What if Armenians were Muslim?

[Haykakan]

Re: What if Armenians were Muslim?

[QUOTE=KanadaHye;308890]First of all, religion is a civil order. It was due to Armenians rejecting the order that all of their rulers were forcing to impose on them that kept Armenians segregated. This is also why we are naturally rebellious. No matter where we are in the world, we look to beat the system because we refuse to be ruled by others. We play by the rules but always look for schemes to evade taxes and find business opportunities when the odds are stacked against us by the ruling class.

"First of all, religion is a civil order. It was due to Armenians rejecting the order that all of their rulers were forcing to impose on them that kept Armenians segregated. This is also why we are naturally rebellious. No matter where we are in the world, we look to beat the system because we refuse to be ruled by others. We play by the rules but always look for schemes to evade taxes and find business opportunities when the odds are stacked against us by the ruling class.

As far as the role the Armenian Church has played in preserving language, culture and literature, I suggest taking a deeper look at its history. "


If religion is civil order then it is an order no one follows. How many families do you know abide by the "religious order"? It was not much different in ancient times either. Had there not been religion to preserve our language, culture and literature there would have likely been another institution doing the same thing probably far better to. People like to glorify religions by attributing all positive things to it while completely ignoring all the negative things it is responcible for. There are plenty examples of people changing their religions but not their identities as a nation, the albanians were christians once but most converted to islam during turckish rule but they have no confusions about their national identity, the same is true for the kurds. Why dont you guys want to give your own people some credit instead of portraying us as a people who owe their very existance to their religion especially since this very thing almost got us completely whiped out. The church is not the only thing that is armenian because our culture is far richer then that.

[KanadaHye]

Re: What if Armenians were Muslim?

If religion is civil order then it is an order no one follows. How many families do you know abide by the "religious order"? It was not much different in ancient times either. Had there not been religion to preserve our language, culture and literature there would have likely been another institution doing the same thing probably far better to. People like to glorify religions by attributing all positive things to it while completely ignoring all the negative things it is responcible for. There are plenty examples of people changing their religions but not their identities as a nation, the albanians were christians once but most converted to islam during turckish rule but they have no confusions about their national identity, the same is true for the kurds. Why dont you guys want to give your own people some credit instead of portraying us as a people who owe their very existance to their religion especially since this very thing almost got us completely whiped out. The church is not the only thing that is armenian because our culture is far richer then that.

Difference being, it was the world powers telling Albanians what and who they were. They went from being Muslim to Atheist to Christian within the same century. The Ottomans weren't able to convert Armenians (Although the Communist/Atheists seem to have had some success)

[Mos]

Re: What if Armenians were Muslim?

Difference being, it was the world powers telling Albanians what and who they were. They went from being Muslim to Atheist to Christian within the same century. The Ottomans weren't able to convert Armenians (Although the Communist/Atheists seem to have had some success)

Armenians of Armenia are not very religious, even though we all identify ourselves with the Armenian church. The Soviet Union had a large impact on the religiousness of us.

[KanadaHye]

Re: What if Armenians were Muslim?

Armenians of Armenia are not very religious, even though we all identify ourselves with the Armenian church. The Soviet Union had a large impact on the religiousness of us.

I'm sure if people saw clergy being murdered and the state taking all the land from the people, there would be a tad bit loss of faith. Similar to what Americans are experiencing now except it was much better planned and executed using economic policies and anti-religious propaganda.... no direct violence needed.

[Haykakan]

Re: What if Armenians were Muslim?

Difference being, it was the world powers telling Albanians what and who they were. They went from being Muslim to Atheist to Christian within the same century. The Ottomans weren't able to convert Armenians (Although the Communist/Atheists seem to have had some success)

Your analogy prooves my point. It is not religion but the people who make thier own identity. Here you bring up two exaples of a people who changed their religion several times and a people who did not and both managed to keep their identity. Maybe the ottomans couldnt convert us but the genocide did convert many armenians. We armenians are stubborn but in the end we are only human and that is a aspect religion never grasps.

[Mos]

Re: What if Armenians were Muslim?

I'm sure if people saw clergy being murdered and the state taking all the land from the people, there would be a tad bit loss of faith. Similar to what Americans are experiencing now except it was much better planned and executed using economic policies and anti-religious propaganda.... no direct violence needed.

America often depicted itself as "God's country" and Soviet Union as a "evil place with no God". So the growing irreligious sentiment is more natural rather than forced from a state level. Though it's interesting to note that Georgia with all its similarities in history, culture, and religion to Armenia, is significantly more religious than us.

[KanadaHye]

Re: What if Armenians were Muslim?

Your analogy prooves my point. It is not religion but the people who make thier own identity. Here you bring up two exaples of a people who changed their religion several times and a people who did not and both managed to keep their identity. Maybe the ottomans couldnt convert us but the genocide did convert many armenians. We armenians are stubborn but in the end we are only human and that is a aspect religion never grasps.

Albanians are a mixed bag, there was no issues with Muslim/Christian inter marriage. Their recent adoption of Christianity and newly built churches are all due to American foreign aid. America has their little minions working overtime to convert the Atheists/Muslims. It's all political and not driven by Albanian visions of returning to self rule.

Referring to your we are only human reference, that is precisely what I think religions were meant to do... make people realize their humanity (we aren't animals, though some would argue as my Grandfather loved using the word Hayvan when referring to certain people, lol).

[Mos]

Re: What if Armenians were Muslim?

Albanians are a mixed bag, there was no issues with Muslim/Christian inter marriage. Their recent adoption of Christianity and newly built churches are all due to American foreign aid. America has their little minions working overtime to convert the Atheists/Muslims. It's all political and not driven by Albanian visions of returning to self rule.

Albania hasn't adopted Christianity uniformly. Albania has been a traditionally Muslim country, with Christian minority. Though following Communist rule, most people are just not religious. There actually have been some notable Albanian Muslim terrorists.

[Sip]

Re: What if Armenians were Muslim?

This kind of a question is like asking what if instead of lung cancer I had pancreatic cancer. You are pretty much screwed either way. I think the more interesting question would be what if Armenians had been truly the first nation to recognize religions are stupid!

[KanadaHye]

Re: What if Armenians were Muslim?

This kind of a question is like asking what if instead of lung cancer I had pancreatic cancer. You are pretty much screwed either way. I think the more interesting question would be what if Armenians had been truly the first nation to recognize religions are stupid!

Imagine an entirely liberal society. They'd be wiped off the planet in half a generation.