Announcement

Collapse

Forum Rules (Everyone Must Read!!!)

1] What you CAN NOT post.

You agree, through your use of this service, that you will not use this forum to post any material which is:
- abusive
- vulgar
- hateful
- harassing
- personal attacks
- obscene

You also may not:
- post images that are too large (max is 500*500px)
- post any copyrighted material unless the copyright is owned by you or cited properly.
- post in UPPER CASE, which is considered yelling
- post messages which insult the Armenians, Armenian culture, traditions, etc
- post racist or other intentionally insensitive material that insults or attacks another culture (including Turks)

The Ankap thread is excluded from the strict rules because that place is more relaxed and you can vent and engage in light insults and humor. Notice it's not a blank ticket, but just a place to vent. If you go into the Ankap thread, you enter at your own risk of being clowned on.
What you PROBABLY SHOULD NOT post...
Do not post information that you will regret putting out in public. This site comes up on Google, is cached, and all of that, so be aware of that as you post. Do not ask the staff to go through and delete things that you regret making available on the web for all to see because we will not do it. Think before you post!


2] Use descriptive subject lines & research your post. This means use the SEARCH.

This reduces the chances of double-posting and it also makes it easier for people to see what they do/don't want to read. Using the search function will identify existing threads on the topic so we do not have multiple threads on the same topic.

3] Keep the focus.

Each forum has a focus on a certain topic. Questions outside the scope of a certain forum will either be moved to the appropriate forum, closed, or simply be deleted. Please post your topic in the most appropriate forum. Users that keep doing this will be warned, then banned.

4] Behave as you would in a public location.

This forum is no different than a public place. Behave yourself and act like a decent human being (i.e. be respectful). If you're unable to do so, you're not welcome here and will be made to leave.

5] Respect the authority of moderators/admins.

Public discussions of moderator/admin actions are not allowed on the forum. It is also prohibited to protest moderator actions in titles, avatars, and signatures. If you don't like something that a moderator did, PM or email the moderator and try your best to resolve the problem or difference in private.

6] Promotion of sites or products is not permitted.

Advertisements are not allowed in this venue. No blatant advertising or solicitations of or for business is prohibited.
This includes, but not limited to, personal resumes and links to products or
services with which the poster is affiliated, whether or not a fee is charged
for the product or service. Spamming, in which a user posts the same message repeatedly, is also prohibited.

7] We retain the right to remove any posts and/or Members for any reason, without prior notice.


- PLEASE READ -

Members are welcome to read posts and though we encourage your active participation in the forum, it is not required. If you do participate by posting, however, we expect that on the whole you contribute something to the forum. This means that the bulk of your posts should not be in "fun" threads (e.g. Ankap, Keep & Kill, This or That, etc.). Further, while occasionally it is appropriate to simply voice your agreement or approval, not all of your posts should be of this variety: "LOL Member213!" "I agree."
If it is evident that a member is simply posting for the sake of posting, they will be removed.


8] These Rules & Guidelines may be amended at any time. (last update September 17, 2009)

If you believe an individual is repeatedly breaking the rules, please report to admin/moderator.
See more
See less

Was he a hero?

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Was he a hero?

    This account of Kemal on this Australian website depicting the Turkish dictator as a 'hero' is deeply flawed



    No mention of atrocities against Armenians in Cilicia under Kemal, no mention of invasion of Armenia and
    massacres on captured territories

    There was also no 'Azerbaijan' during the ottoman empire, only the Persian province of
    Atrpatakan/Azerbaijan

  • #2
    Re: Was he a hero?

    By linking to such garbage, you actually end up giving them more credibility in the eyes of search engines.
    this post = teh win.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Was he a hero?

      Originally posted by Sip View Post
      By linking to such garbage, you actually end up giving them more credibility in the eyes of search engines.
      Please cite some examples of what you think is the "garbage" (lest we think the "garbage" is your comment).
      Plenipotentiary meow!

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Was he a hero?

        Originally posted by Sip View Post
        By linking to such garbage, you actually end up giving them more credibility in the eyes of search engines.
        huh???

        you mean

        "by pretending unfavorable web sites don't exist, life becomes so much more simple" ?

        perfect for ostriches, less useful for humans!

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Was he a hero?

          When did I say pretend such sites don't exist? I only said you probably don't want to LINK to it. You can still discuss it of course.

          As far as Bell's question, I'll let lampron explain why he thinks the site is flawed (deeply flawed = garbage .. no?).
          Last edited by Sip; 08-14-2011, 01:30 AM.
          this post = teh win.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Was he a hero?

            Mustafa Kemal's role model was a nice italian guy, Benito Mussolini !
            Unfortunately only in German:

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Was he a hero?

              Originally posted by Sip View Post
              When did I say pretend such sites don't exist? I only said you probably don't want to LINK to it. You can still discuss it of course.

              As far as Bell's question, I'll let lampron explain why he thinks the site is flawed (deeply flawed = garbage .. no?).
              I don't need lampron to explain why the content is "flawed" (the main flaw is the subjective and questionable "hero" label), I want you to explain why you think the content is "garbage". Quote me some of the alleged "garbage". The content is actually very accurate and surprisingly comprehensive given its aims andthat is is just some website. The errors are those of omission and lack of interpretation.
              Last edited by bell-the-cat; 08-14-2011, 06:58 AM.
              Plenipotentiary meow!

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Was he a hero?

                'Hero' should be for someone who has campaigned in difficult circumstances to uphold or advance a set of universal values

                Kemal was probably a hero to many Turks because he created a large Turkish homeland (capturing territory
                that was not even Ottoman at the start of the war)

                But not to all Turks because he also persecuted and killed those who challenged his authority after he took power.

                If he had taken genuine steps to make peace with Armenians, Greeks, Assyrians, Kurds and dissident Turks after his victories,
                that would be different

                Many of the characters in that website deserve to be called heroes but Kemal is not one of them.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Was he a hero?

                  Originally posted by bell-the-cat View Post
                  Quote me some of the alleged "garbage". The content is actually very accurate and surprisingly comprehensive given its aims andthat is is just some website. The errors are those of omission and lack of interpretation.
                  Once again, I'll let you and Lampron figure this out. I have very little interest in Turkish "heros". So whether it is true or not, accurate or not, garbage or not, I'll let you guys figure it out. Obviously I haven't read a word of it and don't plan to.

                  Even if it is highly accurate and totally awesome, I still don't think we want to link to it if it leaves out, you know, the little G-word. That's pretty much what I was saying so hope this is the end of the "argument which never was"
                  Last edited by Sip; 08-15-2011, 01:27 AM.
                  this post = teh win.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Was he a hero?

                    Sip makes a good point. He's not making a value-judgment about the linked site. He's simply saying that when we do encounter sites that are inaccurate, sources of misinformation, or whatever, that we make them appear more legitimate by linking to them.

                    When we link to "bad" sites we're helping them and we get associated with them too. I think this gets factored into the way Google (and other search engines) ranks them or something? I seem to remember a way of linking that doesn't do that. I'd have to hunt for this a bit because I don't really blog and so I didn't make note.

                    I've seen people cite websites like this: moreorless (dot) au (dot) com/heroes/ataturk.html to get around it, but I think there must be a better alternative?
                    [COLOR=#4b0082][B][SIZE=4][FONT=trebuchet ms]“If you think you can, or you can’t, you’re right.”
                    -Henry Ford[/FONT][/SIZE][/B][/COLOR]

                    Comment

                    Working...
                    X