What if Armenians were Muslim?

[Mos]

Re: What if Armenians were Muslim?

Armenians have a bit more oriental flavor to them than do georgians but we too are occidental. Armenians and georgians are similar culturally, and even ethnically, however due to recent politics and the chauvinism among georgians, they like to think better of themselves. Don't be fooled though, both georgians and azeris know Armenians are legendary and as a result they fear and sometimes loathe us.

I would argue the opposite. We've had more contact with Europe throughout our history than Georgians, and Georgians really were just an offshoot of the us, and really much of their culture is heavily influenced or taken from us. Heck we gave them their alphabet for starters. Though Georgians also have similarities to Chechens. They try to display themselves as a Northwestern european country, and have good PR to do so, but the truth still remains behind all that advertising.

It's unfortunate that current geopolitics have set us apart, at least strategically, but what can you do, as I've said before, countries need to take their self-interest and geopolitical interests as priorities in foreign policy.

[Armanen]

Re: What if Armenians were Muslim?

Yah ... and I am saying why not blame The Creator, aka God, for the bad things too? Why only give credit to the Creator for the good stuff and blame ourselves, "evil", etc etc for the bad stuff? If you are the one and only omnipotent omnipresent ever-knowing and all powerful Creator, you get the credit and the blame for everything. That's just how it goes.

But this has been at the heart of all mono-theistic religion discussions since the beginning of God

At any rate, I think we are giving religion far too much credit. The way things are now, it seems to me Islam is about 500 years behind Christianity in terms of recognizing fundamental individual freedoms and rights (especially when women are concerned, let alone gays). Once they catch up to where the majority of Christians are right now, we'll inevitably have the same kind of non-religious systems like we have in the US (which is still far from perfect but it's getting there). This is also not to say that the Christians don't have a lot of growing up to do either. There are plenty of the blind fundamentalists even in the Christian worlds.

So IF Armenians had become Muslims at some point, things would surely have been different of course (especially in the late 19th and early 20th centuries) but overall we'd be behind the rest of the world by about 300-400 years in terms of the evolution of our society towards the modern-day Globalization and acceptance of all else that comes with it (there is no way to avoid globalization -- you can just sort of delay it).

Globalization is a buzzword, and actually the way the world economy is going there is good chance that regional markets will come to dominate not full scale international trade as we have now.

Evil things happen because human beings have free will, and we therefore can choose to act good or evil toward others. Humans have the capacity for great good and great evil, it is the duality of forces, and all major religions, when we strip them to their bare essentials, teach us to do good.

[Armanen]

Re: What if Armenians were Muslim?

Well of course Armenians in West are less conservative than hayastancis. That being said, I would say the social fabric of both us and Georgia are very similar - Georgia may seem to be more "liberal" from the outside because they are constantly trying to advertise themselves as part of Western Europe, but deep inside it's very comparable to our social fabric.

So if you consider Georgians culturally European, what you consider us?

Armenians have a bit more oriental flavor to them than do georgians but we too are occidental. Armenians and georgians are similar culturally, and even ethnically, however due to recent politics and the chauvinism among georgians, they like to think better of themselves. Don't be fooled though, both georgians and azeris know Armenians are legendary and as a result they fear and sometimes loathe us.

[Sip]

Re: What if Armenians were Muslim?

You do realize that evil exists as well, and one can not blame good for evil.

Yah ... and I am saying why not blame The Creator, aka God, for the bad things too? Why only give credit to the Creator for the good stuff and blame ourselves, "evil", etc etc for the bad stuff? If you are the one and only omnipotent omnipresent ever-knowing and all powerful Creator, you get the credit and the blame for everything. That's just how it goes.

But this has been at the heart of all mono-theistic religion discussions since the beginning of God

At any rate, I think we are giving religion far too much credit. The way things are now, it seems to me Islam is about 500 years behind Christianity in terms of recognizing fundamental individual freedoms and rights (especially when women are concerned, let alone gays). Once they catch up to where the majority of Christians are right now, we'll inevitably have the same kind of non-religious systems like we have in the US (which is still far from perfect but it's getting there). This is also not to say that the Christians don't have a lot of growing up to do either. There are plenty of the blind fundamentalists even in the Christian worlds.

So IF Armenians had become Muslims at some point, things would surely have been different of course (especially in the late 19th and early 20th centuries) but overall we'd be behind the rest of the world by about 300-400 years in terms of the evolution of our society towards the modern-day Globalization and acceptance of all else that comes with it (there is no way to avoid globalization -- you can just sort of delay it).

[Mos]

Re: What if Armenians were Muslim?

Armenians that grew up in the West are less conservative than are Hayastancis, should I now claim that Armenians are liberal? My point remains valid and nothing you said showed otherwise. I never said georgia is not conservative, just LESS so than Armenia. Of course the azeri are more conservative than both, but I at least consider the georgians culturally European, the azeris are barbarians thru and thru.

Well of course Armenians in West are less conservative than hayastancis. That being said, I would say the social fabric of both us and Georgia are very similar - Georgia may seem to be more "liberal" from the outside because they are constantly trying to advertise themselves as part of Western Europe, but deep inside it's very comparable to our social fabric.

So if you consider Georgians culturally European, what you consider us?

[Eddo211]

Re: What if Armenians were Muslim?

To blame God for not stopping evil committed on you or your people is a copout Sip. I am not a very religious person compared to others, I do not attend Church regularly (I prefer going alone during weekdays) or hold our Clergy high (however respect them)....but when it comes to our Armenian Church and my perception of God I am there. It seems it is hardwired inside me. In all reality if you stay objective you will find that Science and God (not necessary religion or bible or human interpretation of it) can exist together.



Edited for clarity...

[Armanen]

Re: What if Armenians were Muslim?

Well, it seems to be a new age policy to worship the Devil and then blame everything on God.

Yes, or people have long since wrote off the evil/devil/shaytan whatever one wishes to call this force. Now the attempt is to write off God as well. And the new religion is self worship and/or science.

[KanadaHye]

Re: What if Armenians were Muslim?

You do realize that evil exists as well, and one can not blame good for evil.

Well, it seems to be a new age policy to worship the Devil and then blame everything on God.

[Armanen]

Re: What if Armenians were Muslim?

From the Armenians I know that grew up in Georgia, I wouldn't say Armenia is more conservative. Georgia and Armenia are very comparable in that respect, Georgia may pretend some times to be very liberal and so on for their identity issues and fascinations with USA, but in reality the social fabric is still the same. Azerbaijan is a bit more conservative.

Here's one excerpt from a foreigner's experience in Georgia:



oh yes it not conservative at all

Armenians that grew up in the West are less conservative than are Hayastancis, should I now claim that Armenians are liberal? My point remains valid and nothing you said showed otherwise. I never said georgia is not conservative, just LESS so than Armenia. Of course the azeri are more conservative than both, but I at least consider the georgians culturally European, the azeris are barbarians thru and thru.

[Armanen]

Re: What if Armenians were Muslim?

Why does God always get credit for good stuff and never get blamed for bad stuff? This whole salvation thing didn't work out too well in the 20th century as KandaHye pointed out. Maybe after 20th century its about time to wake up from our happy happy God sleepy time?

You do realize that evil exists as well, and one can not blame good for evil.