Our Identity

[Sako]

Re: Our Identity

My opinion is, any "letter" that is just a combination of two existing letters, is not truly a letter by definition. Its like having "th" as an English letter… The hypothetical letter "th" can just be replaced by "t" and "h", the same way "եւ" can be replaced by "ե" and "ւ", with no affect whatsoever in terms of pronunciation or meaning. So "եւ" is completely useless as a letter. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Your wrong ! In certain respects, your right. Yev is just two letters stuck together but there is a reason we have that letter. There is a reason our leaders aren't changing that. Like I said, you need to look deeper into Armenian grammer to understand why this letter is being used till now. And it isn't the equivalent of t and h being slapped together. I doubt our grandfathers just woke up one day and decided to create a useless letter, lol.

And its not taught in most of the diasporan schools, I don't know where you heard that.

Your right, I haven't heard of that ... I've seen that.

Almost all of the Armenian schools in the diaspora teach western Armenian. I only know of one school that teaches eastern Armenian alongside western, and they might be following the Mesrobian rules, which means that "եւ" is not taught as a letter. But then again I can only speak for southern California.

And I can speak for India, Armenia and a few other places out there ! If your learning western Armenian then I doubt you'll learn the 39th letter of our alphabet but eastern Armenian schools do teach them. I have the books to prove it, lol.

I'm not saying Armenia should ignore the diaspora. In fact, in a lot of ways, I want the diaspora to have a greater voice in the affairs of the ROA (although not too loud of a voice either). This is especially true when it comes to this "roadmap" nonsense. Its cases like this that the diaspora provides a sober voice to the Armenian leadership, or at least reminds them of what the bigger picture is.

What I mean by the diaspora being a dead-end is that instead of devoting resources to create cultural centers or churches in the diaspora, or to throw barahenteses, those resources should go to building cultural centers in Armenia with the aim of strengthening the nationalist sentiment and cultural development amongst citizens of the Republic of Armenia. All those cultural centers in the diaspora, as sad as this is to say, will be empty in a couple of generations. We have more of a chance of survival if we strengthen the foundations of the only space on earth which can permanently house the Armenian civilization--- the Republic of Armenia.

Without a firm nationalist and cultural foundation in our own homeland, and without continued industrial growth, its meaningless how advanced the diaspora is. The diaspora's only function should be to strengthen the homeland, not to strengthen its own defenses against assimilation--- something that is inevitable.

Hm, I'm starting to see what you mean. But I think this is more complicated then we think. You know why? Because if we don't somehow strenghten the Diaspora ... we will never be strenghtened. So bottom line is, we need a golden balance. We should have say 5 million Armenians here in Armenia ... and another five out there in the Diaspora ... not 7-8 million out there and just 2.5 - 3 million here. With most of the Armenians out there, we have no choice but to somehow educate them and/or keep them informed about they're own country and who they are. To do that, you have to spend money and really make an effort and I don't see that as a fruitless effort. If that's fruitless then you can already consider the fact that you've lost more then 50% of the Armenian populace. I'm afraid I don't give up that easily though and can't live with the fact that we're forgetting our Armenians out there. You say we shouldn't ignore them but our actions say more then our posts. We are doing just that. By only strenghtening Armenia which we CAN'T DO without the Diaspora (forget about that happening) we will lose LOT's and LOT'S of Armenians. Your right, we don't need to build churches. We need to build schools, we need to get Armenians more involved, etc. We have tons of churches and very few Armeninans who actually visit them. So what's the point of building them? It's like building a school but having no students learn in them.

I think they also confuse many of those Latin terms for Armenian ones. Even if they can distinguish between them, and whether it is Russian or Latin being mixed into the language, it is a symptom of a much bigger problem--- a serious lack of understanding of their own mother tongue. Its natural that if you get used to using foreign words in place of Armenian words, that the knowledge of those Armenian words diminishes with each passing generation.

Exactly what I've been saying. So it would be ok if we spoke a few Latin and Russian words but only if we knew our language properly. When you don't, you start getting confused. For that reason, let's start from our schools and stop them from advertising Russian here and there willingly or unwillingly.

I will have to take your word for it, considering you live there. I’m not disregarding the Russian influence (its obvious to anyone who has set foot in Armenia), but I'm still weary of the Latin influence nonetheless, which poses a unique threat because we are thousands of miles away from any latin-based countries, contrary to Russia which is just a few miles away, and which has ruled Armenia for a couple of centuries.

Thousands of miles away ? Are you kidding me? Yekhpayr, we live in the age of the internet, satelite tv, and computers. No one is a thousand miles away any longer. This isn't the 1700's when people had to travel by ships. You can travel with a mouse click nowadays! Most Armenians have learned those English words by surfing the net, chatting, entering social networks, etc. believe it or not. But still, English isn't used regularly like Russian.

Here's an example: A Museum Guide (a relative of ours) that was showing us around talked in Armenian and when we asked her to start talking in English because she knew the language pretty well ... she started laughing from time to time. It was almost embarrassing for her, lol. Its not just her, there are thousands that laugh when you or they speak English. Look at it this way. I never talk English in front of my Armenian friends. And I speak clear and proper English. It's not like I talk funny or something. It's simply funny for many Armenians and is considered by many others as showing off.

Our country isn't as advanced as you think in this field. Armenians aren't as fond of English as you think.

I don't know… ask some of these people what the Armenian equivalents to those words are, and they will probably stare at you with a blank face.

There are many such people but most know that they aren't talking Armenian. Our people aren't that backwards. Actually, it's not very hard to tell that Latin and Russian words aren't Armenian. Many know that the words that come out of their mouth aren't Armenian but neither do they know the Armenian equivalents of those words. We need to change that.

I honestly hope this is true for all major newspapers. It is a step in the right direction.

Absolutely.

By the way, do you know which body imposes the fines on the newspapers that break these rules?

We have linguists naturally here in Armenia that make sure newspapers are printed in proper Armenian. I don't know the exact name of the body though. The fines start from 10,000 Drams though if I'm not mistaken. It depends on the mistakes actually. All the same, it's getting more and more strict.

This is natural considering they were under direct English rule for a few centuries. Ditto for Armenians and the Russians.

Yeah but sometimes I feel the Indians got it worse...

[ArmSurvival]

Re: Our Identity

it's a letter and we learn about it in school's around the world. Don't like it? There's the complaint box !

My opinion is, any "letter" that is just a combination of two existing letters, is not truly a letter by definition. Its like having "th" as an English letter… The hypothetical letter "th" can just be replaced by "t" and "h", the same way "եւ" can be replaced by "ե" and "ւ", with no affect whatsoever in terms of pronunciation or meaning. So "եւ" is completely useless as a letter. Correct me if I'm wrong.

And its not taught in most of the diasporan schools, I don't know where you heard that. Almost all of the Armenian schools in the diaspora teach western Armenian. I only know of one school that teaches eastern Armenian alongside western, and they might be following the Mesrobian rules, which means that "եւ" is not taught as a letter. But then again I can only speak for southern California.

So what are you suggesting, we should just give up on the Diaspora? I'm here yelling that we need to bring Armenians together and make them more aware and your saying we should give up on more then 70% of the Armenian populace. Is that really the right attitude ?

It's not as dead as you think my friend. Many Armenians are going out of Armenia then the Diaspora and for that reason, we have to remind them always where they are from in any way we can. If the Diaspora is a dead end then so is Armenia because we can't get too far without the Diaspora. We have to balance everything out and as fast as possible. Armenia is our HQ but it can't survive without Armenians and the majority of Armenians are outside. That's the problem. 3 million Armenians (MAX) live in Armenia. over 8 million live outside. So ignoring the Diaspora means ignoring our people (plus it slows down our advancement) and that's the worst mistake we can make. We have to give them a lot of attention and at the same time, work things out here so they'll wanna come back. Your also forgetting how much the Diasporans have helped our nation. Now we suddenly decide to ignore them?

I'm not saying Armenia should ignore the diaspora. In fact, in a lot of ways, I want the diaspora to have a greater voice in the affairs of the ROA (although not too loud of a voice either). This is especially true when it comes to this "roadmap" nonsense. Its cases like this that the diaspora provides a sober voice to the Armenian leadership, or at least reminds them of what the bigger picture is.

What I mean by the diaspora being a dead-end is that instead of devoting resources to create cultural centers or churches in the diaspora, or to throw barahenteses, those resources should go to building cultural centers in Armenia with the aim of strengthening the nationalist sentiment and cultural development amongst citizens of the Republic of Armenia. All those cultural centers in the diaspora, as sad as this is to say, will be empty in a couple of generations. We have more of a chance of survival if we strengthen the foundations of the only space on earth which can permanently house the Armenian civilization--- the Republic of Armenia.

Without a firm nationalist and cultural foundation in our own homeland, and without continued industrial growth, its meaningless how advanced the diaspora is. The diaspora's only function should be to strengthen the homeland, not to strengthen its own defenses against assimilation--- something that is inevitable.

They do that, I never said they don't. But I don't see that as unusual. Every country has this and I'm sure they always will. I'm Ok with Armenians talking a bit of latin. I'm not OK with the Russian though because Armenians not only use it inappropriately, they confuse the words they use, thinking they are Armenian words.

I think they also confuse many of those Latin terms for Armenian ones. Even if they can distinguish between them, and whether it is Russian or Latin being mixed into the language, it is a symptom of a much bigger problem--- a serious lack of understanding of their own mother tongue. Its natural that if you get used to using foreign words in place of Armenian words, that the knowledge of those Armenian words diminishes with each passing generation.

Anways, I'm more worried about the Russian as usual because it won't fade away as fast as you think. It has become a part of almost every Yerevantsi's vocabulary. I even see kids 5-7 years old walking around like a gangsta, spitting Russian words around, so seriously, don't try to leave the impression that English is much more dangerous. I told you already, most Armenians laugh when someone speaks English so it's not realistic to think many Armenians will even want to speak English.

I will have to take your word for it, considering you live there. I’m not disregarding the Russian influence (its obvious to anyone who has set foot in Armenia), but I'm still weary of the Latin influence nonetheless, which poses a unique threat because we are thousands of miles away from any latin-based countries, contrary to Russia which is just a few miles away, and which has ruled Armenia for a couple of centuries.

I think your mistaken here. They don't think these words are part of the Armenian language. It's just that people have used them so much that it's become something normal but that's changing slowly.

I don't know… ask some of these people what the Armenian equivalents to those words are, and they will probably stare at you with a blank face.

Nowadays, newspapers are being fined when they make these kind of mistakes.

I honestly hope this is true for all major newspapers. It is a step in the right direction.

By the way, do you know which body imposes the fines on the newspapers that break these rules?

What you described is something you can see in almost any country. Look at India. You know how many English words they use every day? Even if you didn't know hindi, you'd still be able to understand them, lol.

This is natural considering they were under direct English rule for a few centuries. Ditto for Armenians and the Russians.

[Kiffer]

Re: Our Identity

In France too, many Armenians don't even know armenian, because we have very few armenian schools, the old people know armenian but the second or third generation have lost the few they had learnt when they were children. Now many don't know English 'the "universal language. They just speak French .

[KanadaHye]

Re: Our Identity

Your dad is quite right. I have come to the conclusion that overall, western Armenians perhaps speak better/ cleaner Armenian than us, eastern speakers, and this despite the fact that they have lived far from the Homeland for generations. Also, if you take a look at our modern literature, you may notice that our western writers are producing some brilliant works...

I thought it was just me that thought western Armenian sounds cleaner than eastern. As far as living far from the homeland, I think they were able to preserve their heritage better by keeping their culture seperate from those cultures with which they interacted.... whereas eastern Armenians were influenced directly from being under rule.

[Lucin]

Re: Our Identity

Lucin, you hit the nail on the head. Some other common terms are concrete (կոնկրէթ), president (բրեզիդենթ), sport (սբորթ), conflict (կոնֆլիքտ), and official (օֆիիշալ), but there are hundreds of terms. You can pick up any diasporan newspaper, and read any one of the articles written by a Hayastanci, and you will find, almost without exception, that it is littered with Latin terms.

lol, yes, today I just learnt a 'new' word; compromise (կոմպռոմիզ). It's just everywhere, on TV, on the streets, in the newspapers… I had also difficulty understanding and distinguishing these words as they are being pronounced with a strange accent (perhaps influenced by Russian) but now I'm taking notes every time I hear one, I will try to make a big list and post it.

My dad tells me (he reads many newspapers) that you can always tell the western Armenian journalists from the Hayastanci ones, because western Armenian journalists only use Armenian words, and if they use Latin terms, they will put them in quotations to distinguish them from Armenian words. The Hayastanci journalists not only use Latin words regularly and excessively, but they don't even bother to put them in quotations, because they actually believe that these words are part of the Armenian language.

Your dad is quite right. I have come to the conclusion that overall, western Armenians perhaps speak better/ cleaner Armenian than us, eastern speakers, and this despite the fact that they have lived far from the Homeland for generations. Also, if you take a look at our modern literature, you may notice that our western writers are producing some brilliant works...

[Sako]

Re: Our Identity

I know Saco, much to my disappointment, the Judeo-Bolsheviks have tricked people into thinking that "եւ" is a letter. When those mules were reforming our language, they probably heard the recitation of our alphabet, and since it ends with "եւ Օ Ֆ", they just assumed that this "եւ" sound was a letter. The "եւ" is actually part of the recitation in order to highlight the fact that the last two letters, Օ and ֆ, were not created by Mashdots and were added to our alphabet during the Cilician kingdom. They were conducting extensive trade with Genoese and Venetian merchants, and they needed those 2 letters to pronounce their names and their terms.

The logic behind having "եւ" as a letter is similar to saying that "and" is an English letter, because when you recite the alphabet, you say "X Y and Z".

I don't think it's exactly the way you described it (you have to go deeper into Armenian grammer I feel to understand why yev is a letter and why it exists) but anyways, the bottom line is ... it's a letter and we learn about it in school's around the world. Don't like it? There's the complaint box !

Can you tell this is a pet peeve of mine?

Yeah, I can tell, lol.

Ya, this was actually one of the things I noticed in Armenia. I also get this impression from some Armenians in L.A. who are fresh from Armenia. This is exactly why we need to focus on building Armenia's national and cultural foundations, rather than building the foundations of diasporan communities which will just end up dying out eventually.

So what are you suggesting, we should just give up on the Diaspora? I'm here yelling that we need to bring Armenians together and make them more aware and your saying we should give up on more then 70% of the Armenian populace. Is that really the right attitude ?

If you think about it, just before Bolshevik rule, Yerevan was a village in which there were more refugees than actual residents. Right at this fragile moment, the Bolsheviks came in and basically built the society from the ground up. We can't expect this society to throw off the shackles and become a world-class society in a handful of years. Armenia is still in rehab, recovering from the Bolshevik virus.

I agree.

I'm in total agreement. But, we must always remember, the diaspora is a dead-end, and we should act accordingly.

It's not as dead as you think my friend. Many Armenians are going out of Armenia then the Diaspora and for that reason, we have to remind them always where they are from in any way we can. If the Diaspora is a dead end then so is Armenia because we can't get too far without the Diaspora. We have to balance everything out and as fast as possible. Armenia is our HQ but it can't survive without Armenians and the majority of Armenians are outside. That's the problem. 3 million Armenians (MAX) live in Armenia. over 8 million live outside. So ignoring the Diaspora means ignoring our people (plus it slows down our advancement) and that's the worst mistake we can make. We have to give them a lot of attention and at the same time, work things out here so they'll wanna come back. Your also forgetting how much the Diasporans have helped our nation. Now we suddenly decide to ignore them?

So I wasn't just overreacting, there are small pockets of Armenian youth who communicate mainly in English. To me, this is more of a threat than Russian. This is because, we were forced to conform to the Russian language for 7 decades. Its natural that there are still strong remnants of the Russian language in Armenian society. But we have never been under the control of an English or Latin regime, but somehow, many youth are communicating with English or Latin terms. This means that globalism has reached Armenia, and to me globalism is more of a threat than Russian, which is slowly losing ground. Its more of a threat to me, because the Russian domination came through direct military rule, but this English trend is happening despite virtually no English or Latin stronghold in Armenia.

But you can't see this all the time. These kind of people can't be seen every day. How many have you met? I've met very few.

And Saco, you can't tell me that people in Armenia don't use Latin terms while they speak Armenian.

They do that, I never said they don't. But I don't see that as unusual. Every country has this and I'm sure they always will. I'm Ok with Armenians talking a bit of latin. I'm not OK with the Russian though because Armenians not only use it inappropriately, they confuse the words they use, thinking they are Armenian words.

As a WA speaker, I understand EA very well. However, the main reason I don't understand certain sentences is because Hayastancis will mix Latin terms and cover them up with a Russian pronunciation. I always mistake them for Russian words, then someone will tell me "he's just saying concrete".

I know what you mean. Anways, I'm more worried about the Russian as usual because it won't fade away as fast as you think. It has become a part of almost every Yerevantsi's vocabulary. I even see kids 5-7 years old walking around like a gangsta, spitting Russian words around, so seriously, don't try to leave the impression that English is much more dangerous. I told you already, most Armenians laugh when someone speaks English so it's not realistic to think many Armenians will even want to speak English.

He was born and raised in Yerevan. Granted, he has travelled abroad, but his English is so good that he can live an any English-speaking country with no problems whatsoever.

Interesting. Anyways, I don't think he's part of a minority or something ... especially because he knew such great English.

Lucin, you hit the nail on the head. Some other common terms are concrete (կոնկրէթ), president (բրեզիդենթ), sport (սբորթ), conflict (կոնֆլիքտ), and official (օֆիիշալ), but there are hundreds of terms. You can pick up any diasporan newspaper, and read any one of the articles written by a Hayastanci, and you will find, almost without exception, that it is littered with Latin terms.

My dad tells me (he reads many newspapers) that you can always tell the western Armenian journalists from the Hayastanci ones, because western Armenian journalists only use Armenian words, and if they use Latin terms, they will put them in quotations to distinguish them from Armenian words. The Hayastanci journalists not only use Latin words regularly and excessively, but they don't even bother to put them in quotations, because they actually believe that these words are part of the Armenian language.

I think your mistaken here. They don't think these words are part of the Armenian language. It's just that people have used them so much that it's become something normal but that's changing slowly. Nowadays, newspapers are being fined when they make these kind of mistakes.

What you described is something you can see in almost any country. Look at India. You know how many English words they use every day? Even if you didn't know hindi, you'd still be able to understand them, lol. In Armenia, it's the Russian that's being used CONSTANTLY and yes, I agree, there are many English words but I find that to be normal. The Russian on the other hand has completely spoiled this nation. It won't wear off unless we do something about it.

Culture, growth, wealth and freedom go hand in hand. I think we have an idea of what we need Armenia to be... the question is how do the people achieve those goals with so many barriers aka. government.

Just the question we should be asking. We know the problems, let's find solutions. To me, ignoring the Diaspora is not a solution and it's far from reality.

[KanadaHye]

Re: Our Identity

I'm in total agreement. But, we must always remember, the diaspora is a dead-end, and we should act accordingly.

As long as Armenia remains in its current state, it will just be a continuous breeding ground for the diaspora of the future. It needs to be more than a tourist attraction. The reason why it thrived under communism was due to industry. But no worries, the majority of the middle class in the world isn't too far behind in joining the ranks of the impoverished.


"The ideal of a single civilization for everyone implicit in the cult of progress and technique, impoverishes and mutilates us. Every view of the world that becomes extinct, every culture that disappears, diminishes a possibility of life."

Culture, growth, wealth and freedom go hand in hand. I think we have an idea of what we need Armenia to be... the question is how do the people achieve those goals with so many barriers aka. government.

[ara87]

Re: Our Identity

I think that in educational institutions, signs should only be in Armenian (although english and russian should be mandatory classes), however in places like air ports, hotels, certain businesses, can have sings in Armenian/English/Russian, but it should be limited.

Armenia doesn't really have an excuse to have signs, in other languages, as almost all the population is ethnically Armenian, it's not like the USA, where you have towns consisting of a majority of a certain minority (Mexicans, Arabs, Koreans). I mean fine we get some tourists, but it's not like millions of them are flocking to our streets.

As for Saco's bit about his dad and the Mexican, there are Armos like that mexican, in Lebanon anyways, in Bourj Hammoud, there places where there are only Armenian signs, and some of the armos don't even know arabic,

[Anoush]

Re: Our Identity

I know Saco, much to my disappointment, the Judeo-Bolsheviks have tricked people into thinking that "եւ" is a letter. When those mules were reforming our language, they probably heard the recitation of our alphabet, and since it ends with "եւ Օ Ֆ", they just assumed that this "եւ" sound was a letter. The "եւ" is actually part of the recitation in order to highlight the fact that the last two letters, Օ and ֆ, were not created by Mashdots and were added to our alphabet during the Cilician kingdom. They were conducting extensive trade with Genoese and Venetian merchants, and they needed those 2 letters to pronounce their names and their terms.

The logic behind having "եւ" as a letter is similar to saying that "and" is an English letter, because when you recite the alphabet, you say "X Y and Z".

Yes and knowing this I never count the "yev" as a letter as we do have 38 Armenian letters.

Ya, this was actually one of the things I noticed in Armenia. I also get this impression from some Armenians in L.A. who are fresh from Armenia. This is exactly why we need to focus on building Armenia's national and cultural foundations, rather than building the foundations of diasporan communities which will just end up dying out eventually.

Very true indeed. As sad as it may sound but I also don't see much hope in the Diaspora; especially the way that many intermarry with "odars".

If you think about it, just before Bolshevik rule, Yerevan was a village in which there were more refugees than actual residents. Right at this fragile moment, the Bolsheviks came in and basically built the society from the ground up. We can't expect this society to throw off the shackles and become a world-class society in a handful of years. Armenia is still in rehab, recovering from the Bolshevik virus.

Yes unfortunately and with lots of work towards working into the people more patriotism, continuing our wonderful traditions and getting control of our culture and useage of language, in time we shall overcome.

I speak Arevmdahayeren, so its easy to tell I'm a diasporan.)

So do I.

My dad tells me (he reads many newspapers) that you can always tell the western Armenian journalists from the Hayastanci ones, because western Armenian journalists only use Armenian words, and if they use Latin terms, they will put them in quotations to distinguish them from Armenian words. The Hayastanci journalists not only use Latin words regularly and excessively, but they don't even bother to put them in quotations, because they actually believe that these words are part of the Armenian language.

It is classy as well to utilize only one language when speaking or writing. Thus when you speak or write Armenian it is far better to utilize only the Armenian language as much as you possibly can.

[ArmSurvival]

Re: Our Identity

It's a letter and it's taught in all the schools here in Armenia and all the schools I've been to abroad. Here's what it looks like և yekhpayr

I know Saco, much to my disappointment, the Judeo-Bolsheviks have tricked people into thinking that "եւ" is a letter. When those mules were reforming our language, they probably heard the recitation of our alphabet, and since it ends with "եւ Օ Ֆ", they just assumed that this "եւ" sound was a letter. The "եւ" is actually part of the recitation in order to highlight the fact that the last two letters, Օ and ֆ, were not created by Mashdots and were added to our alphabet during the Cilician kingdom. They were conducting extensive trade with Genoese and Venetian merchants, and they needed those 2 letters to pronounce their names and their terms.

The logic behind having "եւ" as a letter is similar to saying that "and" is an English letter, because when you recite the alphabet, you say "X Y and Z".

Can you tell this is a pet peeve of mine?

The Diasporans need to become more aware and the Armenians here in Armenia need to support them and most importantly our country itself. You thought Diasporans ignoring their nation was bad, lol. There are Armenians here that don't give a damn if this country existed at all. They'd it if they knew they could get lot's of money. To tell you the truth, I'm more upset at Armenians here in Armenia then Armenians out there in the world because they LIVE here and ignore everything. They don't do anything to help our nation. Diasporans are going through a lot and many don't know much about Armenia so you can't blame them too much but the Armenians here are a completely different story.

Ya, this was actually one of the things I noticed in Armenia. I also get this impression from some Armenians in L.A. who are fresh from Armenia. This is exactly why we need to focus on building Armenia's national and cultural foundations, rather than building the foundations of diasporan communities which will just end up dying out eventually.

Bottom line is, we're not balanced and that's a big problem. The Armenians here have to help the Diasporans remember who they are and the Diasporans need to help our nation prosper and remind us what's going on. Many Armenians here don't know, trust me. Many Diasporans have better knowledge in many respects when it comes down to politics, etc.

Ya I agree, diasporans are much more advanced in certain aspects such as politics, mainly because they have been around the world and have a better idea of how odars think, and how people in positions of power think and behave. But I don't blame Hayastancis for this--- they have a great capacity to learn, and many of them are just as advanced in these fields as diasporans, despite the tough conditions they were raised in. But when you live under Bolshevik rule for so long, there is only so much of the population that can reach this level.

If you think about it, just before Bolshevik rule, Yerevan was a village in which there were more refugees than actual residents. Right at this fragile moment, the Bolsheviks came in and basically built the society from the ground up. We can't expect this society to throw off the shackles and become a world-class society in a handful of years. Armenia is still in rehab, recovering from the Bolshevik virus.

What I'm saying all this time basically is that we shouldn't divide the people. We aren't Indians, Americans, etc. ... we're all Armenians ... and what happens to Diasporans has to matter to Armenians here and what happens to Armenians here has to always mean a lot to Diasporans. Period.

I'm in total agreement. But, we must always remember, the diaspora is a dead-end, and we should act accordingly.

I've met a few people like this and to tell you the truth, I don't really understand where some of them learned their English. Some of them seemed like Diasporans actually because I doubt an Armenian born and raised here would speak English more then Armenian. Most Armenians laugh when you talk English believe it or not, so it's not something an Armenian would be proud of. I know almost flawless English (Been learning since I was 4, lol) but I never use English when talking to my friends or neighbors or whatever. My Armenian is almost as good as my English and I only use words like "OK" or "bye" from time to time. That's it. Some Armenians speak English (most of the time you find it hard understanding them though, lol) but just to show off or something.

Anyways, long story short, I don't think these kind of people belong to a certain minority. There are Armenians LEARNING English but using English words constantly is something I don't hear every day when I go to the city. There are a few handfuls of Armenians that do and I don't think we should pay too much attention to them. RUSSIAN on the other hand has completely spoiled this nation. Everyone uses Russian words a lot and like you said, even think they are Armenian words. At one point, when I first came here, I was really confused. This is something we should be dealing with.

So I wasn't just overreacting, there are small pockets of Armenian youth who communicate mainly in English. To me, this is more of a threat than Russian. This is because, we were forced to conform to the Russian language for 7 decades. Its natural that there are still strong remnants of the Russian language in Armenian society. But we have never been under the control of an English or Latin regime, but somehow, many youth are communicating with English or Latin terms. This means that globalism has reached Armenia, and to me globalism is more of a threat than Russian, which is slowly losing ground. Its more of a threat to me, because the Russian domination came through direct military rule, but this English trend is happening despite virtually no English or Latin stronghold in Armenia.

And Saco, you can't tell me that people in Armenia don't use Latin terms while they speak Armenian. As a WA speaker, I understand EA very well. However, the main reason I don't understand certain sentences is because Hayastancis will mix Latin terms and cover them up with a Russian pronunciation. I always mistake them for Russian words, then someone will tell me "he's just saying concrete".

A quick question, did the Armenian you were talking to KNOW that your from abroad? If so then I think that's the reason why he was constantly talking English. Some Armenians really like to show off, lol!

I speak Arevmdahayeren, so its easy to tell I'm a diasporan.

The person Arm described and Armenians similar to him can't be seen too often in Yerevan. That's something rare and I don't think he was raised here. Let me know if he was, Arm.

He was born and raised in Yerevan. Granted, he has travelled abroad, but his English is so good that he can live an any English-speaking country with no problems whatsoever.

Where don't you agree with my example? I think the language example is one of the best illustrating our inferiority complex towards some other widespread commonly used languages which are not necessarily any perfect or eloquent...

I guess you have a point.

No, it is not an exception. It's not just me and you.
Personally, I have seen numerous cases among the youngsters and the middle-aged people as well… I tell you the amount of English words used in their daily conversations is not less than Russian… but some choose to ignore it and pass it off as learning an international language… some common simple words that come readily to my mind are client (կլիէնտ), killer (կիլլեռ), effect (էֆեկտ), criminal (կռիմինալ), impulsive (իմպուլսիւ) and many more… lol, the pronunciation is quite funny.

Lucin, you hit the nail on the head. Some other common terms are concrete (կոնկրէթ), president (բրեզիդենթ), sport (սբորթ), conflict (կոնֆլիքտ), and official (օֆիիշալ), but there are hundreds of terms. You can pick up any diasporan newspaper, and read any one of the articles written by a Hayastanci, and you will find, almost without exception, that it is littered with Latin terms.

My dad tells me (he reads many newspapers) that you can always tell the western Armenian journalists from the Hayastanci ones, because western Armenian journalists only use Armenian words, and if they use Latin terms, they will put them in quotations to distinguish them from Armenian words. The Hayastanci journalists not only use Latin words regularly and excessively, but they don't even bother to put them in quotations, because they actually believe that these words are part of the Armenian language.