Are Armenian women handicapped because of their upbringing?

Re: Are Armenian women handicapped because of their upbringing?

Hello Everyone,

This is my first post here. I wasn't planning on registering but this is a pretty interesting thread.

First off, I don't want to waste response space but I just had to say that I really love the spirit you guys have in regards to Armenians and how you guys have such great long discussions about these important topics.

BUT I also want to mention that it would probably be better to respond to the actual topic instead of quoting bits of people's posts and ripping eachother apart for grammatical errors or for someone not putting a sentence together perfectly. After all, I'm hoping these posts are so we can come to a conclusion and not to prove who is "the most correct" or who can "prove a point."

I apologize for not having read all 18+ pages of this post but I'm going to respond to what I believe is the issue at hand...

I think that Kattie brought up a very important issue, and I do believe it is an issue regardless of how defensive people may get over it. I've personally witnessed many different Armenian subgroups interacting in their worlds and from one to the next is entirely different.

Armenian women are oppressed to a certain degree, maybe not when comparing with a different culture because seriously, MUSLIMS? But relatively speaking if you compare a typical Armenian (let me define "typical Armenian;" been in America for up to 20 years, for argument's sake) with Armenians who have been here longer, you see the differences in a big way. The differences almost make me uncomfortable when I go to events with these "typicals."

Going to post a few questions for you guys to think about...

Ever noticed how segregated the events are? Men on one side and women on the other? Why? Once I get an answer to this I'll post what I've heard from people I've asked...

Why do men go to Yerevan to bring back brides? I'm not passing judgement at all, I really want to know WHY. What reason do they have to go to a different country when there are so many Armenian women in the U.S?

I really feel like our culture puts a lot of pressure on both the men and women that try to make lives in the U.S., because face it, the men are raised to be "breadwinners" but realize that in this country it's difficult to keep a family with one paycheck.

At the same time, society is so overly sexualized that a lot of women MAY feel torn apart that from their family they are hearing that not even an ounce of sexuality is appropriate, while when they go to school/work they get flooded with sexualized images. Way to mess with peoples heads.

And please, do NOT tell me that Armenian men don't beat their wives. I don't know an appropriate percentage because Armenians are notorious for keeping things on the "down-low," but seriously. Just because they walk into a room with smiles doesn't mean they weren't at eachother's throats 5 min. ago.

I personally know that many of these women are in fact oppressed. They are told by their fathers/boyfriends/husbands what to wear, what to say, how to act, how much makeup to put on, what to learn in school, etc. etc. And a lot of times when they don't "act appropriately" they face the consequences for their actions.

In theory, this is all great because it gives more value to Armenian women because they are "raised well" and are "pure," but these standards seem to be more forced than anything. That's where it gets nasty.

Just throwing some ideas out there. I'm not b/s-ing I've seen all of this stuff myself, this isn't hearsay. Let me know what you think.

[KanadaHye]

Re: Are Armenian women handicapped because of their upbringing?

What? Can you explain how it is psychological yet it's neither hormonal nor cultural? What do you understand by hormonal, cultural and psychological?
This is a funny forum.

You can pump estrogen into me and I might start looking like a woman but I'm still going to think like a man. I suppose culture would hold a role since I think more like an Armenian man.

How is it psychological? Let me ask you... can you tell whether I'm male or female just by the way I phrase my words? You probably can.

No, as I've said when someone does not present alternatives and has no clear train of thought. Let me quote Lucin: "Seriously, can you read? "

I can't help it if people are incapable of understanding what other people write. (No offense Lucin, that was more of a misunderstanding which happens a lot when you're not talking face to face with someone) If you find me a bit defensive maybe its because you're insulting my culture!! Something you should be preserving, not destroying.

Yes, and that's what some of us are doing.
I see that you're learning from Anonymouse the art of manipulation and accusing others of what YOU do and what YOU don't understand.

Odd, I take what everybody writes at face value... process it and decide whether or not I agree. If I disagree I spit it out. It's pretty simple.

Don't take me wrong but I learned that it's difficult/impossible to have a productive debate with you. If you want to be taken seriously then you should make effort to respect others. I don't think that you are an ill-willed manipulator and a pretentious charlatan like Anonymouse, but I don't understand why you constantly "bicker and pull strings" as Kattie said. What I mean is that you don't suggest alternatives and I don't see a clear train of thought in your posts.

Really, I wrote:

"Oppression is generally caused by feeling burdened, additional anxiety from adverse conditions. Just like when you get a new job or you have exams at school, etc. As Armenians we all naturally struggle with racism and trying to fit in and adapt to other cultures. Naturally when children see other children whose parents don't care or are living in single parent homes do things that their own parents wouldn't approve of, they have a sense of not fitting in or feeling different which can cause anxiety."

Which part of this statement doesn't express a clear train of thought?

Why would I suggest alternatives in raising OUR children any different than WE have for centuries?

[VartanK]

Re: Are Armenian women handicapped because of their upbringing?

Oh I see... when somebody gives your closed mind a different point of view or disagrees with you it's called "bickering" and "pulling strings" .... my bad....

No, as I've said when someone does not present alternatives and has no clear train of thought. Let me quote Lucin: "Seriously, can you read? "

a conversation involves a panel of people... not just one person talking to him/herself.

Yes, and that's what some of us are doing.
I see that you're learning from Anonymouse the art of manipulation and accusing others of what YOU do and what YOU don't understand.

[KanadaHye]

Re: Are Armenian women handicapped because of their upbringing?

Don't take me wrong but I learned that it's difficult/impossible to have a productive debate with you. If you want to be taken seriously then you should make effort to respect others. I don't think that you are an ill-willed manipulator and a pretentious charlatan like Anonymouse, but I don't understand why you constantly "bicker and pull strings" as Kattie said. What I mean is that you don't suggest alternatives and I don't see a clear train of thought in your posts.

Oh I see... when somebody gives your closed mind a different point of view or disagrees with you it's called "bickering" and "pulling strings" .... my bad.... a conversation involves a panel of people... not just one person talking to him/herself.

[VartanK]

Re: Are Armenian women handicapped because of their upbringing?

Did you anything to change the situation? Would you care to tell us more? Thanks.

I'll have to admit that I did not do much because I did not want to cause trouble, but I have criticized their parents a couple of times. But how much can one person achieve against a community? They are convinced that they're doing the right thing and others around them do the same.
Closely monitoring their interaction with boys, asking them to "behave" as if they were nuns, repress anything that may encourage boys to think that...But anything can encourage boys to think in certain way.
A person who is too closely monitored ends up inhibiting the most natural behavior, including smiling. It's like wearing a straight jacket. As you said you lose it if you don't practice it.

And you don't think this has anything to do with the fact that they became TEENAGERS



Not necessarily, there are differences between biological maturity and psychological maturity. Some people might be mature with one and not the other and vice versa.



VartanK, would you like to expand on what it is your sister/brother is doing wrong with their parenting that causes your nieces to to transform from being lively and playful to being serious and dull.

Oppression is generally caused by feeling burdened, additional anxiety from adverse conditions. Just like when you get a new job or you have exams at school, etc. As Armenians we all naturally struggle with racism and trying to fit in and adapt to other cultures. Naturally when children see other children whose parents don't care or are living in single parent homes do things that their own parents wouldn't approve of, they have a sense of not fitting in or feeling different which can cause anxiety.

Don't take me wrong but I learned that it's difficult/impossible to have a productive debate with you. If you want to be taken seriously then you should make effort to respect others. I don't think that you are an ill-willed manipulator and a pretentious charlatan like Anonymouse, but I don't understand why you constantly "bicker and pull strings" as Kattie said. What I mean is that you don't suggest alternatives and I don't see a clear train of thought in your posts.

Neither hormonal nor cultural I'm affraid.

Think it's psychological...

Thanks. My point exactly

What? Can you explain how it is psychological yet it's neither hormonal nor cultural? What do you understand by hormonal, cultural and psychological?
This is a funny forum.

[KanadaHye]

Re: Are Armenian women handicapped because of their upbringing?

Seriously, can you read?

She was well beyond developping breasts.
:

I understood what you said.... I said that maybe she was teased when she was young and it affected her psychological development.

When you quote me and say that, what else could it mean?

It means I quoted you to carry the conversation and then I stated this has nothing to do with Armenian culture for anyone that might be reading through the forums. Communication is a two-way street

[Lucin]

Re: Are Armenian women handicapped because of their upbringing?

Many people carryout events that affected their childhood well beyond their age.... and I wasn't "enlightening" you.

Seriously, can you read?

She was well beyond developping breasts.

When did I claim that's what you said? If what was being said was more clear and concise, there wouldn't be any distortion.

When you quote me and say that, what else could it mean?

[KanadaHye]

Re: Are Armenian women handicapped because of their upbringing?

Or maybe way too much self-assured... thanks for 'enlightening' me, but she was well beyond that age...



When did I say such a thing?? Can you stop distorting what is being said??

Many people carryout events that affected their childhood well beyond their age.... and I wasn't "enlightening" you.

When did I claim that's what you said? If what was being said was more clear and concise, there wouldn't be any distortion.

[Sako]

Re: Are Armenian women handicapped because of their upbringing?

I thought you actually meant rabbit hole and not Kim Kardashian's.... I appologize... I needed a laugh though

Hey, so did I, no need to apologize

[KanadaHye]

Re: Are Armenian women handicapped because of their upbringing?

I don't think that will work. That rabbit hole is huge.

I thought you actually meant rabbit hole and not Kim Kardashian's.... I appologize... I needed a laugh though