Whats wrong with non-pure armenians?

[HyeJinx1984]

Why is this topic still so popular....

there is one answer to this...of coarse its ok to be half Armenian...as long as you recognize it and atleast have some amout of pride from your Armenian half. Nothing wrong with half Armenains...

I agree with you except for the "at least" part... For me to consider someone who's half Armenian an Armenian, it needs to be a conscious part of they're lives, something they actively put forth.. when they look at the world, they through Armenian eyes. Or something like that.

[Azgaser]

Nunechka

Why I think you're a moron? Because you seem to base your opinions on wishful thinking rather than facts. Of course, I could be wrong, but then I want proofs for your perceptions.

Armenian is considered an Indo-European language. I don't know wether it was imposed on non Indo-European Urartians by Indo-European invaders, or if it was the language of Urartu, and that the Urartians, thus, were Indo-Europeans (there is such a theory, you know). All I know is that Armenian has, atleast partially, its roots in the proto Indo-European language. Do you know how many words Armenian has in common with other Indo-European languages?

Again, if you have some proof of that Armenian is not an Indo-European language, please post them.

[nunechka]

azgaser, i will gladely do it asap...

[HyeJinx1984]

azgaser, i will gladely do it asap...

I haven't really been following the debate between you two too closely.. but why are you so convinced that Armenian is not an indo-european language? and if it's not.. what is it? I can tell you with relative certaintity that it in fact is since one of my professors, a PhD in Armenian Language from UCLA says that it is in fact an Indo European language, as do many experts.

[nunechka]

well the only reason that i am skeptical is because i dont like to take "history" just as it is... i guess i am critical of how history is written, you know the rule (whoever wins writes historty); but i am aware that in recent times history has been less slanted...

so if history was written (mostly) by the winner; and you know how our history is distored altogether because of the genocide and all this other stuff, like how each part of armenia has a different story to tell, so this is where i feel like i am being F*&# in the @ss when i read history...

when europe became powerful, after the byzantines, after the romans; it really changed armenians; some armenians studied in france and england, while others in russia and germany, and these two peoples were the western armos and easter armos... each one proclaiming a different story about our past... the western armenians really wanted to be with europe since it was so powerful and it offered a lot of assistance and the eastern armenians believed they were from that area and there is no such thing as indo-europian as it relates to armenians, especially our language...

i know that all professors have disagreements; for example, i had a professor who thought unions were a waste of time, i certainly dont think they are a waste of time, i had another professor who was truly sexist; he thought it was ok (at work! [emphasis]) to look down a girls shirt if her shirt was low enough and that if she wanted to complain she should SHUT UP because she is wearing something that is slightly low cut; the first professor was a labor law professor, and the second was a human resource mgmt professor; so you can see that each person was the expert of each topic that they criticized and were terribly slanted...

#1 i take everything with a "grain of salt"

i think many of us would like to say we are decendants from eurpoe, but we are not, as a matter of fact pure anthropology would say that people started out from where armenia is and then moved UP! north to europe...

think about it for a second: people lived in places were the soil and sun and animals were the most plentiful; so the time that which our decentends were living in armenia (now turkey); had to have been living there fore purely survival reasons; and the northern parts of the earth in which one would need lost of heating or a/c or more things that didnt excist then; well they couldnt have been living there because plants & animals would die in the winter and so would they, so you see most of europe was not a place where the human body can survive without heat, sun, and so on...

people only lived in places where it was the most feasable... the most effective, the most efficient... in general people traveled only to find a way to survive...

i dont agree with western or eastern; i think we should all be critical of every single word of history... for example i know that you think i agree more with eastern armenian history, but i dont; because for example one of the other facets of what is dictated in eastern history is that the iraqi, the azerbajantsi; the georgians, the albanians, etc... all used to be armenians...

i dont know about that... the way a person looks isnt just genetics, i know it is mostly genetics but it is the place that they are located on the earth... like africa vs the neatherlands... they are both human; but boy do they look differernt... different atmostphere, diff sun light, diff soil, diff a lot of things that you can easily point out...

so if there are people that were influenced to belive that armenians were decendents of a physically impossible transformation of locations (north to south) rather then scientifically proven means of location changes (south to north) then so be it; but lets be honest here, armenians didnt come from the north pole or anywhere near it, armenians were living in that same plateu that they are living in now...

my father once said to me, as a half joke "what the hell is wrong with armenians, what has happened to us? when we used to write poetry, and plays, and when we used to be the most advanced in science and astronomy (even compared to the greeks), we used to be philosphers and these stupid europeans were monkies on trees, and now we are the monkies and they are the intellectuals"

i think its fair to say that we dont have latin in our language; and ALL EUROPEAN LANGUAGE are latin based... and even parts of russian and german... look at their letters, if you speak german you can understand english, they are very similar; and russian is also similar... but armenian is so different that there is nothing that can be connected...

we connect them; we want to connect them... we are not connected... we are different from everyone... we are like an endangered culture, there arent too many of us, our language is so difficult to teach... our culture has so many things in it that its hard to teach the traditions... we have unspoken understandings between armenains...

i dont know, who knows really... just pay attention to our everyday words... and english words... see the drastic difference in our "western" culture and their "western" culture...

we are not like anyone... we are our own...

many greek historians have said so many times that armenians are not indo eurpeans and niether are they, but we still dont get it...

greeks are greeks, no indo nothin, and armenians are armenians no indo nothin here either...

we are a culture that is not connected... there is this antropologist (dead now) Margret Mead, she suggested armenian be the international language spoken at the UN because this language was the purest and cleanest of all languages...

but of course that didnt pass...

why? well take a guess, the strong power is not armenia, it is the US now, and it was France, and before that it was Germany... so it was german, french, and now the rotten english language (which has 3 of the same sounding words (two too to, there their they're, where wear, were, buy bye by... etc...) this is disguisting... armenians only have 1 of this and it isnt even 3 its only two...

example: ser, (love or the skin of the milk) and they arent spelled the same either (one is spelled with the soft E and the other with the hard E)

anyway... our laugauge must be protected from politics and popularity... just because it makes us sound like we are intellectuals, doesnt make us european, and what is it to be european anyway, it is only in very recent years that europe has been a decent place to live...

i have nothing against them, but i am not running in a popularity contest... i am not russian, i am not german, french or anything else... i am armenian and there is proof by greek historians that we are indiginous, then lets read the freakin books... Xeneophob (i think) is very OLD (BC time)...

so remember there are arguments from science now that prove that people didnt live there until it was modernized...

i love all you armenians... even the weird ones...

and there is nothing wrong with not being decendents from europe... and there is everything right with proven science and commen sense (they are our decendets not the other way around)

thanks for your time, and please dont attack me without really taking it all in and giving it a day to settle...

[HyeJinx1984]

Honey, I have to be honest... there's no way I'm reading all that. I'll just say that being part of any particular language family (Indo-European, Turkic, Semetic, etc...) depends greatly on similarity in gramar and conjuncture and other such things, which scholars have determined Armenian has in common with most Indo-European languages. We even share some words, for example, "Azad" means free in both Armenian and Fraci (also an Indo European language)

[nunechka]

but how do you know what is "indo" european?
just read it... there is nothing european about our language...

how do you explain this then: what is the word for Cheese in armenian? panir right, well that is the exact same word in india... IDINA is not an indo european language... what is so hard about keeping our language and culture free of political and popular ideas... we are armenian our lanugage incompasses words from other language because of time, like we say merci for thank you but the correct word is shnorhakalutiun... we say pamidor for tomatoe but the correct word is lolik, i can name so many things... and in about 200 yrs two peole just like us will sit in front of their comptuers (whatever that may be) and say, did you know that merci is armenian and french, and they will say well armenians must be decendents from the french culture because of that... or for pamidor, they will say hey did you know that pamidor is in italian, and they will say well armenians must be decendents from italians...

whatever... that is ridiculas... we are not indian, french, italian or persian, or anything else... words are words... our language has all the words in it, but because of many factors, such as for example us, living here in the US, we inhereit words... but our lanugage is original, we are the bastards that bastardized it... we are the ones that have control over out precious language that is one of a kind, unlike anythign else...

we use words in our language now that are turkish, are we going to say we are dencendents of turks? NO WAY!

just read it hyejinx... remember i joined this forum becuase of you... you decided to take a class in armenian... and i shared my feelings of the trip i took to armenia this summer...

anywho... see ya later

[Anonymouse]

but how do you know what is "indo" european?
just read it... there is nothing european about our language...

how do you explain this then: what is the word for Cheese in armenian? panir right, well that is the exact same word in india... IDINA is not an indo european language... what is so hard about keeping our language and culture free of political and popular ideas... we are armenian our lanugage incompasses words from other language because of time, like we say merci for thank you but the correct word is shnorhakalutiun... we say pamidor for tomatoe but the correct word is lolik, i can name so many things... and in about 200 yrs two peole just like us will sit in front of their comptuers (whatever that may be) and say, did you know that merci is armenian and french, and they will say well armenians must be decendents from the french culture because of that... or for pamidor, they will say hey did you know that pamidor is in italian, and they will say well armenians must be decendents from italians...

whatever... that is ridiculas... we are not indian, french, italian or persian, or anything else... words are words... our language has all the words in it, but because of many factors, such as for example us, living here in the US, we inhereit words... but our lanugage is original, we are the bastards that bastardized it... we are the ones that have control over out precious language that is one of a kind, unlike anythign else...

we use words in our language now that are turkish, are we going to say we are dencendents of turks? NO WAY!

just read it hyejinx... remember i joined this forum becuase of you... you decided to take a class in armenian... and i shared my feelings of the trip i took to armenia this summer...

anywho... see ya later

You are being a moron, and yet you wonder why people call you a moron. Do you not know about linguistics, and philology?

[nunechka]

anony you are the moron, and thats why you attack people... yes i do know about linguists, and philology these are the studies of literary language... it is clear to me that if you believe in everything you are taught in some book then you are the moron because you offer no form of true and original critic to any issue... all you have is rhetoric, no substance, i read what you have to say, and its just a bunch of nonsense, the only thing you have going for you is a big dictionary on the side and the spell checker... you are well spoken for those reasons... and maybe you heard a conversation somewhere and read up on the topic in a summary form...

but truly it isnt just what some historian says or what some linguist says... you must be critical of the standard teachings, after all they only prove that the 'white man" is the one who came up with astromony, or science, or any other form of social study... that isnt true... we armenians are not german or greek... but there is more then enough proof to show certain things were invented by armenians like the calendar... like the electronic calculator, like the rubic cubic... and so on...

but no historian will tell you that...

and no linguist will tell you that armenians are original, because we all have a yearning to be the ones who created the mose productive things in this world... so a german guy thinks germans were the one who first created engineering, the light the mathemtical forlumas... etc... however we dont know the unspoken invetor whose inventions were probably stolen from the him or her by a rich b!tch and you can go on from there...

anony you are the moron... you have nothing buy rhetoric... armenians who are critical will not take what some one has written in a book... i know i know armenian professors teach the same thing...

but like i said professors arent always critical either...

anony = rhetoric
nunechka = insite

anony that pic truly does represent who you are

a silly man

[Anonymouse]

anony you are the moron, and thats why you attack people... yes i do know about linguists, and philology these are the studies of literary language... it is clear to me that if you believe in everything you are taught in some book then you are the moron because you offer no form of true and original critic to any issue... all you have is rhetoric, no substance, i read what you have to say, and its just a bunch of nonsense, the only thing you have going for you is a big dictionary on the side and the spell checker... you are well spoken for those reasons... and maybe you heard a conversation somewhere and read up on the topic in a summary form...

If you knew at least what linguistics and philology were by definition, you would not have made the highly moronic post that you did. My guess is, it went something like this. You saw my response. You then noticed I mentioned linguistics and philology, you then looked up the definitions online to see if they are related, and then you proceeded to type here "...Of course I know what those are...". And in an effort to hide your obvious lack of insight ( ironically which you claim to possess ) you go on trying to divert that by saying "you're all rhetoric, I'm all insight".

but truly it isnt just what some historian says or what some linguist says... you must be critical of the standard teachings, after all they only prove that the 'white man" is the one who came up with astromony, or science, or any other form of social study... that isnt true... we armenians are not german or greek... but there is more then enough proof to show certain things were invented by armenians like the calendar... like the electronic calculator, like the rubic cubic... and so on...

This is where you sound even more silly. Being critical of standard teachings, is not the same as adopting the nihilistic scent of Marx and the reality-bankrupt post-modern cliches. Astronomy was certainly the inheritor of a more ancient tradition of astrology, and yes astronomy has had its greatest advances among white people, and who we attribute the entire idea of space travel to, and also the white people are the ones who have made the greatest strides in science. Such is not because there is a lack of critical thinking, but simply the way things are, even though a bunch of egalitarian post-modernists like you might not like it. As far as the calendar, it wasn't just Armenians. Many cultures have invented calendars, and this was particularly the pattern in antiquity, based on astrological teachings.

but no historian will tell you that...

and no linguist will tell you that armenians are original, because we all have a yearning to be the ones who created the mose productive things in this world... so a german guy thinks germans were the one who first created engineering, the light the mathemtical forlumas... etc... however we dont know the unspoken invetor whose inventions were probably stolen from the him or her by a rich b!tch and you can go on from there...

anony you are the moron... you have nothing buy rhetoric... armenians who are critical will not take what some one has written in a book... i know i know armenian professors teach the same thing...

but like i said professors arent always critical either...

anony = rhetoric
nunechka = insite

anony that pic truly does represent who you are

a silly man

It seems it is a common pattern among self-styled 'critical thinkers' that somehow, if they paint the opposing side as "buying into textbooks" that this little ad hominem might elevate their argument to a more 'serious' and 'educated' stance, as in people will take them more seriously because they pointed out that theirs is the sanctified version of thought, while the opposing side is sanitized text book regurgitation. In reality it only serves as a poor reminder of the desperate measures desperate people are often forced to take. In your case, it is your statement that somehow I am a victim of "text books" and that you are the critical thinker, and those like you are the purveyors of knowledge.

Based on childish and silly attempts to somehow discredit languages, or the study of languages, by appealing to your ignorance hardly makes matters clear. Why do you assume that I believe everything I read? I can very well accuse you of being that. Such is the tactics of children in the play field. By suggesting that because Armenians use the word "merci", which is French, that the Armenian language is not classified as Indo-European, is silly. The scientific study of languages is not concerned with the everyday vernacular of peoples', which may include slang, or even yelling. In your silly example the word "merci" is French obviously, thanks to linguistics, which is the scientific study of languages. It concerns itself with every aspect of language, be it cognitive, phonetic, phonemic, syntax, semantics, acquisition. Armenian is so precise and in fact, is one of the most phonetically precise languages, that a famous anthropologist by the name of Margaret Mead suggested that Armenian be an international language, hardly the hallmark of what you are describing. Now, quit while you can, before you make yourself look even worse.