What if Armenians were Muslim?

[Sip]

Re: What if Armenians were Muslim?

I think I don't understand what you mean. What does it mean "wiped off"? If you mean some dominant religion coming around and spreading its cancer, that is certainly a possibility with any small group.

But I don't see why a "liberal" society is necessarily a "weak" one. Maybe I am not understanding what you are saying. Certainly there have been many many examples of non-religious groups that have absolutely dominated everything and everyone around them at their times.

The two big powers of the 20th century (US and USSR) for example were not really centered around any religion (unless you count capitalism and socialism as religions )

[Eddo211]

Re: What if Armenians were Muslim?

In Muslim worlds Armenians are considered hardcore Christians who would never become Muslims.

[Mos]

Re: What if Armenians were Muslim?

To answer this question again : we are Armenian today thanks to our Christian identity. If we became Muslims - there would be no such thing as Armenians today. We would be one of those extinct ethnic groups like the Caucasian Albanians. Our entire history has been a struggle to keep our Christian identity and 1,710 years later, despite the many Muslim powers that have massacred us, attacked us, and tried to convert us, I proud to say we have been successful.

[Sip]

Re: What if Armenians were Muslim?

Our entire history has been a struggle to keep our Christian identity and 1,710 years later ...

Mos, I think this is the basic mistake most people make. Our "entire history" is far longer and richer than just 1710 years of Christianity. So there is no way our "entire history" has been about Christianity. At least I hope not.

[Eddo211]

Re: What if Armenians were Muslim?

To answer this question again : we are Armenian today thanks to our Christian identity. If we became Muslims - there would be no such thing as Armenians today. We would be one of those extinct ethnic groups like the Caucasian Albanians. Our entire history has been a struggle to keep our Christian identity and 1,710 years later, despite the many Muslim powers that have massacred us, attacked us, and tried to convert us, I proud to say we have been successful.

No....it is because we the hard headed Armenians who as the first Christian State have proven their faith as a nation to God and that Christianity has indirectly become our salvation (Gods plan if you are a believer? ), anyway in my opinion. Like you said....it is a part of our identity now like it or not.

[KanadaHye]

Re: What if Armenians were Muslim?

I think I don't understand what you mean. What does it mean "wiped off"? If you mean some dominant religion coming around and spreading its cancer, that is certainly a possibility with any small group.

But I don't see why a "liberal" society is necessarily a "weak" one. Maybe I am not understanding what you are saying. Certainly there have been many many examples of non-religious groups that have absolutely dominated everything and everyone around them at their times.

The two big powers of the 20th century (US and USSR) for example were not really centered around any religion (unless you count capitalism and socialism as religions )

Yes, that's exactly what I mean. Liberal thought doesn't allow for dominance because the individuals who set the laws and governance are already dominating so now they're forcing their liberal agenda just so they can remain dominant.

Capitalism and Communism to me are essentially the same. Capitalism lets the elite individuals control and own the resources of the land while allowing the general public to "invest" in those resources. You can invest in gold but it's just on paper. It's like paying for a Ferrari but not taking it home or ever driving it hoping it appreciates in value so you can sell it. Meanwhile, the real owners are driving it around, picking up women and beating the crap out of it.

Communism just straight out tells you that the elite own the resources and you're a serf so just accept it. No sugar coating.

Mos, I think this is the basic mistake most people make. Our "entire history" is far longer and richer than just 1710 years of Christianity. So there is no way our "entire history" has been about Christianity. At least I hope not.

So which part of our history was the best part? The 20th century definitely sucked.

[Armanen]

America often depicted itself as "God's country" and Soviet Union as a "evil place with no God". So the growing irreligious sentiment is more natural rather than forced from a state level. Though it's interesting to note that Georgia with all its similarities in history, culture, and religion to Armenia, is significantly more religious than us.

They may attend church services more often but they are neither more religious nor more spiritual than Armenians. Furthermore, Armenians are more conservative than georgians. Compare georgian TV shows with their counter parts in Armenia. You will notice less sexual overtones in Armenian shows.

Albania hasn't adopted Christianity uniformly. Albania has been a traditionally Muslim country, with Christian minority. Though following Communist rule, most people are just not religious. There actually have been some notable Albanian Muslim terrorists.

Prior to the 14th century the albanians were Christian. As were the other peoples of the Balkans. However, most albanians converted after the turkish conquest and some of their Slavic neighbors to the north did as well, which is why we have the 'fake' ethnicity of Bosnians.

[Sip]

Re: What if Armenians were Muslim?

No....it is because we the hard headed Armenians who as the first Christian State have proven their faith as a nation to God and that Christianity has indirectly become our salvation (Gods plan if you are a believer? ), anyway in my opinion. Like you said....it is a part of our identity now like it or not.

Why does God always get credit for good stuff and never get blamed for bad stuff? This whole salvation thing didn't work out too well in the 20th century as KandaHye pointed out. Maybe after 20th century its about time to wake up from our happy happy God sleepy time?

[Siggie]

Re: What if Armenians were Muslim?

Why does God always get credit for good stuff and never get blamed for bad stuff? This whole salvation thing didn't work out too well in the 20th century as KandaHye pointed out. Maybe after 20th century its about time to wake up from our happy happy God sleepy time?

Convenient amnesia, people only ever look for info confirming their beliefs, etc.

[Mos]

Re: What if Armenians were Muslim?

They may attend church services more often but they are neither more religious nor more spiritual than Armenians. Furthermore, Armenians are more conservative than georgians. Compare georgian TV shows with their counter parts in Armenia. You will notice less sexual overtones in Armenian shows.

From the Armenians I know that grew up in Georgia, I wouldn't say Armenia is more conservative. Georgia and Armenia are very comparable in that respect, Georgia may pretend some times to be very liberal and so on for their identity issues and fascinations with USA, but in reality the social fabric is still the same. Azerbaijan is a bit more conservative.

Here's one excerpt from a foreigner's experience in Georgia:

Two girls that I talked with in Tbilisi, told me their view of Georgian men, which I would like to quote here, because they were rather direct: "Women in Georgia are basically slaves, they have to serve men with food, while the men grow fat and watch TV." and another interesting quote: "Women are expected to go into marriage as virgins, while no such thing is expected of men of course." Both girls said, they were not yet married, because they could not find any good man.

oh yes it not conservative at all