Should Armenian women stay Pure for marriage?

[Siamanto]

It goes without saying that we would all prefer a virgin, and it saddens all of us (those that care about preserving our culture) when we see Armenian girls with otars.

First of all, I don't see a direct relation between the first and second parts of your sentence.

Second of all, virginity has little - if any - weight in my appreciation of a woman - whether my intention is to marry her or not. I understand that virginity MAY reflect self-respect, strong will, character etc.; but it MAY also reflect narrow mindedness, servility, an emotionally disturbed individual etc. I never perceived non-virgin women less respectable than virgin women. Am I missing the point?

[ddd]

First of all, I don't see a direct relation between the first and second parts of your sentence.

Someone mentioned the attitude ace showed drew girls away from armenian guys.

Second of all, virginity has little - if any - weight in my appreciation of a woman - whether my intention is to marry her or not. I understand that virginity MAY reflect self-respect, strong will, character etc.; but it MAY also reflect narrow mindedness, servility, an emotionally disturbed individual etc. I never perceived non-virgin women less respectable than virgin women. Am I missing the point?

Given all traits constant on 2 identical women, would you not choose the virgin over the non-virgin?

Virginity most likely will reflect self-respect, strong will, character etc, on non-retarded women, and may but most likely will not reflect narrow mindedness, servility, an emotionally disturbed individual etc.

[Siamanto]

Someone mentioned the attitude ace showed drew girls away from armenian guys.

In other words, we agree that there exists no relation between the two parts.

Given all traits constant on 2 identical women, would you not choose the virgin over the non-virgin?

First of all, the hypothetical situation seems a bit unlikely. If that was a possibility, then it would mean that virginity is irrelevant to what a woman is or represents.
In any case, I would probably flip a coin.

Virginity most likely will reflect self-respect, strong will, character etc, on non-retarded women, and may but most likely will not reflect narrow mindedness, servility, an emotionally disturbed individual etc.

Your opinion does not correspond to my experience and observations. Can it be that reality is a bit more diverse and "illogical" - because reality is not meant to be logical - than the simplified model you use to perceive and analyze it?

[ddd]

In other words, we agree that there exists no relation between the two parts.

I didn't say it implying there exists a relationship, but if being a non-virgin girl is a turn off to Armenian men, then the female would certainly end up marrying an otar, given the trouble she would have getting an Armenian man she's interested in to be serious with her.

First of all, the hypothetical situation seems a bit unlikely. If that was a possibility, then it would mean that virginity is irrelevant to what a woman is or represents.
In any case, I would probably flip a coin.

You would choose virgin, and we both know it.

Your opinion does not correspond to my experience and observations. Can it be that reality is a bit more diverse and "illogical" - because reality is not meant to be logical - than the simplified model you use to perceive and analyze it?

Nope, it can't, it's the beauty of a generalization, ie using phrases such as "most probable."

I will admit that I should have used "virginity amongst armenian women."

[D3ADSY]

I actually am about to turn 16 on the 21st.

And you've already done things to women which you basically said only a pornstar would accept being done to her. See my problem with you and this thread? Primarily with you.

[ace]

I don't think that we have gained respectability because Armenian women were virgins; that was the case in all cultures - more so in cultures that never inspired respect. Women were oppressed in all cultures - at least, in all patriarchal societies. Also, the changes - positive or not - in the habits and mentalities are mainly explained by the changing conditions of life in the societies where we live- i.e. not necessarily from a cultural point of view.

Fair enough.

I fail to understand in your perception the strong correlation between abstinence and "purity" or respectability, as if an abstinent individual - man or woman - was more likely to be respectable than a non-abstinent one.
Personally, I chose to be faithful to the woman that I love and respect; but, I'm not sure if the rate of respectable individuals is higher among abstinent individuals. The reasons of my choice are many; such as respect of her feelings, stability, expression of the sincerity of my feelings towards her etc.

Well that was my opionin.

I wonder if domestic violence does not cause more deaths than AIDS. Even in a country like France, domestic violence takes the life of a woman every 3-4 days.

Not in Armenia.

Finally, I think that - most likely - women lose their virginity rather because of the "male" hormones than the "female" hormones i.e. pressured - read "bullied, hustled, forced, raped, etc." - into having sex by a male partner.

In the republic, because of the way our society feels about this issue. Very rarely is a woman bullied...hustled...raped...forced by a male partner into having sex. The society your speaking of is the western...American...or FRENCH society. Things like that dont happen in Armenia because the woman is more valued. It takes a very intelligent man to understand that Armenian man who demand abstinance from a woman aren't sexist, but the exact opposite, the woman is more valued.

I can't explain the way I feel in any other way, you think its sexist. I suggest you take a trip to Armenia (if you havent already) and explore this issue. You'll maybe appreciate the way I feel and understand my intentions.

[ace]

And you've already done things to women which you basically said only a pornstar would accept being done to her. See my problem with you and this thread? Primarily with you.

Hey...I cant help being sexy at 15.

Kidding. I've replied to that like 5 times already. Can you try reading for once you xxxxtard? I think my experience made me understand alot of things as well, so, until you've been in that situation, you would have no idea what I am talking about.

Neway Im done with this. I've shared all opionins.

[Siamanto]

I didn't say it implying there exists a relationship, but if being a non-virgin girl is a turn off to Armenian men, then the female would certainly end up marrying an otar, given the trouble she would have getting an Armenian man she's interested in to be serious with her.

Thanks. I understood it the first time! The way you have phrased it was ambiguous; that's all.

You would choose virgin, and we both know it.

"Given all traits constant on 2 identical women" - as you said - I would safely flip a point.
Can you accept the fact that the world i.e. reality may not necessarily fit into the simplified model you use to understand it?
Ironically, you don't seem to notice that your hypothesis simply implies the irrelevance of virginity to what a woman is or represents.

P.S. Actually, there are reasons why - and/or situations when - one would prefer a non-virgin. A non-virgin woman does not necessarily mean an "easy" woman.

Nope, it can't, it's the beauty of a generalization, ie using phrases such as "most probable."

I will admit that I should have used "virginity amongst armenian women."

My reply took into account the "most probable" nuance. Please contemplate the possibility that the world may not always fit in your simplified model.
Armenian or not, many women have been raped - in one way or another - and became as respectable as any virgin would become; and much more respectable than many narrow minded virgin bigots.
Also, among those who have willingly lost their virginity, some are very respectable; others less. As I have said earlier, I'm not sure if the rate of respectability is higher among the virgin population. All depends on what "respectability" means.

[Siamanto]

I fail to understand in your perception the strong correlation between abstinence and "purity" or respectability, as if an abstinent individual - man or woman - was more likely to be respectable than a non-abstinent one.
Personally, I chose to be faithful to the woman that I love and respect; but, I'm not sure if the rate of respectable individuals is higher among abstinent individuals. The reasons of my choice are many; such as respect of her feelings, stability, expression of the sincerity of my feelings towards her etc.

Well that was my opionin.

What was your opinion? Thanks!

I wonder if domestic violence does not cause more deaths than AIDS. Even in a country like France, domestic violence takes the life of a woman every 3-4 days.

Not in Armenia.

How can you state that when domestic violence is a serious issue in Armenia; much much more than in France? Once I open my boxes, I will try to find an article - with statistics - on domestic violence in Armenia. I wonder what the numbers are in the US.

In the republic, because of the way our society feels about this issue. Very rarely is a woman bullied...hustled...raped...forced by a male partner into having sex. The society your speaking of is the western...American...or FRENCH society. Things like that dont happen in Armenia because the woman is more valued.

You have a point.

It takes a very intelligent man to understand that Armenian man who demand abstinance from a woman aren't sexist, but the exact opposite, the woman is more valued.

You'll have to admit that, initially, you expressed feelings that suggest "male supremacy." Later, you have moderated your views; at least, how you express them.
If I understand you correctly, you are saying that the role of a woman in building a family - and by extension, a society - is such that a woman should abstain from sex. I can appreciate the concern, but I'm not sure that virginity is necessarily the most adapted and fair answer/solution. For me, virginity is neither a necessary, nor sufficient condition of respectability. For me, respectability matters.

I can't explain the way I feel in any other way, you think its sexist. I suggest you take a trip to Armenia (if you havent already) and explore this issue. You'll maybe appreciate the way I feel and understand my intentions.

Your views are neither novel nor unheard. We simply don't agree with all aspects of it, specially your justifications; you are a bad attorney!

[ace]

What was your opinion? Thanks!

That abstinance amongst Armenian women represents self-respect. That is in an opionin.

How can you state that when domestic violence is a serious issue in Armenia; much much more than in France? Once I open my boxes, I will try to find an article - with statistics - on domestic violence in Armenia. I wonder what the numbers are in the US.

Domestic violence is an issue. But it does not take the lives of a woman every 3-4 days. That happens in the society that we are assimilating into. Domestic violence is an issue in every corner of the globe.

Domestic violence is a major issue in Armenia though. We need to be as responsible with that as we are with anything else about our culture.

You'll have to admit that, initially, you expressed feelings that suggest "male supremacy." Later, you have moderated your views; at least, how you express them.
If I understand you correctly, you are saying that the role of a woman in building a family - and by extension, a society - is such that a woman should abstain from sex. I can appreciate the concern, but I'm not sure that virginity is necessarily the most adapted and fair answer/solution. For me, virginity is neither a necessary, nor sufficient condition of respectability. For me, respectability matters.

Well, make sure you understand me correctly this time. I am saying, by comparing the Armenian society, and the society we are assimilating into, you can see that they have un-necessary problems that can be controlled and fixed through...I dunno...I guess discipline and respect. Issues like HIV...we shouldn't have that if people practiced self control....issues like divorce...it has become so accepted in western culture that marriage has become a "trial and error" kind of thing...issues like kids dropping out of highschool...according to the reason for drop outs in America...which is lack of financial support in a family, thus, the kid has to work - Armenia should have a 70% dropout rate considering its current economical status. Why doesn'it it? Because Our people are more disciplined and have our priorities straight. What do I think does this have to do with a womans abstinance? Nothing that can be proven. But, most peoples defense, including everyones that has responded to me, says in some way shape or form "we need to get rid of our old fashioned ideas and be more like the western socities." Like...

Well, then maybe you should ask yourself whether the problem is with your old-school views rather than everyone else being somehow illogical.

According the facts and statistics, no, we shouldn't. Western society is not all its cracked up to be. If the ideas of a society reflect how it is, we are the "better" society.

Your views are neither novel nor unheard. We simply don't agree with all aspects of it, specially your justifications; you are a bad attorney!

You just dont agree with the "abstinance usually signifies respect for ones body and future life partner." Logically, I can't see how it doesn't. But I guess thats an opionin.