start reading what was being discussed here.

What a bunch of boneheads...

So said the man "Armenian" - as if he were the only one.

[NightOwl]

Re: Just wondering, Thought I share and ask

I just wanted to add that I'm not racist. I'm just telling the truth about things.
I also wanted to say Armenian sent me a PM calling me a "bimbo"

I ignored it but I think it should be publicly known that he sent me a PM calling me that.

[TXMENIAN]

Re: Just wondering, Thought I share and ask

Armenian,

You are the best.

Have fun with the kids. Btw, my 100% Hye son was born last week. I'm a now a father too!

Don't even have the decency to keep my kids out of this? I am going to take it that you are saying your 100% hye son is better than my mixed kids. As Insulting me was not enough you have to drag my wife and kids into this?

Well, I can tell you, after so many attempts of stupid posts, you finally found the one.

But from an "Armenian like me" to you, Congratulations with your 100% hye kid. I wish him/her the best life can offer and I hope he/she grows up to be a better person than you.

Its OK to think of your self that you, your family and future generations are of pure blood line by ignoring that part of your history that shows you such a thing is not possible with Armenians. But you got to do what got to make yourself Superior over others.

Now, It is time to put a stop to the BS about how this thread lost its objective and became what it is today:


Your idiot buddy said this:

I am glad to have an Armenian like you posting here. Regardless of your upbringing, just the fact that you are deeply interested in your heritage and identity and have visited the homeland says enough about your inner person, about the "Armenian" in you. Most diasporan Armenians today have not visited Armenia, nor are they interested in their cultural/national heritage. I hope you keep retuning to the homeland, even if you never consider living there. In my opinion, it would be irrational to even suggest to someone like you to consider living there. I would simply like to see individuals such as yourself establish and maintain a 'physical' and 'spiritual' connection to the homeland. Maybe, just maybe, your children may want to live there in the future. You may even end up have an Armenian bride. You never know. Dr. Ayvazian's essay regarding "what is an Armenian" simply had to do with Armenia and not Armenians. It's simple: Without Armenia, there is no point of being an Armenian, especially in the West. Regardless of what we do Armenians living in the diaspora will eventually disappear. Thus, it's all about the Armenian nation. Regardless of who we are and where we live, the preservation of the Armenian state is a fundamental concept that all self-respecting Armenians must respect - without condition.

"You may even end up have an Armenian bride" I have never met a person Armenian or not that ever insulted me and my wife of 23 years this way.

Let me tell you Crusader, If you consider such a statement a compliment and not get offended by it you don't deserve to be called the man of your family.
I replied:

Armenian,

You need to know that I know first hand how it feels to someone to be without his country. Many times I sat on his lap and listened to my Grandfather's stories about him being a boy from Urpha and meeting my Grandmother on a trip he took to Azaz. Stories that if you pay attention you can tell the man is still living in those days in his own head and don't want to deal with the reality of him losing his country. Just because I was born in the greatest state in the union does not mean I am ignorant on the importance of Armenians belonging in Armenia. You and few others keep wishing I keep visiting Armenia. Stop, I made few friendship in two visits and still have Aunts, uncles and cousins that live in Yerevan and I will visit every time I have a chance. It's not like I own the travel company that flies me there. I have to plan and pay for those trips. LOL
My brother and I are looking into buying a particular apartment in Yerevan that has a view of Ararat as we speak. But even so, As far as moving there permanently does not look like a possibility right now. Maybe this will change in the future. But if it didn't, I know I have been and done and will continue on doing enough for my people, my far away homeland that even if I didn't participate in your "fundamental concept" I will be OK and not feel I was less of what Armenian in Armenia are.

For about 80 years the only Armenia we knew was the one under the Russian rule and we did good. I don't understand how you figure someday Armenians outside Armenia will disappear. If you are thinking every Armenian will move and live in Armenia one day? Good for you and I really hope so but I dint see that happing.




Can you please clarify what do you mean by "Armenian like you" and "Regardless of your upbringing" please.

He replies:

Someone who has been brought up on the fringes of Armenian society/community; someone who is married to a non-Armenian; someone who is probably more American than Armenian; yet someone who has managed to keep in touch with his heritage and identity.

Clear enough?


TX, you must first be humble enough to realize that you are not all too familiar with the very complex dynamics/mechanisms of the Armenian nation and the kind of geopolitical/sociopolitical situation the Armenian Republic is in today.

Two things I would like to say:

1) It it were not for the first Armenian Republic established in 1918, that which continued during the Soviet era and is a free republic again today - Turks would have fully succeeded in their plan to exterminate the Armenian nation. It's a gross inaccuracy to state - just because we are chit-chatin here in cyberspace, Turks did not succeed. Turks did succeed! Western Armenia - Anatolia - our ancient homeland has been depopulated of Armenians. Moreover, although you are interested in your heritage, there are countless other Armenians in your category, the vast majority of American Armenians, are totally oblivious to all things Armenian. With each new generation there will be less-and-less Armenians like you. It's no secret, the Armenian diaspora is dying a not too slow death, especially in the West.

2) The Armenian Republic today is in a very vulnerable/precarious geopolitical/sociopolitical position. In an certain sense, this is what Armenia looks like today: Tiny, impoverished, depleted population, landlocked, with no natural resources and surrounded by hostile neighbors in the worst geopolitical location in earth - the Caucasus. Fledgling Armenia is caught in a merciless regional tug of war with no end in sight. Under certain circumstances, for instance; the expulsion of Russians forces from the greater Caucasus region, the Armenian Republic can cease to exist in a blink-of-an-eye. This already bad situation has gotten worst recently with the onset of the US inspired coup d'etat several months ago.



Did I say you need to move to Armenia? I said seek to maintain ties with the nation, then perhaps something good will come out of it. Nonetheless, what you and your brother have been "thinking" of doing in Yerevan is still better than what most Armenians do when it comes to Armenia - nothing. All it takes is intention.



Anyway, ask yourself if your children will marry Armenians and/or raise their children as Armenians? Do you have relatives? How are they doing? Think longterm. 80 years is a blink of an eye in history. Nonetheless, of the one million plus Armenians in America only a small minorioty have kept their Armenian identity to some degree. With each coming generation this number will dwindle until it reaches zero. This wont be the first time or the last time in our turbulent history. We have given countless millions of our countrymen to foreign lands for thousand of years. Armenians exist today simply because of our homeland.

At this point I don't understand What made me different than him or anyone else. The other thing is, worry about your own kids. I'll worry about mine.

[TXMENIAN]

Re: Just wondering, Thought I share and ask

So I replied:

I was hoping for you not to make an arrogant call about how much of an Armenian I am or not. I''l go easy and be nice about it since my brother already called you every name in the book when he saw your post. By the way, that would be the Armenian book...not American.

First you should know, EVERYONE in my family including me the Lieutenant at the Texas highway patrol, have first and non translated Armenian names. My older son has my fathers first name and my fathers first name was Armen. Thats what everyone know him by everywhere. The same with the rest of my family. So not one person in my family has an English first name other than my brothers wife and my wife.

The fringes of Armenian society/community I was brought up in is my parents and grandparents home you are referring to until 12 years ago where I spend everyday I am not on the road working at the Armenian center where me and the "non-Armenian" I am married to have few responsibilities we volunteered for including teaching the kids about drugs awayness.

I speak Armenian unless I am at work, even with the "non-Armenian" I am married to. Everyday, every time and all the time. Besides my brother and I, two sisters are married to Armenians, one from Michigan and resides there and the other from Armenia, family given nick name"Borat" looks just like him. Moved to Austin two years ago, A week After he married my sister. Thats why I was in Yerevan in 2006 with my entire family. Thats when my brother and I saw these nice apartments we are interested in. I spend more time with Armenians than anyone else.


Again, The fact that I was born in the greatest state of the Union has nothing to do with how much of an Armenian I am.

And that offended the idiot and he replied:

You actually took offense at what I said??? My 'impression' of you was based on how 'you' described yourself. WTF! Please, tell me you are kidding... OK. You're not kidding. Anyway, I see what I'm dealing with now - a massive ego, with an "Texan" attitude. Thanks for clearing it up, Tex. Please tell your brother to post his insults here, I would love to see them.



{Applause}



Listen, stop the BS. You are born in one of the shit holes of the US. Many of the vilest things about the US is represented by Texas. And I believe it's occupied territory and should go back to Mexico. Well, it already is going back to Mexico

See Tex, I can be nasty to. Anyway, I am done with you. One thing I can't tolerate is ignorant individuals with massive egos and an attitude. So I hand you over to our resident psychotic he/she called Siamanto. I am sure you and he/she will have a wonderful time here.

Adios gringo

His impression of me? How I described my self?

This is my first post in the "introduce your self" section and its the only time I describe my self:

Hello Everyone,

I came across this wonderful site this morning trying to look up a list of famous Armenians for a research I am helping my son with.

I hold a bachelors degree in computer science and I have been with the Texas Department of Public Safety (State Trooper) for 14 years as a 2nd Lieutenant. Born in Austin Texas and both parents are Armenian. Been married for 23 years to a wonderful country girl that is still proud to adopt my Armenian last name and have two wonderful boys. We all speak Armenian (thanks to me) and I just acquired some material to start learning to read and write Armenian. It dozen’t look easy so far, but will give it my best shot.
Already think there are some interesting posts in this place. , time read some.


Peace.

What did I say to give him an impression that warrants him to say "Armenian like you" and "Regardless of your upbringing".

Putting me in different class and criticizing my upbringing is far from it being a compliment.

See Tex, I can be nasty to. Anyway, I am done with you. One thing I can't tolerate is ignorant individuals with massive egos and an attitude. So I hand you over to our resident psychotic he/she called Siamanto. I am sure you and he/she will have a wonderful time here.

Adios gringo

How much of an animal you have to be for you to not realize that your stupid childish attitude and display of an imaginary superiority to wards someone that has never spoken to before was wrong. How much of an animal you have to be not to think that you not considering his non Armenian wife good enough for him and wish he could find a bride in Armenia would not be offensive.

Just in case anyone is wondering why I am referring to him as an Idiot. Because anyone that calls Texas "Occupied territory" is an idiot.


Crusader? What kind of man are you to conceder these insults as praising?
Not just that, but to tell everyone:

I'm for that. But lets revisit why this thread turned out this way.

First TX comes here with good intentions and is welcomed. Then Armenian, after praising TX, related his innocuous opinion to to him concerning the theory that maintaining an Armenian identity in the diaspora is a dead end.

TX, for some reason took offense to that (probably because it hit too close to home) and Siamnto, in an effort to kiss ass, strokes TX's outburst for all it is worth in order to nip some more at Armenian's heels (her favorite pass-time).

TX, probably not knowing what a jackass Siamanto is, aligns himself with her even after she throws around the word "skinhead" around several times...This is where I lost respect for the man.

Following that, I took it upon myself to throw around a few, not so nice words about him. I figure, if he can condone unwarranted name-calling, he should not be immune to having it come back his way...thus the Khozi mis comment.
Anyway, I'm all for starting over. But, if TX continues to his chiming in with the queef called Siamanto, then he can take his "inchbes ek y'all" and shove...well, you get the idea.

If I looked up the words chicken xxxx in the dictionary you picture will be right next to it.

Shame on you to conceder your kid better than mine because your wife is Armenian. My wife speaks Armenian and has done more for the Austin Texas Armenian community than any Armenian in Austin. This is a woman when someone at the center thought he was complimenting her by saying she was an Armenian by marriage her answer to him was "No, I am an Armenian by choice". Ya I know Crusader, this one is above you and your idiot friends level of comprehension. But than really, I am expecting too much out of a person that thought calling me Khoz than saying Oimk was name calling that was suppose to make an impact. All this out of your kindergarten Attitude and you call Siamanto a jackass. How can you two be so unaware of your not so decent selfs?

Someday if you had the chance to visit the Armenian center in Austin Texas, you will realize that it is not Utopia. It is for real. And for your sake, don't announce who you are. This comment you made about your kid being 100% hye is going to take sometime to heal.


I say it again, I don't care how much of an Armenian you think you are. I don't care if you were married to the first original Armenian girl. I don't care how well you speak, read or write Armenian.
Twisted mentalities and inconsideration to wards other people, Armenian or not, makes you absolutely worthless.

[crusader1492]

Re: Just wondering, Thought I share and ask

Inchbes ek y'all TX,

Just to reiteratre, I am very proud that my son is 100% Armenian...that is his entire lineage is Armenian. Also, if you want to read into that as if it were a slight to your kids, then so be it. You are only broadcasting to the entire forum that you have a complex about it. I said nothing and implied nothing about your kids.

You should ask yourself why you consider my simple statement (not even addressed to you, btw) that my son is "100% Armenian", is so provocative to you.

Anyway, as I hold my son and think about the struggles my forefathers went through just to maintain their identity, I have no guilt...only hope.

[yerazhishda]

Re: Just wondering, Thought I share and ask

If I looked up the words chicken xxxx in the dictionary you picture will be right next to it.

Shame on you to conceder your kid better than mine because your wife is Armenian. My wife speaks Armenian and has done more for the Austin Texas Armenian community than any Armenian in Austin. This is a woman when someone at the center thought he was complimenting her by saying she was an Armenian by marriage her answer to him was "No, I am an Armenian by choice". Ya I know Crusader, this one is above you and your idiot friends level of comprehension. But than really, I am expecting too much out of a person that thought calling me Khoz than saying Oimk was name calling that was suppose to make an impact. All this out of your kindergarten Attitude and you call Siamanto a jackass. How can you two be so unaware of your not so decent selfs?

Someday if you had the chance to visit the Armenian center in Austin Texas, you will realize that it is not Utopia. It is for real. And for your sake, don't announce who you are. This comment you made about your kid being 100% hye is going to take sometime to heal.


I say it again, I don't care how much of an Armenian you think you are. I don't care if you were married to the first original Armenian girl. I don't care how well you speak, read or write Armenian.
Twisted mentalities and inconsideration to wards other people, Armenian or not, makes you absolutely worthless.

Good post. I agree with everything said above.

Does "Armenian" think he is better than everyone else b/c he can say "hay em"? I got news for you "Armenian", millions of others can say the same thing. You are not better than other Armenians b/c you or your descendents have "pure" blood - you are only Armenian by virtue of your birth i.e. chance. Once you realize this fact I don't think that you will be so concerned with the geneology of other Armenians.