Are Armenian women handicapped because of their upbringing?

[Lucin]

Re: Are Armenian women handicapped because of their upbringing?

No Saco jan, not with whoever they want. I don't think men or women should sleep with whoemever they want. But I gather a great deal of men doing that before they get married then it becomes a very bad habit for them and then they continue that bad habit after their marriage and they start screwing their wives and their CHILDREN royally by doing that. Because children feel very bad too - they feel they are rejected and then one day when they grow up they will do the same. The bad cycle will continue. I think that when a man and a woman fall in love they should first find out if they are really compatible to each other, "kaghaparagan antsik en adonk te voch" and then cohabitate and get married. Otherwise that union will not be heaven but HELL.

I guess my comments above was an outbrust and anger towards our society's "double standard" that choose to give cart blanche to the men to cohabitate with as many women as they want before and after a marriage, then if a girl just flirts a little they "name call" her and say bad things about her and label her like she is sent from hell. It's very unjust and the "double standard" and the "unfairness" makes me throw up quite frankly!!!!

Very well put! I agree with the above.

...but I'll be routing for the flawless, charming, pretty sweet angels, lol.

Good luck! But you'll have a difficult job.

[Sako]

Re: Are Armenian women handicapped because of their upbringing?

Yes Saco jan, I hear you loud and clear, and please do not misunderstand me; women are by no means all saints, I mean Armenian women

Did I say all Armenian girls are Angels? All aren't of course but they are our girls and compared to girls around the world, they are Angels and should be respected by the Armenian populace. If they were being treated right, everything would be much better today so let's not blame them, people. It's starting to disgust me.

but if you do a concesus vs. the Armenian men, you will find out that Armenian men do astray a greeeaaat deal more. And if some women that do astray it is because some Armenian men abuse the women by extremely alluring her and making her like a puppet to them - then they throw her away like a dirty rug.

Read my above post! It proves your point.

But the ones that don't fall into that crappy trap, these are the women that fight against those bad men and their bad habits with their good basic beliefs like a beautiful statue! These are the women that do win at the end, because when they look back they will see that they won over the bad with their good standing and they will feel deep respect towards themselves!!!!

THESE are the Angels I talk about. They are the real Armenian women.

Now about the men, or I should say Armenian men; at least after marriage they should stick with their wives good or bad and stick it out. Rather than continuing their cohabitating habits of the past.

Nicely said. I completely agree.

[Sako]

Re: Are Armenian women handicapped because of their upbringing?

Notice the entire time I've been talking about assimilation of cultures. And this is not our Armenian culture but the culture that men have adapted from America, Russia, Europe, etc. which are the dominant cultures surrounding our communties.

Thank you Lord for creating this wise being so that he could one day enter these forums and say this. This sums everything up. I think we know now what "tradition" or "culture" spoils women around the world!

Other women. Armenian men just like odar men they screw their Armenian women or lovers royally by sleeping with whomever they come across to (other Armenian women or other odar women). I hear it and I notice it even on these so called Armenian Forums. I have noticed enough to know it.

You know what you can hear a lot of the time here in Yerevan? "Levi gunank, tugherk?" There are so many gorgeous creatures here that men have completely lost themselves. They treat them like toys though instead of treating them the way they deserve to be treated. I don't know what to say. I got out of one of my jobs because of this. It wasn't the only reason but it was one of them. One of my bosses (I used to be the lead designer for a press here in Yerevan) was a complete dumbass ... about 25 years old. He was smart but he treated girls like toys. Sex was on his mind every xxxxing day. He brought pictures of his girlfriends from time to time and one day I saw a picture of a 14 year old on his computer screen by accident. I thought this was his relative, lol. I was wrong....he xxxxed her too. It's not surprising. When this guy was fifteen, he screwed his teacher in the living room while her 5 year old was sleeping in the other room. What do you expect from a person like this. Love? lol. Before and after I saw that 14 year old, I used to have serious discussions with him from time to time when I had some time on my hands, related to marriage, sex, etc. He knew I was serious and teased me sometimes when I talked about proper behavior, marriage, love, etc. He used to say "es vor tivna" or basically times have changed. My views never changed though even a bit and he realized that I could change him but he couldn't change me. That's the kind of discipline that I've gone through and I owe it only to my parents. Anyways, one day, I heard him speak about his girlfriend who he wanted to marry. I asked him if he would stop what he was doing and you know what he said? He said that he wouldn't. Then I asked how his wife would feel if she found out and he said that she's just a women and that she will never find out.....

I rest me case!

Now, I'm not saying that there are no such women with those characteristic amongst us but it'd be really good if we sometimes were more open, self-aware, conscious, self-critical and less self-absorbed and self-assured…

Honey, what do you think we've been doing here all this time?

So some are not repressed, they simply do not have that thing called charm.

I think you just made an important discovery .........

[KanadaHye]

Re: Are Armenian women handicapped because of their upbringing?

No of course not, Armenian women by no means they are all angels. There are some that are the opposite; but if you weigh it against the male population, yes they are more subdued, family oriented, moral and ethical, and they do try to bring their males home. Instead of wondering around if they can.

But this "double standard" among Armenians it is mostly unfair and unjust when it comes to men versus women.

You're giving these men too much credit, their ego's can't handle real women so they go around finding women that don't require any effort.

[Anoush]

Re: Are Armenian women handicapped because of their upbringing?

Yes Saco jan, I hear you loud and clear, and please do not misunderstand me; women are by no means all saints, I mean Armenian women; but if you do a concesus vs. the Armenian men, you will find out that Armenian men do astray a greeeaaat deal more. And if some women that do astray it is because some Armenian men abuse the women by extremely alluring her and making her like a puppet to them - then they throw her away like a dirty rug. But the ones that don't fall into that crappy trap, these are the women that fight against those bad men and their bad habits with their good basic beliefs like a beautiful statue! These are the women that do win at the end, because when they look back they will see that they won over the bad with their good standing and they will feel deep respect towards themselves!!!!

Now about the men, or I should say Armenian men; at least after marriage they should stick with their wives good or bad and stick it out. Rather than continuing their cohabitating habits of the past.

[KanadaHye]

Re: Are Armenian women handicapped because of their upbringing?

LOL, that was a very looong explanation but thanks.

The thing is that whenever I see a 'discussion' (I can't even call it a discussion) about women ( in particular Armenian women) especially on this forum (or elsewhere) you hear nothing but some sweet words about how our women are flawless, charming, pretty and sweet angels… at times I feel that the person saying that is actually referring to herself, lol. Take this thread for instance. Now, I'm not saying that there are no such women with those characteristic amongst us but it'd be really good if we sometimes were more open, self-aware, conscious, self-critical and less self-absorbed and self-assured…

Hey, we'll let you women battle that out amongst your selves, but I'll be routing for the flawless, charming, pretty sweet angels, lol.

And you know society is forcing those characteristics to be oppressed so the only people that are willing to speak their mind are those willing to defend those characteristics in this thread

[Anoush]

Re: Are Armenian women handicapped because of their upbringing?

The thing is that whenever I see a 'discussion' (I can't even call it a discussion) about women ( in particular Armenian women) especially on this forum (or elsewhere) you hear nothing but some sweet words about how our women are flawless, charming, pretty and sweet angels… at times I feel that the person saying that is actually referring to herself, lol. Take this thread for instance. Now, I'm not saying that there are no such women with those characteristic amongst us but it'd be really good if we sometimes were more open, self-aware, conscious, self-critical and less self-absorbed and self-assured…

No of course not, Armenian women by no means they are all angels. There are some that are the opposite; but if you weigh it against the male population, yes they are more subdued, family oriented, moral and ethical, and they do try to bring their males home. Instead of wondering around if they can.

But this "double standard" among Armenians it is mostly unfair and unjust when it comes to men versus women.

[Sako]

Re: Are Armenian women handicapped because of their upbringing?

No Saco jan, not with whoever they want. I don't think men or women should sleep with whoemever they want. But I gather a great deal of men doing that before they get married then it becomes a very bad habit for them and then they continue that bad habit after their marriage and they start screwing their wives and their CHILDREN royally by doing that. Because children feel very bad too - they feel they are rejected and then one day when they grow up they will do the same. The bad cycle will continue. I think that when a man and a woman fall in love they should first find out if they are really compatible to each other, "kaghaparagan antsik en adonk te voch" and then cohabitate and get married. Otherwise that union will not be heaven but HELL.

Just the answer I was expecting from you ! Touche'. Just a sidenote, I've never understood arranged marriages that well and after reading your post, I don't think you have either!

Anyways, so the entire conversation goes back to what me, Pedro, and a few others were saying. This "cycle" started and continues because of men ... not women! So let's be talking about that. I've been saying this so many times. Here in Yerevan, I HATE how many men misuse and I'm not afraid to say, abuse our girls, completely changing who they are emotionally, mentally, and physically in many cases. This happens everywhere in the world though, not just in Armenia, and it has NOTHING to do with traditon!

Bottom line is ... You are all our greatest weakness, Anoush jan, and many don't want to believe that. To quote James Brown, "This is a man's world but it wouldn't be nothing without a women or a girl". Many don't want to accept that, trying to always be ABOVE women but deep down they know their full of xxxx. This world revolves around love and sex. There's a choice though. Some choose mindless sex ... and some choose love! When you divide one from the other, problems start to arise so sex should be a PART of love, not the other way around ... and mind you ... it must always be a PART of love (not love itself, of course) because when it isn't, it's very dangerous and can lead any individual astray, any person at all. If your not careful, sex becomes an addiction...a very, very dangerous addiction ... more dangerous then any drug. When you are married and share it with the person you love alone though, everything stays under control. Sex turns into something else. At that time, you don't "have sex" anymore ... you ~make love~ from then on. Many people confuse these two phrases, thinking it's the same damn thing. It isn't, people. Making love is something beautiful filled with meaning and most importantly, love. Having sex isn't filled with meaning. It's just something people do and it can make you very animalistic if you aren't careful. The sole purpose at that point is simply chasing girls around and pulling them into bed, enjoying a few minutes of your short ass life and moving on. This is what cats and dogs do!!! The other day I saw how a dog screwed her own pup! Think that's bad? Well here's something worse, you can see this happening nowadays out there in human society, not just in the world of dogs, lol. People have become dogs and in many cases, WORSE then dogs, and marriage, tradition, laws, etc. are what keep people from COMPLETELY becoming animals. Men and women were meant to unite. Marriage might be something created by us (we'll never know) but the fact remains that we would still get together. The rules of life have always been the same. They have always been PERFECT. It's us that complicate everything. Life is so damn simple. God gave us minds so that we could use them. Dogs don't have proper minds like us. I can understand them but I can't understand people in general. AT ALL.

My point is that when I see guys whistling at girls, calling them this or that, constantly looking for ways to simply get in bed with them (and I mean every damn day), etc. I think of them as dogs ... not men and I would rather die then lower myself down to that level! I completely understand what your saying Anoush jan and I'm saying it again ... it is OUR fault. If only you girls weren't as perfect as God created you !

I would like to quote a very special line from Hovhannes Tumanyan's Tumbkaberti Arumu which is a long poem. "... Menak chuliner kin u ginin!". In English this translates to "If only there weren't women and wine". This poem is about a king who was betrayed by his gorgeous wife. He was a symbol of greatness. In the end though he gets betrayed by the one person he loved the most and falls, losing everything. That's why the phrase "Menak chuliner kin u ginin" is very significant here. I forgot the paragraph, I just remember this line but overall, the point is that men could conquer, could do ANYTHING if it weren't for women and wine. This shows how powerful women are. It's a very strong poem and I recited it in my college a couple of times a few years back.

Finally, above, I mentioned that women our greatest weakness but I should also add that they are our greatest STRENGHT ... IF we act right, if we treat them properly, and if we hold them in our arms and do everything we want with them ONLY if we love them more then anything in this world. Everything comes with rules and when you break them, problems start to arise very fast. It's completely natural. Many men claim women are evil or something but go out and PAY them to spend a night with them. These aren't men and I feel sorry for them. They realize they can't control themselves and soon start calling girls this or that. Bottom line is if we stay in line, our women are our greatest source of inspiration and treat us right. If we treat them like sex toys, all women will soon become our greatest weakness and will lead us deeper and deeper down the rabbit hole. They will show us what hell is really like, whether we like it or not. People don't appreciate how dangerous women can actually be. I'm serious. This is how men ruin their lives.

I guess my comments above was an outbrust and anger towards our society's "double standard" that choose to give cart blanche to the men to cohabitate with as many women as they want before and after a marriage, then if a girl just flirts a little they "name call" her and say bad things about her and label her like she is sent from hell. It's very unjust and the "double standard" and the "unfairness" makes me throw up quite frankly!!!!

I don't blame the girls, again. Women start to flirt and do this or that so that they will be able to know men better so that their chances of being cheated or making a wrong decision will be as low as possible ... and so they will know the men sitting in front of them better. There are many xxxxxxxs out there. They don't do this because they're hoes or xxxxxes. And those that do simply do so because society has spoiled them! You've seen me criticizing American girls. Believe it or not, I don't blame them though. I blame the American society, starting from the gov.

I completely understand you Anoush jan. It makes me throw up myself. To change this though, men will have to pull their balls together, figuratively speaking (excuse the language kuyr ) !

[Lucin]

Re: Are Armenian women handicapped because of their upbringing?

I did not say all Armenian women neither. The first time that the question of all Armenian women was raised, I was surprised. The second time, I was puzzled. After a certain time, I started being concerned. Do we feel the need to clarify that 2 is a larger number than 1? I don't remember reading a single ethnological or sociological publication where it is said that all members of a given population have a certain characteristic. Maybe revisiting basic concepts will help.

Let's suppose that a certain characteristic/variable C of a population is being studied/discussed. To oversimplify, let's suppose that the characteristic is "actions/customs that repress some of a girl's natural inclinations", another characteristic/variable may be "expressions of the natural inclination to charm".
The characteristic/variable C that is being studied/discussed may have different values or levels that varies among the members of a population P. The technical word is domain. Also, when studying a population measures like averages, medians, deviations of a variable are of interest. In other words different women may be subjected to a different the degree of repression, and averages in one population may be lower/higher than averages in a different one.
When it is said that members of a population P has the characteristic/attribute C, it is meant that the average level of C is higher than a certain reference. At no time it is meant that all members have the characteristic C at the highest degree/level. Absolutism belongs to the past. As I've said before, reality is made of shades of gray and black and white are pure concepts.
Also, when a population P1 is said to be more C1 than another population P2, what is meant is that it is likely that a randomly selected member of P1 will have a higher level of C1 than a randomly selected element of P2. At no times, it means that all members of P1 have a higher level of C1 than all members of P2.
I consider the above as basic, so I don't see necessary to remind.

LOL, that was a very looong explanation but thanks.

The thing is that whenever I see a 'discussion' (I can't even call it a discussion) about women ( in particular Armenian women) especially on this forum (or elsewhere) you hear nothing but some sweet words about how our women are flawless, charming, pretty and sweet angels… at times I feel that the person saying that is actually referring to herself, lol. Take this thread for instance. Now, I'm not saying that there are no such women with those characteristic amongst us but it'd be really good if we sometimes were more open, self-aware, conscious, self-critical and less self-absorbed and self-assured…

"Every single" is equivalent to "all" and I don't believe in absolutism. As I've said above, the same characteristic usually exists with varying degrees among members of a given population, and the same is true of the natural inclination to charm. Regardless of the initial level of the inclination, my focus is how that inclination is repressed and what are the consequences.

So some are not 'repressed', they simply do not have that thing called charm.

Personally, I believe that physical beauty fades away quickly unless the person is charmful, and charms can make a person with an "average" physique attractive. However, physical beauty can enhance a woman's charms i.e. beautiful smile on a pretty face, the expression of passion of beautiful eyes, gracefully uncovered beautiful shoulders, the graceful movements of beautiful hands etc. The "physical support" makes a difference.

I agree.

Yes. That is the main point of this thread: inhibitions and their consequences. It's interesting that some of the most sensual women that I've known were tomboys and had something that can't be tamed that added to their charm

There is something in tomboys that can't be tamed but I don't know why they're trying to hide their femininity, or their female organs. Maybe it's been unique to tomboys I've known but I've noticed that they were not quite comfortable with their chest, one of the most feminine body parts.

[Anoush]

Re: Are Armenian women handicapped because of their upbringing?

1.) That is what Saco has been saying all along.

And Saco was right!

2.) Do tell, who are these men sleeping with? Sheep? Or other women? Hmmm

Other women. Armenian men just like odar men they screw their Armenian women or lovers royally by sleeping with whomever they come across to (other Armenian women or other odar women). I hear it and I notice it even on these so called Armenian Forums. I have noticed enough to know it.

Notice the entire time I've been talking about assimilation of cultures. And this is not our Armenian culture but the culture that men have adapted from America, Russia, Europe, etc. which are the dominant cultures surrounding our communties.

You nailed it on the head. Exactly! Our Armenian men in Western Armenian lands when they were living there were almost like saints compared to today's Armenian men in general. They never drank like the Russians or the Irish nor did they w'h'ored around like the majority of the Russian men or the majority of the European or the American men. Throughout the years living within the Communist regime with the Russians or the Europeans and or the Americans, now a great deal of our men have adapted the bad habits of these said nationalities. This is not a Christian stand and living; for it is far easier to adopt bad habits than to stand with your known moral and ethical habits. It is far easier to be bad than to stay good!

There are some women too, but the majority are the men than women. Now the newer generation of the Armenians are becoming like the westerners in some or most parts of the diaspora. I don't know about Armenia though, but I think the men in there act pretty much like the Russian men, I believe, which is despecable and certainly not good for the newer generations of the Armenian family structure. "Ayo KanadaHye mer Hayere meds masamp gaylaserin gor yete voch arten aylaserads en tejpaxdapar".