Armenian surnames?

[sergeyisanov]

Before I initiate a discussion, I need to introduce myself.
I am relatively a new member to the armenianclub.
I am a Russian, whose gradma (mother's mum) is Armenian. But I cannot say I feel close affinity to Armenian culture.
And finally for the time being I am living in Turkey.

As most of the members of this forum, many Armenians I came across hitherto hated anything Turkish. But many of them had Turkish surmanes, mainly those which generally explained their ancestors' professions. (like Demirchjian, Dokmejian, Bastirmajian etc).

After the independence of Israel, many Israelis had given up the surnames they used to carry while they were in diaspora and had adopted pure Hebrew ones.

If I was an Armenian who hated Turks, I would do just as the Israelis did, and get rid of a Turkish label on myself.

[Էլիա]

Re: Armenian surnames?

Bastirma is Turkish? Are you sure?

[sergeyisanov]

Re: Armenian surnames?

Although the product itself (Bastirma) is 100% Armenian, the word defining it is Turkish. It is derived from the Turkish verb "bastirmak", which means to press-squeeze.

In Turkish language the product itself is called "Pastirma", probably because the letter "բ" is read in western Armenian as "p", unlike "b" in eastern Armenian, and Turks had accepted the way how the Constantinople Armenians named it.

Even if "Bastima" is 100% Armenian word, what changes? There are thousands of Armenian with Turkish surnames. E.g., one of the fedayeens who attacked Ankara Airport in 1982 (and who was later executed) was called "Levon Ekmekchian" (Baker or Breadmaker)...

[armo_origin]

Re: Armenian surnames?

Bastirma isn't 100% Armenian, several cultures are familar with it, like the Greeks, Albanians, Serbs etc.

[Lucin]

Re: Armenian surnames?

As most of the members of this forum, many Armenians I came across hitherto hated anything Turkish. But many of them had Turkish surmanes, mainly those which generally explained their ancestors' professions. (like Demirchjian, Dokmejian, Bastirmajian etc).

LOL, these names might be Turkish, but Turkish is a distorted mélange of Persian and Arabic (In case you didn't know) …Might sound painful…

[Selpak]

Re: Armenian surnames?

demirci, dökmek, pastirma, ekmek.. are %100 turkish words. And Pastirma is 100% turkish, at least it doesn't belong to "Eastern Armenia". Greeks, Albanians, Serbs doesn't know it. Bastirma is known in ME where ex Anatolian Armenian minorities live.

After the independence of Israel, many Israelis had given up the surnames they used to carry while they were in diaspora and had adopted pure Hebrew ones.

Erol Haker is one of them. His autobiography was translated also in to turkish. "istanbul'dan kudüs'e bir kimlik arayışı"

[sergeyisanov]

Re: Armenian surnames?

LOL, these names might be Turkish, but Turkish is a distorted mélange of Persian and Arabic (In case you didn't know) …Might sound painful…

Excuse me Lucin, I don't know where you are from. If you are living in the US I can understand why you are so ignorant about the languages of the orient.

As a person, who is quite an expert about foreign languages, I can assure you that the Turkish language that I learned up-to-date is something more than a melange of Farsi or Arabic. Of course it is not as melodic as Farsi, or as rich as Arabic, but its gramar is very very different from them.

Your comment did not sound me painful, but I think my question about the surnames was quite painful. Because noone, except who seem to be Turks, dared to answer it.

[sergeyisanov]

Re: Armenian surnames?

And, I may be mistaken wheter Basturma is 100% Armenian or not. But I am sure it is not Turkish, except its name. Because if it was Turkish, people living in Central Asia would have an idea about it. You can never smell "chemen" at any inch Central Asia.

[karoaper]

Re: Armenian surnames?

And, I may be mistaken wheter Basturma is 100% Armenian or not. But I am sure it is not Turkish, except its name. Because if it was Turkish, people living in Central Asia would have an idea about it. You can never smell "chemen" at any inch Central Asia.

Sergey, this question is not painful. It's just a bit hard to answer, because you are asking few tens of people (active forumers here) why thousands (how did you get this number btw) of people haven't changed their family names. The reason for Turkish Armenian names is simple: since all trade and skilled occupation was in the hands of non-Turks, some Armenian families, specialized in a certain trade used the title of the trade in Turkish (the language of the country, where these minorities lived) in order to improve business.

Now, I would suggest that in general for Armenians, surnames are relatively sacred, because it ties you to all your ancestors, and changing one's surname is not a very light decision. In general these surnames were not a mark of shame, they were indeed a mark of Armenian ingenuity and relevance in a society as the skilled workers. The surnames that I think Armenians need to change are the ones that were adopted in order to seem more Turkish (usually removing the Armenian ending, leaving only a Turkish root). As far as I know there are very few Armenians with those surnames.

Finally, about Turkish. I'm not an expert, but I have talked to many people who spoke Turkish, Farsi, Arabic, and while it certainly has a basis that in not Arabic or Farsi - belongs to Uralo-Altaic group - the words that make up the overwhelming majority are based on either Arabic or Farsi. That's in line with the history of Turkic tribes, who were for the lack of a better word nomadic barbarians. Upon running into civilized nations, they adopted traditions, music, art, and language (vocabulary) pertaining to these aspects of culture.

P.S. Lucin is from Iran, if not I'm not mistaken, so I would think she might know more about the makeup of Turkish than you.

[Lucin]

Re: Armenian surnames?

Excuse me Lucin, I don't know where you are from. If you are living in the US I can understand why you are so ignorant about the languages of the orient.

Someone with an IQ below 10 could understand where I’m from.

As a person, who is quite an expert about foreign languages, I can assure you that the Turkish language that I learned up-to-date is something more than a melange of Farsi or Arabic. Of course it is not as melodic as Farsi, or as rich as Arabic, but its gramar is very very different from them.

LOL, oh really? Can you teach me a few Farsi words (or Arabic)? Please, just one word…

Your comment did not sound me painful, but I think my question about the surnames was quite painful. Because noone, except who seem to be Turks, dared to answer it.

Actually the surnames indicate how Turkic genes hold no intellect; obviously, the whole empire’s economy and industry were being run by Armenians…
By the way, you don’t feel close affinity with Armenian culture, so why would it be so painful for you? The more painful reality is the Turks posing as Armenians...

Ps: Over 70% of Turkish (or Azeri) is Persian/Arabic