Are Armenians white????

[KanadaHye]

Re: Are Armenians white????

When you willingly serve in foreign armies, you swear an allegiance to the country you are fighting for, thus stripping you of the allegiance that your are supposed to owe to Armenia.

And how long of a span through the last couple millennium has Armenia been independent?

[Mos]

Re: Are Armenians white????

I'm talking about post-Independence, during the time there has been Armenian state.

[Nare]

Re: Are Armenians white????

WRONG!!

Armenians have always volenteered to serve their host country in times of need.....check history from ancient times.
Also we even have been legions, you should know.

One of many facts...

The 13 Martyrs of Arad



1000 YEARS OF HISTORY: THE ARMENIANS OF HUNGARY
by David Zenian
Armenians have been part of the Hungarian landscape from well before the birth of the first Hungarian Kingdom nearly 1000 years ago, and despite the often devastating effects of assimilation, their survival instinct has kept their Armenian identity alive.
Traces of the early Armenian presence are evident in every juncture of Hungarian history, often contained in historical documents describing many of Hungary�s wars against invading armies.
Having already settled mainly in ancient Transylvania at a time when Hungary was ruled by King Stephan between 1001 and 1038, the Armenians have maintained an uninterrupted presence throughout the centuries.
They have often been associated with the royal families of Hungary, including that of King Andrew the Second, whose son was briefly engaged to Princess Zabel, the daughter of King Levon the First (1198-1219) of Armenia. The wedding did not materialize due to King Levon�s death.
But the breakup did not have an adverse effect on the Armenian colonies in Hungary. In 1243, King Bela IV granted the Armenians special privileges in the Esztergom region of Hungary, giving them land and the right to build their own monasteries.
One of the historical seals of the ancient Hungarian village of Talmacs includes that of Bishop Martin, who headed the region�s Armenian Bishopric. Similar references are seen in the church records of Budapest, where Armenus Aegidius is mentioned as one of the city elders in the 15th century and Ermeni Stephanus as Chief Justice in the 16th century.
While mostly spread across Hungary, Armenians are more closely associated with Transylvania which was part of Hungary until 1526, then an autonomous region until 1848, then again part of Hungary until 1921 when it was integrated into Romania after the Allies drew up a postwar settlement under the Treaty of Trianon which drastically reduced Hungary�s size.
The largest wave of Armenian immigrants began settling in what was then Hungarian Transylvania around 1672 with the encouragement and invitation of Prince Michael I of Apafi who gave the estimated 8,000 Armenian subjects of his Principality special privileges.
Armenians were soon to control 25 percent of the region�s commerce and industry, establishing a number of Armenian towns and villages.
A historical document dated February 7, 1696 and signed by Prince Michael II of Apafi, ordered local rulers to treat the Armenians with special care.
�Let no one dare harm the Armenians. No one has the right to arrest them or put them in prison,� he dictated,
He further went on to give the Armenians the right to establish their own courts, local administrations and community affairs.
�Let every one know that if any Armenians are subjected to any kind of harsh and unjust actions, we will always be there to protect them,� he wrote.
This special relationship continued for decades, only to be cut short by the loss of Transylvania to the Austrian Empire. It was during this war that the Armenian minority sided with the Hungarians and later threatened to leave the region if some of their privileges were not restored.
The threat paid off, and in the year 1700, the Armenians were allowed to establish themselves in a new city, Armenopolis, later known Szamos�jv�r, and more recently Gherla, where Armenians from the various regions of Transylvania soon gathered.
In an effort to consolidate and organize their status, the Armenians of Armenopolis established a �Council of Elders� in 1714, and in the following year they were officially recognized as the rulers of the city.
Here, the Armenian businessmen were strong enough to approach Austrian Emperor Carlos IV and request permission to expand to the nearby town of Erzseb�tv�ros (Elizabeth-Town), which was rapidly becoming another major center of Armenian habitation.
Permission was not only granted in 1733, but other ethnic groups living there were asked to leave and the Armenians given wide-ranging privileges including tax exemption, the election of their own leaders and permission to build and expand their city.
Historical records show that until as late as 1916, all the elected mayors of Erzseb�tv�ros were of Armenian origin.
It was in Erzseb�tv�ros that the first Armenian school was established in 1729, which was later expanded in 1744 thanks to a major financial donation by a local Armenian by the name of Bedros Kapayan. The city also had a special Armenian school for girls which was opened in 1730.
Already well entrenched in Hungarian life, the Armenians flourished in Transylvania, especially in the major cities where an estimated 10,000-15,000 Armenians lived until the 19th century.
Throughout the centuries, and despite the political and military upheavals of the region, the Armenians have maintained an active presence.
Many were involved in trade, especially in livestock, while others exported wood for boat construction in England and France. Alongside the rich merchant class, there were also artisans, and tannery owners who exported thousands of pieces of processed leather to nearby countries.
As in peacetime, the Armenians have also played an active role at times of war and foreign invasions.
In 1686, an Armenian tailor by the name of Kapriel Tokhatetsi, is said to have helped the local Hungarian authorities in Buda, which is present-day Budapest, in their war of liberation against the Ottoman Turks.
According to historical records, Tokhatetsi not only provided the armies fighting the Turks with vital military information, �but, at the appropriate time, blew up the Turkish military depot of the city�.
�This ordinary Armenian has done a lot for the liberation of Buda from Turkish rule,� one historian has said.
It was during the same war against the Ottoman Turks, that Hungary�s well-established Armenian minority donated 100,000 Forints to the war effort and later another 15,000 Forints to repair damage caused by the fighting.
Later, during financial crises, the community also donated large sums of money to the central government as a �national debt to their adopted country.�
Here, historians note a major financial donation in the 1700′s by the Armenians of Szamos�jv�r towards the establishment of the Hungarian Academy of Sciences.
Most prominent, however, was the role the Armenians played in the 1848-49 Hungarian War of Independence against Austrian rule.

[Nare]

Re: Are Armenians white????

In this historical battle, hundreds of Armenian officers and enlisted men were killed in the war effort which was led by 13 top generals, including three Hungarians of Armenian origin-;Ernest (Erno) Kiss (Bzdikian), Vilmos Lazar (Ghazarian) and Janos Czetz (Tzetzian).
The first two were later executed by the Austrians and the third, Janos Czetz managed to escape to Argentina where he founded that nation�s military academy.
Today, the government and people of Hungary, mark the occasion of their martyrdom on October 6 as a national day of mourning, an event in which the Armenian community of Hungary also participates to remember its own heroes.
More than 1000 years have passed since the Armenians first settled in Hungary. Wars, political upheavals and assimilation have taken their toll, but their survival instinct has kept them going throughout the centuries.
The renaissance of today�s Armenian community of Hungary is the best witness to their determination to keep their ethnic roots alive.

[retro]

Re: Are Armenians white????

Mongoloid HG26 YDNA in 89 Armenians frequency was 2%. 43 Scots: 2%. 30 Germans: 3%. 64 Swedish Gotlanders: 1%. 99 Italians: 6% (Rosser ZH, Zerjal T, Hurles ME, etc.). Armenians also generally have typical European YDNA haplogroups (I, R1b).

Now looking at the mtDNA, 192 Armenians have shown Asian defining mtDNA haplogroup M (found very commonly in Mongoloids and Indians) in frequency of 0%. Compared to 388 Turks (M frequency: 4.1%), 139 Georgians (2.2%) and 187 Ossetes (2.1%). Ref.: Tambets K., Kivisiild T., Metspalu E, etc.:

The Siberian Turks are really Uralics, whilst proto-Turkic/Hunnic is Indo-European/Mongol. Georgians are for the most part ethnic Caucasians and they are intermediately group between Europeans and Western Asians.

Armenians are Anatolians (Western Asians). Anatolian and the Balkans connects Europe to the Near East and both the Etruscans and the Minoans where both descended from Ancient Anatolian/Caucasian peoples.

Ancient Western Anatolians had cultural/ethnic ties to Europe and in Anatolia/Mesopotamia, Northwest Semitic/Anatolian peoples such as Urartu, Assyria, Aramaean. Interacted with all sorts of Anatolian/Balkan Indo-European peoples, such as the Hatti, Hittite, Phrygia and Lydia.

Andronovo cultures, Urheimaten is north of the Black Sea in the Urals and this is where the eastern Indo-Iranic branch is from. R1b is a Western and Southern Indo-European branch and it's likely much older than it's Eastern brother clad R1a.

Many Western Mongols have R1a and Indo-Europeans can manifest themselves in a more Asiatic or proto-Turkic form i.e. Tocharians, Yuezhi, Kushans, Eastern Persian/Greek empires.

Out of 10 human male remains assigned to the Andronovo horizon from the Krasnoyarsk region, 9 possessed the R1a Y-chromosome haplogroup and one C haplogroup (xC3). mtDNA haplogroups of nine individuals assigned to the same Andronovo horizon and region were as follows: U4 (2 individuals), U2e, U5a1, Z, T1, T4, H, and K2b.

90% of the Bronze Age period mtDNA haplogroups were of west Eurasian origin and the study determined that at least 60% of the individuals overall (out of the 26 Bronze and Iron Age human remains' samples of the study that could be tested) had light hair and blue or green eyes.

A 2004 study also established that during the Bronze Age/Iron Age period, the majority of the population of Kazakhstan (part of the Andronovo culture during Bronze Age), was of west Eurasian origin (with mtDNA haplogroups such as U, H, HV, T, I and W), and that prior to the 13th-7th century BCE, all Kazakh samples belonged to European lineages.

Hippocrates writes:

In Europe there is a Scythian race, called Sauromatae, which inhabits
the confines of the Palus Maeotis, and is different from all other
races. Their women mount on horseback, use the bow, and throw the
javelin from their horses, and fight with their enemies as long as
they are virgins; and they do not lay aside their virginity until
they kill three of their enemies, nor have any connection with men
until they perform the sacrifices according to law. Whoever takes
to herself a husband, gives up riding on horseback unless the necessity
of a general expedition obliges her. They have no right breast; for
while still of a tender age their mothers heat strongly a copper instrument
constructed for this very purpose, and apply it to the right breast,
which is burnt up, and its development being arrested, all the strength
and fullness are determined to the right shoulder and arm.

As the other Scythians have a peculiarity of shape, and do not resemble
any other, the same observation applies to the Egyptians, only that
the latter are oppressed by heat and the former by cold. What is called
the Scythian desert is a prairie, rich in meadows, high-lying, and
well watered; for the rivers which carry off the water from the plains
are large. There live those Scythians which are called Nomades, because
they have no houses, but live in wagons. The smallest of these wagons
have four wheels, but some have six; they are covered in with felt,
and they are constructed in the manner of houses, some having but
a single apartment, and some three; they are proof against rain, snow,
and winds. The wagons are drawn by yokes of oxen, some of two and
others of three, and all without horns, for they have no horns, owing
to the cold. In these wagons the women live, but the men are carried
about on horses, and the sheep, oxen, and horses accompany them; and
they remain on any spot as long as there is provender for their cattle,
and when that fails they migrate to some other place. They eat boiled
meat, and drink the milk of mares, and also eat hippace, which is
cheese prepared from the milk of the mare. Such is their mode of life
and their customs.

Central Asian cowboys.

[Nare]

Re: Are Armenians white????

Armenians are Anatolians (Western Asians).

Armenians are from Armenian Highland and Anatolia is just part of it. And when you use that "cliche" of us being from "Western Asia" it gives out a wrong impression since we have nothing to do with Asians.


Now looking at the mtDNA, 192 Armenians have shown Asian defining mtDNA haplogroup M (found very commonly in Mongoloids and Indians) in frequency of 0%.

Term "Armenian Highland" is not used for political reasons forced by our neighbours since all of them have part of our land...

Armenian Highland, Russian Armyanskoye Nagorye, also spelled Arm�anskoje Nagor�e, mountainous region of Transcaucasia. It lies mainly in Turkey, occupies all of Armenia, and includes southern Georgia, western Azerbaijan, and northwestern Iran.

It is territory of Urartu which again some of our neighbours reject as being an Armenian civilization. In UK museum Urartu goes under "Turkish" department while fortress Erebuni is in Yerevan. Had we fought for the right name of our region we would have succeded more in AG recognition.

Until the place is wrongly called "Asia Minor" we will be confused with Asians, it should be our common struggle to bring the right name "Armenian Highland" back...

Btw, what is it with this site not taking the word "xxx" and replacing it with xxx?
Recently I was reading some Bible site where it said that by xxxish tradition Armenian Highland is called Kurdish Highland...If we are called "Arab" then I guess no problem with our lands including Ararat being called Kurdish?

You see, if we are "Arabs, Asians,etc" then really how can we oppose xxxish traditions and claim our sacred Ararat? One leads to another and Kurds might even be right claiming Western Armenia ?

[Nare]

Re: Are Armenians white????

4. The Passing of the Great Race

By Madison Grant

The Armenians, have resisted stoutly the pressure of Islam to force them away from their ancient Christian faith. This people really represents the last outpost of Europe toward the Mohammedan East and constitutes the best remaining medium through which Western ideals and culture can be introduced into Asia.

............

2. The Inequality of Human Races by Arthur de Gobineau.

Translated with online translator from Russian.

http://www.hrono.ru/libris/lib_g/gobino36.html

«The name of these warlike tribes originated from the word «gall», meaning «strong». It is linked with the ancient roots of language, which remained in Sanskrit, «wala» or «walya» — and has the same value. Sarmatian tribes, then the Goths, kept faithful to this form and named galls »walah». Slavs have reworked the word «wlach». Greeks pronounced it as «Celts» and Romans borrowed their pronunciation «Celtae «. Finally, it adopted the current form, «Galli». Besides that names galls had another name «Gomer» which in the biblical genealogy is the name of one of the sons of Japheth.
As an aside it is appropriate to mention the following interesting facts.
Armenians, writing that name it in their Chronicles, turned it into a «Gamer». I can’t tell where it came from them, but perhaps they (Armenians) were relatives of the Celts. There is indirect confirmation of this in the Bible, where Armenians are called tribe to breakaway from these «gomer» or «gamir». In Genesis (x 3) they are called «Togarmah-sons of Homer».
After that he explains all in details by Bible.

.-.-.-.-.-.-.

At that time the Armenians served side by side with the Scandinavians who were in the Byzantine army. This first encounter between the Armenian mountain-dwellers and the northern people has been discussed by Nansen, who brings these two elements closer to each other and records: “It was the Armenians who together with our Scandinavian forefathers made up the assault units of Byzantine.”[5] Moreover, Bussel underlines the similarities in the way of thinking and the spirit of the Armenian feudal lords and the northern warriors. He claims that, in both groups, there was a strange absence and ignorance of government and public interest and at the same time an equally large interest in achieving personal distinctions and a loyalty towards their masters and leaders.[6]

..................

3. The Armenian origin of the Etruscans – Google Books
Armenian Origin Of The Etruscans
by Robert Ellis

[bakothegreat]

Re: Are Armenians white????

The Siberian Turks are really Uralics, whilst proto-Turkic/Hunnic is Indo-European/Mongol. Georgians are for the most part ethnic Caucasians and they are intermediately group between Europeans and Western Asians.

- What makes you think that? Are you Anthropologist? What is your Source?

Armenians are Anatolians (Western Asians). Anatolian and the Balkans connects Europe to the Near East and both the Etruscans and the Minoans where both descended from Ancient Anatolian/Caucasian peoples.

----??? Sources? it is far more likely that the Etruscans and the Minoans were Indo-European tribes early on, and they had familiar DNA and culture with Armenians, possibly even relatives, or if not the Armenians.

Ancient Western Anatolians had cultural/ethnic ties to Europe and in Anatolia/Mesopotamia, Northwest Semitic/Anatolian peoples such as Urartu, Assyria, Aramaean. Interacted with all sorts of Anatolian/Balkan Indo-European peoples, such as the Hatti, Hittite, Phrygia and Lydia.

--- THIS IS ABSURD AND ABSOLUTELY INDOCTRINATED...you are pulling stupid conclusions from several different sources. The people of Urartu, were Armenians and spoke proto-Armenian. It is the elite who spoke Urartian Source
Also it is far more likely that the Urartian were European descendants whose language grew because they were an isolated tribe, before they subjegated Armenian people, or the other way around with the Assyrians, since Movses Korenantsee does attribute their work at Van with an ancient Assyrian war heroin. [Armenia, Travels and Studies, Volume 2. London: Longmans, 1901, p. 54.]

Andronovo cultures, Urheimaten is north of the Black Sea in the Urals and this is where the eastern Indo-Iranic branch is from. R1b is a Western and Southern Indo-European branch and it's likely much older than it's Eastern brother clad R1a.

Absurd or invented, you cite no source?

Many Western Mongols have R1a and Indo-Europeans can manifest themselves in a more Asiatic or proto-Turkic form i.e. Tocharians, Yuezhi, Kushans, Eastern Persian/Greek empires.

Are you possibly Half turkish or too stupid to realize that during the 20th century and over the millenia through slave trade and other disusting acts by the Islamic Fundamentalist turks they robbed genes. And eventually you get the Eurasian blender that they are today.?

Central Asian cowboys.

Are you calling Armenians Central Asian cowboys or the Scythians? You need to do your research on the Scythian's, who had many tribes and were a nomadic people predominately European with some Euro-Mongers.

[Nare]

Re: Are Armenians white????

Bako,

That's quite typical, isn't it? When Armenians don't defend what is theirs Turks, Azeris and Georgians claim it.

[retro]

Re: Are Armenians white????

It's my understanding that the Hurrians (influenced the Hittites) had a Indo-European elite and that Urartian predated the entry of Indo-European (Armenian) into the region. Many indigenous European elements in the Balkans where Indo-Europeanised and this region links to Anatolia.

It's hard to know where the Armenian language is from and the linguists don't seem to know.

Linguists classify Armenian as an independent branch of the Indo-European language family. Armenian shares a number of major innovations with Greek, and some linguists group these two languages together with Phrygian and the Indo-Iranian family into a higher-level subgroup of Indo-European which is defined by such shared innovations as the augment. More recently, others have proposed a Balkan grouping including Greek, Armenian, Phrygian and Albanian.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armenian_language

Armenians are close to Georgian and Assyrians to whom they have a similar paternal make up. Whilst the Kurds seemingly have European maternal and Western Asia paternal ancestry.

R1b's variation is highest in the Anatolia/Caucasia. So it's not a interloper into the region and may of emerged there. However the same can't be said of R1a. As it's the Scythians and other nomadic Indo-Iranic peoples from the North, who where launching inclusions into Assyria.

Etruscan Anatolians

The study has also shown that there is a link between Etruscans and certain populations of Anatolia. In particular, the areas of historical Etruscan occupation have a relatively high concentration of y-haplogroup G.

According to the research conducted by genetic scientists in Italy's Pavia University, the roots of Etruscans were in the ancient Lydian region in Anatolia. The scientists have reached the conclusion by examining 322 Mitochondrial DNA Variations derived from the three districts in Italy's Toscana region where the Etruscans once lived as well as comparing their sequence variation with that of 55 western Eurasian populations.

http://ancient-anatolia.blogspot.com/2007/02/etruscans-anatolian-italians.html

DNA sheds light on Minoans

Crete’s fabled Minoan civilization was built by people from Anatolia, according to a new study by Greek and foreign scientists that disputes an earlier theory that said the Minoans’ forefathers had come from Africa.

The new study – a collaboration by experts in Greece, the USA, Canada, Russia and Turkey – drew its conclusions from the DNA analysis of 193 men from Crete and another 171 from former neolithic colonies in central and northern Greece.

The results show that the country’s neolithic population came to Greece by sea from Anatolia – modern-day Iran, Iraq and Syria – and not from Africa as maintained by US scholar Martin Bernal.

The DNA analysis indicates that the arrival of neolithic man in Greece from Anatolia coincided with the social and cultural upsurge that led to the birth of the Minoan civilization, Constantinos Triantafyllidis of Thessaloniki’s Aristotle University told Kathimerini.

“Until now we only had the archaeological evidence – now we have genetic data too and we can date the DNA,” he said.

http://archive.ekathimerini.com/4dcg.../04/2008_95079