Are Armenians white????

[Eddo211]

Re: Are Armenians white????

I think I once saw an Armenian with slightly slanted eyes, damn it! So we're Chinese and black

Our black comes from Indian side....In US you could qualify for discounts in 7/11 stores.

Hey Mos, just so you know I have never watched even single episode of Kim Kardashians shows....I was researching something else and came up with this Young Turk show in USA (I still don't know what that is about) and then came across this video.

I personnally don't know anything about DNA test results or what else but this is where I heard it, not that I support it but here it is. However to me she looks just like my cousin so she must have Armenian in her.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vV31xQpjPUI

This is on Lopez tonight show....not a good reference but that is what I got. hahaha

[Spectre19]

Re: Are Armenians white????

My first post here, being an Assyrian and reading this topic randomly perhaps I should share some valuable information with the Armenian brothers/sisters here since I'm very much involved in the genetic communities and well aware of Armenian DNA projects out there.

First of all the whole topic is rather absurd the way the OP puts it, I understand the topic was made long time ago but seeing how there's recent activity, I like to ask, what exactly defines white? I ask this because these stormfront racists are quite confused and to top it off, they confused the rest of us with them too, I always thought the term white meant white skinned, no? For whatever it's worth, I like to use the term Caucasoid, and based on that the Armenians and the rest of the middle east for most part ARE Caucasians just like the Europeans.

Now onto the important stuff, when talking about DNA there are two types of DNA tests that should be made clear when talked about, the first test is one that finds your Y-DNA/mtDNA haplogroups, this test is meant for very deep ancestry that traces you back to Africa over 60,000 years ago, it's not meant to tell you what you current ancestry is because it only tracks a super tiny part of you, let's take the Y-DNA for example, this is passed to you from your father, he got his from his father, your grandpa got it from his father, so on all the way back to Africa, you as a human being have multiple lines, the deeper you go the more lines you have, let's assume you go back 10 generations (Around 400 years ago), you have a little over 1000 ancestors, that's right, here's how:

You (1)
Parents (2 lines)
Grandparents (4 lines)
Great grandparents (8 lines)
Great great grandparents (16 lines)
So on.

You end up with exactly 1024 ancestors 10 generations away from you, your Y-DNA comes from only one of these 1024 ancestors, the same thing goes for your mtDNA, mtDNA is the same as the Y-DNA but it's passed through the mothers, think of it, by the time you go back thousands of years ago you'll end up with thousands and thousands of ancestors, which overall makes your Y-DNA/mtDNA sort of useless for recent ancestry.

It's the Autosomal test that reveals where you fit in in the world today, this test shows which world populations you are closest to because it traces back all your lines and analyzes all your 23 chromosomes, the only downside here is that such test cannot go very far back into ancient history because the deeper you go back, the more the results fade away, but it's still the best approach for modern ancestry.

Now that we got that out of the way, let's look at the Armenian Y-DNA distribution which is taken from the Armenian FTDNA project http://www.familytreedna.com/public/...ction=yresults (Best project in the site imo):

R1b - 25.4%
- The most common subclade of R1b among Armenians is R1b1b2a, this same subclade is most common in Western Europe but it simply does not mean the Armenians are Western Europeans, it's actually the other way around, R1b1b2a originated in Anatolia (Modern day Turkey) and migrated to Europe during the Neolithic time, so the Armenian R1b's are Anatolian natives for most part.

J2 - 18.4%
- J2 also originated in the Near East, the main subclade that the Armenians carry is J2a which is a Near Eastern subclade, J2b on the other hand seems to be most common in the Balkans, but in the entire project there are only 2 Armenians that carry J2b (Which is not even 1%).

J1 - 14%
- Most Armenians carry J1*, this haplogroup also originated in the Near East and is most common in north middle eastern populations, Arabs on the other hand tend to carry J1c3 (Also known as J1e) for most part, in the Armenian project 3.5% are J1e's while 10.5% is J1*.

G - 14%
- Most Armenian G's are G2a which originated in the Caucasus, the other major subclade known as G1 is very rare and it apperantly originated in Iran, there are only two of those in the Armenian project.

E1b1b1 - 9.2%
- E1b1b1 originated in East Africa over 20,000 year ago but is very common in the Middle East and the Balkans, in fact the Armenians carry E1b1b1a and E1b1b1c for most part, the first one is most common in the Balkans, once again it got there from Anatolia during the Neolithic time, and the second one seems to be most common in the Middle East.

I2 - 5.7%
- Haplogroup I2 is most common among Balkan populations, it's also found in other parts of Europe and could potentially mean a gene flow from Europe to Anatolia where the Armenians lived.

T - 4.4%
- Haplogroup T originated in the Near East and is most common among middle eastern populations.

R2 - 3.1%
- Haplogroup R2 is most common in South Asians, Central Asians, Iranians, and some Caucasian populations, outside of India this lineage seems to have strong ties to Iranian speakers which could mean an Indo-Iranian gene flow from the east.

R1a - 1.8%
- This is supposed to be the so called Aryan lineage, can't say I agree with the term but R1a1 could very well be similar to R2 among Armenians, in other words from Indo-Iranians.

1.3% - L
- Haplogroup L originated somewhere in South Asia (Around Pakistan), possibly related to the Indus Civilization but among Armenians, I would say it's a gene flow via Indo-Iranians.

0.9% - Q1b
- This is a Siberian haplogroup, probably a gene flow via Turkic migration.

0.9% - A
- Haplogroup A is very rare outside of Africa and is most common is black Africans, my best guess here would be some sort of gene flow from Northeast Africa, maybe through a Coptic-Armenian union.

0.9% - F
- Haplogroup F is most common in South Asia, once again possibly a gene flow via Indo-Iranian expansion.

Now compare these results to the Assyrian Y-DNA distribution:

Sample Size = 62
R1b - 29.03%
J1 - 16.13%
J2 - 14.52%
T - 11.29%
G2 - 9.68%
R1a - 4.84%
R2 - 3.23%
E1b - 3.23%
F - 1.61%
G1 - 1.61%
I - 1.61%
N - 1.61%
Q1b - 1.61%

Just goes to show how much Y-DNA don't prove much, but since it's already been discussed, let me just say that based on Autosomal results, the closest people to the Armenians genetically are actually Assyrians, this has been proven by 23andMe users, just because we speak a Semitic language it does not mean anything, genetically we are north middle eastern (The same goes for Armenians), along with Assyrians other north middle eastern populations such as Kurds, Anatolian Turks, Syrians, and Lebanese also tend to be close genetically to the Armenians, and among Europeans the only close populations to us are Greeks and Southern Italians, the rest of the European world is far, so this whole Aryan brotherhood is just that, none sense.

Finally, the term Aryan in itself is not meant for Europeans and never was historically, the only groups that ever used the term Aryan were the Indian and Iranian groups, and even among them it was not a racial term but rather a cultural one (Arya meaning noble or civilized).

[levon]

Re: Are Armenians white????

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cr...pes-per-capita:

I would believe it if there weren't elements of feminist hysteria in the article. For example.

Apartheid made violence an instrument of control and violence became the norm

"Angry and humiliated, they [men] took out their frustrations then -- and still today -- on the weakest victims, women and children,"

Men's attitude toward women is at the root of the problem, which reveals a deeply rooted culture of violence against women, and of gender inequality.

And it goes on and on using what one may call standard terms feminists have become accustomed to using.

[Federate]

Re: Are Armenians white????

My first post here, being an Assyrian and reading this topic randomly perhaps I should share some valuable information with the Armenian brothers/sisters here since I'm very much involved in the genetic communities and well aware of Armenian DNA projects out there.

First of all the whole topic is rather absurd the way the OP puts it, I understand the topic was made long time ago but seeing how there's recent activity, I like to ask, what exactly defines white? I ask this because these stormfront racists are quite confused and to top it off, they confused the rest of us with them too, I always thought the term white meant white skinned, no? For whatever it's worth, I like to use the term Caucasoid, and based on that the Armenians and the rest of the middle east for most part ARE Caucasians just like the Europeans.

Now onto the important stuff, when talking about DNA there are two types of DNA tests that should be made clear when talked about, the first test is one that finds your Y-DNA/mtDNA haplogroups, this test is meant for very deep ancestry that traces you back to Africa over 60,000 years ago, it's not meant to tell you what you current ancestry is because it only tracks a super tiny part of you, let's take the Y-DNA for example, this is passed to you from your father, he got his from his father, your grandpa got it from his father, so on all the way back to Africa, you as a human being have multiple lines, the deeper you go the more lines you have, let's assume you go back 10 generations (Around 400 years ago), you have a little over 1000 ancestors, that's right, here's how:

You (1)
Parents (2 lines)
Grandparents (4 lines)
Great grandparents (8 lines)
Great great grandparents (16 lines)
So on.

You end up with exactly 1024 ancestors 10 generations away from you, your Y-DNA comes from only one of these 1024 ancestors, the same thing goes for your mtDNA, mtDNA is the same as the Y-DNA but it's passed through the mothers, think of it, by the time you go back thousands of years ago you'll end up with thousands and thousands of ancestors, which overall makes your Y-DNA/mtDNA sort of useless for recent ancestry.

It's the Autosomal test that reveals where you fit in in the world today, this test shows which world populations you are closest to because it traces back all your lines and analyzes all your 23 chromosomes, the only downside here is that such test cannot go very far back into ancient history because the deeper you go back, the more the results fade away, but it's still the best approach for modern ancestry.

Now that we got that out of the way, let's look at the Armenian Y-DNA distribution which is taken from the Armenian FTDNA project http://www.familytreedna.com/public/...ction=yresults (Best project in the site imo):

R1b - 25.4%
- The most common subclade of R1b among Armenians is R1b1b2a, this same subclade is most common in Western Europe but it simply does not mean the Armenians are Western Europeans, it's actually the other way around, R1b1b2a originated in Anatolia (Modern day Turkey) and migrated to Europe during the Neolithic time, so the Armenian R1b's are Anatolian natives for most part.

J2 - 18.4%
- J2 also originated in the Near East, the main subclade that the Armenians carry is J2a which is a Near Eastern subclade, J2b on the other hand seems to be most common in the Balkans, but in the entire project there are only 2 Armenians that carry J2b (Which is not even 1%).

J1 - 14%
- Most Armenians carry J1*, this haplogroup also originated in the Near East and is most common in north middle eastern populations, Arabs on the other hand tend to carry J1c3 (Also known as J1e) for most part, in the Armenian project 3.5% are J1e's while 10.5% is J1*.

G - 14%
- Most Armenian G's are G2a which originated in the Caucasus, the other major subclade known as G1 is very rare and it apperantly originated in Iran, there are only two of those in the Armenian project.

E1b1b1 - 9.2%
- E1b1b1 originated in East Africa over 20,000 year ago but is very common in the Middle East and the Balkans, in fact the Armenians carry E1b1b1a and E1b1b1c for most part, the first one is most common in the Balkans, once again it got there from Anatolia during the Neolithic time, and the second one seems to be most common in the Middle East.

I2 - 5.7%
- Haplogroup I2 is most common among Balkan populations, it's also found in other parts of Europe and could potentially mean a gene flow from Europe to Anatolia where the Armenians lived.

T - 4.4%
- Haplogroup T originated in the Near East and is most common among middle eastern populations.

R2 - 3.1%
- Haplogroup R2 is most common in South Asians, Central Asians, Iranians, and some Caucasian populations, outside of India this lineage seems to have strong ties to Iranian speakers which could mean an Indo-Iranian gene flow from the east.

R1a - 1.8%
- This is supposed to be the so called Aryan lineage, can't say I agree with the term but R1a1 could very well be similar to R2 among Armenians, in other words from Indo-Iranians.

1.3% - L
- Haplogroup L originated somewhere in South Asia (Around Pakistan), possibly related to the Indus Civilization but among Armenians, I would say it's a gene flow via Indo-Iranians.

0.9% - Q1b
- This is a Siberian haplogroup, probably a gene flow via Turkic migration.

0.9% - A
- Haplogroup A is very rare outside of Africa and is most common is black Africans, my best guess here would be some sort of gene flow from Northeast Africa, maybe through a Coptic-Armenian union.

0.9% - F
- Haplogroup F is most common in South Asia, once again possibly a gene flow via Indo-Iranian expansion.

Now compare these results to the Assyrian Y-DNA distribution:

Sample Size = 62
R1b - 29.03%
J1 - 16.13%
J2 - 14.52%
T - 11.29%
G2 - 9.68%
R1a - 4.84%
R2 - 3.23%
E1b - 3.23%
F - 1.61%
G1 - 1.61%
I - 1.61%
N - 1.61%
Q1b - 1.61%

Just goes to show how much Y-DNA don't prove much, but since it's already been discussed, let me just say that based on Autosomal results, the closest people to the Armenians genetically are actually Assyrians, this has been proven by 23andMe users, just because we speak a Semitic language it does not mean anything, genetically we are north middle eastern (The same goes for Armenians), along with Assyrians other north middle eastern populations such as Kurds, Anatolian Turks, Syrians, and Lebanese also tend to be close genetically to the Armenians, and among Europeans the only close populations to us are Greeks and Southern Italians, the rest of the European world is far, so this whole Aryan brotherhood is just that, none sense.

Finally, the term Aryan in itself is not meant for Europeans and never was historically, the only groups that ever used the term Aryan were the Indian and Iranian groups, and even among them it was not a racial term but rather a cultural one (Arya meaning noble or civilized).

Thank you for this insightful post Spectre and welcome to the forum!

[Eddo211]

Re: Are Armenians white????

......I always thought the term white meant white skinned, no?.......

Yes, that is how I think as well......welcome to the forum Spectre19.

[hrai]

Re: Are Armenians white????

Hitler would love this thread

[jgk3]

Re: Are Armenians white????

This thread is great. It's such a good mix of trolling, serious arguments and ankap, as well as pissy posts that fear this being a hot topic, along with Kim Kardashian, is an insult to intelligence and represents a degeneration of our forum from those "wonderful good ol' days..." It's got anger, it reveals our insecurities, and yet sports jokes and commentary from so many members. Plainly said, it's a beauty.

[jgk3]

Re: Are Armenians white????

probably... there's even armo-japanese hybrids

Sushi and Khorovats go well together.

[armogrid]

Re: Are Armenians white????

Sushi and Khorovats go well together.

hahahahhaha!!!

[SevSpitak]

Re: Are Armenians white????

So wait, does this make her white? Or yellow? Or brown? Now I'm confused...

I always found Japanese chicks cute. I guess I'm not the only Armenian guy to think so hehehe