What profit you expect?

[Musty]

Re: What profit you expect?

Speaking for myself the answer is none....in fact I could care less what Turkey recognizes.

You can restore your long lost honor....or you can continue to live a life of clay, your choice.
Frankly I think you should stick to your governments position on this because any recognition by Turkey will tear the fabric of your society apart.

We dont flatter ourselves about killing Armenians but we also dont think its dishonorable.If you were the ruler of the country and a big minority in your country were about to revolt against you while you were already in trouble with all the world and had to fight against 25 different nations,you would also deported the minorities that are about to revolt for theri independance.If Ottoman wouldn deport Armenians,with the provokes of EU and help of the Russia,Armenians would be a huge threat against Turks so we would have lost the world war so bad.

[gegev]

Re: What profit you expect?

So my question again ; What profit do you expect if Turks admits it?

If a murderer killed somebody and seized his land, home and other property, court for sure will return it back to the people/nation it belonged to. This rule applies in civilized societies. I guess the same rule applies worldwide. Do you think that Turks should be excluded from the list?

[Musty]

Re: What profit you expect?

BTW, I don't think it is worth discussing things with this person. I don't see anything worthy or interesting in his/her words, or any indication of intelligence. I'm not saying that lightly since, as I've said a number of times in the past, one of the main reasons I still visit here is to "rescue" the occasional Turkish visitor from being mauled by some or all of this forums more obnoxious members. But in this case, maul away.

here is an irrevelant story ;
my father died when i was 7 years old.after i lost him i had to start work work work work and work while also going to school.Now im 25 y/o i have my own weaving company as a reward of my hardwork from childhood (while you guys playing games) but besides this i had to forget my english education.If you cant see any intelligence or interesting in my words,it is because i have no proper english so i cant express myself.i wish i had great english but i dont feel guilty for not having it.Life is not fair enough.

I have bad english but i see you can easily understand what im trying to say so what is the problem?I do not need your protection from being mauled.Waste your energy to be constructive about this issue not to ''rescue'' me from being mauled.
and if you really think it is not worth to discuss anything with me you can be sure i can live without your comments or your existence

[Musty]

Re: What profit you expect?

Truth is always its own profit. The problem is not what we gain by the truth but rather what we keep losing (as humans) to stupidity, ignorance, and "blind" nationalism due to lies.

Truth is relative a term in most situation.Truth fancy is different for everyone so for nations.

Mutual truth that everyone admit is ; Armenians died in those years.Turks killed them.

Truth for you ; It was a genocide , planned to destroying Armenian nation completely.

Truth for us ; We needed to deport armenians because they were a threat to us and we already had enough enemies.
If armenians were that ingenuous about this,i wouldnt see comments like ''give our lands back.''I see this kind of comments everywhere not only here.So of course i think there is a malevolence here.

You say its too late for kurds and armenians..and now it is kurds?If you dont have information do not blame turks for committing genocide against kurds.It was assimilation not genocide.Since i think you know what genocide notion really means i wont speak about it anymore.
Btw,while %90 of armenians i saw dreaming about taking some lands from turks with genocide recognisition,your point is not satisfying.

[Eddo211]

Re: What profit you expect?

I am really curious how can you demand land these lands.After Armenian emperor dikran you never ruled the area

1071, Battle of Manzikert, Seljuk occupation of Armenia is when Armenia truly lost its sovereignty............not counting the separate Armenian Kingdom of Cilicia which continued.
It wasn’t until 15th century that the last of Armenia fell to the new Ottoman Empire.

and also Armenians did not came up from these lands.

The land that you walk on.....Armenia was a civilization long before falling under the Roman and then Byzantium Empires but it still maintained sovereignty with no large scale permenent occupation.

Do you know who really were the Malmuks?

[KanadaHye]

Re: What profit you expect?

BTW, I don't think it is worth discussing things with this person. I don't see anything worthy or interesting in his/her words, or any indication of intelligence. I'm not saying that lightly since, as I've said a number of times in the past, one of the main reasons I still visit here is to "rescue" the occasional Turkish visitor from being mauled by some or all of this forums more obnoxious members. But in this case, maul away.

You know how an ant trap works where the ant brings the poison back to the rest of the colony. It might work here


Musty, first watch these two videos... I'm sure you'll recognize some turkish words that are in the first video.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/37525778@N03/4353072604/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/37525778@N03/4352249059/

Second, we don't want anything from Turks what we want is from the state of Turkey. We want them to stop teaching lies to their children. We want the truth to be exposed. The Turks know their government are a bunch of liars but they themselves are afraid to speak up. Look what happened to Hrant Dink http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hjYobyqSkA4. You shouldn't have to live in fear in your own country and Hrant was every bit as much a Turkish citizen as he was an ethnic Armenian.

[Eddo211]

Re: What profit you expect?

So my question again ; What profit do you expect if Turks admits it?
...

Speaking for myself the answer is none....in fact I could care less what Turkey recognizes.

You can restore your long lost honor....or you can continue to live a life of clay, your choice.
Frankly I think you should stick to your governments position on this because any recognition by Turkey will tear the fabric of your society apart.

[bell-the-cat]

Re: What profit you expect?

So that means your profit is ''more lands''
I saw many comments by Armenians that saying '' Turks invaded our lands so give them back...''

If we look to history , Armenians had a country around east anatolia.Armenians ruled these lands only and only in the years of 300-400 A.C.Before and after that time Armenians never ruled this territory.Turks conquered these lands while Seljuk emperor arrives anatolia and they took it from Byzanties not from Armenians.So how come you are the rightful owner of those lands i just cant understand.

- Genocide arguement is another thing , in your perspective Armenian rebellion called as ''Fight for freedom'' in our perspective your rebellions called as ''Betrayal''.Two different perspectives from two different nations That's why genocide thing is not resolved and it seems wont.

Your statement about ''lands that rightfully belongs to us.'' is very similiar with Kurds doing at the moment,they believe they rightfully should own the south-east of Turkey.I may lack of knowledge but i really couldnt see any country called as ''Kurdistan'' in history pages or any country that ruled by Kurds.So how can they demand any land?Turks didnt took those lands from Kurds,they didnt ruled those lands already.

I am really curious how can you demand land these lands.After Armenian emperor dikran you never ruled the area and also Armenians did not came up from these lands.

my english is bad but i hope you can understand me

BTW, I don't think it is worth discussing things with this person. I don't see anything worthy or interesting in his/her words, or any indication of intelligence. I'm not saying that lightly since, as I've said a number of times in the past, one of the main reasons I still visit here is to "rescue" the occasional Turkish visitor from being mauled by some or all of this forums more obnoxious members. But in this case, maul away.

[bell-the-cat]

Re: What profit you expect?

We don't expect profit, we expect dividend... that is a share of the land that is rightfully ours.

Words like yours are a Turkish denialists best friend. A red herring to be used by them to distract attention from the real issue and to whip up the mob. Not one inch of territory will ever be given by Turkey to Armenia under any circumstances, including genocide recognition.

[bell-the-cat]

Re: What profit you expect?

Hi,i am new to this forum but i scanned and read many topics already.I just want to ask ; What profit do you expect if Turks admits that they committed so-called genocide?

The user ''loseyourname'' explained the forum rules like ;

''People of any ethnic background are welcome to post here and to give their input. What is not allowed, however, is any insulting or malicious language, any personal attacks, any ethnically motivated anger or ridicule, of any kind. This is of particular import in the Armenian specific threads, as many of the topics being discussed are of a sensitive and emotional nature. These forum will be regulated more strictly than the general forums.''

My question is not full with anger and hatred , no insult anyone or contains malicious language.

The user ''loseyourname'' also go on ;

''This applies to everyone. Any Turk who comes in and insults the Armenian people, or denies or justifies the genocide will be immediately banned and the thread(s) will be deleted''

So only Turks that admits genocide can access to forum?

''loseyourname'' also say ;

''No ethnically motivated hate of any kind will be tolerated here''

while he already said ;

''There will also be no further threads posted ridiculing the Turkish people, suggesting that they are generally stupid warmongers with subhuman sensibilities who ought to be banished to the far corners of the earth''

Yes this is an Armenian forum indeed but being that unilateral shows you unkind.

So my question again ; What profit do you expect if Turks admits it?

Reply or ban me , i am ok with both.

Sorry for my bad english.Regards.

What profit to YOU expect when you admit it? A great deal of profit from the curing of this serious illness. A nation that allows itself to be lied to, that knows the lie to be a lie, what sort of a nation is that? What sort of nation delights in self-delusions and pretend blindness and is terrified of living without them? What nation can function properly with those afflictions at its heart?