Your Greek Friends Stand Beside You!

[Gavur]

Ok ...lets play your game,
Can you show me historically when did Byzans deported Armenians?Byzans always had a policy of keeping their small neighbors as buffer states so it wouldnt be in their self-interest to move Armenians.

[hitite]

http://www.armeniaemb.org/DiscoverArmenia/Diaspora/HistoryofDiaspora.htm

The Armenian Diaspora ( Spyurk)

Historical Background
Due to its strategic geopolitical position, Armenia has throughout its history served as a stage of confrontation between the leading powers of the Western Asia . The long-winding military conflict between the Roman and its successor Byzantine Empire and Persia culminated, in 387 AD, with the loss of the Armenian statehood as Armenia was for the first time in its history divided between those two states. The date can be conditionally set as the beginning of the Armenian Diaspora as hereafter the mass emigration from the homeland would come to be one of defining factors of the history of the Armenian people.

In centuries since, just like any other people anywhere in the world, the Armenian emigration from their homeland would be caused by three main factors: economic, religious, and political. In addition to these, the Armenian people, left without an independent government of their own, were also driven out by the foreign potentates' policy of ethnic persecution and oppression. Consequently, the mass migration of the Armenians had occurred in variety of directions and forms, whether voluntary or forced, by way of deportation and repatriation, across many states or even continents.

Already in 3rd and 4th centuries AD, during the reigns of Persian Sassanian Kings Ardashir and Shapur II, the first recorded mass deportation of the Armenians took place. The Armenians were forcibly relocated in the Khuzistan and other regions of Persia . The Byzantine policy of displacing the indigenous Armenian population was of more consistent nature: for several centuries the Armenians were forced to relocate to the western regions of the Empire, including the Balkan regions of Thrace and Macedonia . The emigration of the Armenian nobility and military elite resulted in their diffusion into the highest ranks of the Byzantine government system, culminating in the establishment of the Macedonian or Armenian imperial dynasty (867-1057).

Gavur. Do you consider forced relocatıon as Genocide? Think about it, with the decline of the Muslim empire the Greeks did not need an Armenian buffer any more. How polite do you think the "real" Orthodox Greeks behaved towards the heathen Armenian Orthodox population then.

Gavur, in the same way a Turk may be typical of denial you are typical of the "Armenian Genocide Recognition whatever it takes" position. I guess you really dont care if a few thousand or million Armenians were killed by Greeks, you really dont give a xxxx because it doesn't quite help support your current day cause, does it? You make me as sick as that Greek politician.

Funnily enough its quite evident in the above article that Persians/Iranians the very good friends of Armenia and Armenians today were the first to ever relocate Armenians and thus commit genocide; and the Greeks came next.

[Joseph]

Thanks for the sincere answer Joseph. Disdain would not be the right word since your alliance is totally natural even though it feeds the widely believed conspiracy that the whole world is against Turkey. Armo-Greek relations would probably be strong even without Turkey due to a considerably heavy peripheral islamic existance but it would have been nice to see how the partitioning of certain parts of Turkey, like Trabzon, would turn out to be like. Nevertheless Greek-Turkish relations are at their best since decades.

Steph: Greco-Armenian relations are old but I think you would also accept that they have not always been to the likes of St. Valentine. Dont forget it was the Greeks who first created an Armenian Diaspora and for years, maybe centuries forced them to move especially to the Western parts of the Byzantine empire. If deportation is considered Genocide which it is by many on this forum we could probably shout out loud that ONE OF THE FIRST GENOCIDES COMMITTED AGAINST ARMENIANS WAS BY THE GREEKS... and I am sure this deportation came together with all the horrors attributed to the Turks in the 20th century case. IMO this GREEK GENOCIDE OF ARMENIANS continued until the arrival of the Seljuks for several hundred years. To the Greeks Armenains were heathen since they had their own Church and thus the heathen within the borders of the empire had to be displaced far away from the on and off independant Armenian states which were formed over the centuries. Armenians within Greek borders close to independant Armenia were probably seen as a serious threat to Byzantine border integrity hence the inevitability of their deportation. Greek-Armenian hatred could also explain the initial Turco-Armenian alliance against the Greeks who were probably by then hated by all the indigenous non-Greek population in the late Byzantine era.

If you are referring to how land would be have been divied out post WWI had Sevres been adhered to, yes it would have been interesting but I believe had areas such as Trabzon (Trebizond) been granted to the Pontus Greeks, Armenians would have gladly lived under their jurisdiction. In fact, Armenians then would have gladly lived under any Christian and non-Turkish jurisdiction because ultimately that would have meant survival.

As far as Armenian and Greek relations in the Byzantine era, they were mutually intertwined by the fact that much of the Byzantine military hierarchy and a few of the emperors were Armenian. The Byzantine structutre itself became very corrupt and like all empires, was bound for failure. On a day to day basis between common people Greeks, Armenians, and Assyrians generally got along well together despite petty comercial rivaliries and other small disputes.

I'm not sure I would call what the Byzantines did towards Armenians genocide. The Greek population also suffered under their leaders as well (which is one of the reasons many Greeks gave up their identity and essentially became Seljuks). I guess when I compare what the Byzantine leaders did as compared to the Seljuks, Tamerlane, the Ottomans, Abdul Hamid, CUP, etc, the supposed "Greek Genocide of Armenians" you are alluding to seems minor.

Armenians have been through so much through the centuries but the Genocide still stands out because our presence (not only because it happened so recently) was essentially erased in Anatolia. None of the others ever went that far (perhaps not for the lack of trying). Anyway, you brought up an interesting discussion.

The bottom line is this; our shared history and our present dealings with the Greeks is mostly positive and we hope that continues. Our past and present dealings with Turks are vastly negative...very negative. Being that both Greeks and Armenians share a common enemy, it does bring us closer..so be it.

[Steph]

http://www.armeniaemb.org/DiscoverAr...ofDiaspora.htm
Gavur. Do you consider forced relocatıon as Genocide?

Hittite, I, for one, would not see forced relocation,in itself, as Genocide, but a constituent part of it.
An apple forms part of an apple pie, but in itself is just an apple.

[Gavur]

http://www.armeniaemb.org/DiscoverAr...ofDiaspora.htm

The Armenian Diaspora ( Spyurk)

Historical Background
Due to its strategic geopolitical position, Armenia has throughout its history served as a stage of confrontation between the leading powers of the Western Asia . The long-winding military conflict between the Roman and its successor Byzantine Empire and Persia culminated, in 387 AD, with the loss of the Armenian statehood as Armenia was for the first time in its history divided between those two states. The date can be conditionally set as the beginning of the Armenian Diaspora as hereafter the mass emigration from the homeland would come to be one of defining factors of the history of the Armenian people.

In centuries since, just like any other people anywhere in the world, the Armenian emigration from their homeland would be caused by three main factors: economic, religious, and political. In addition to these, the Armenian people, left without an independent government of their own, were also driven out by the foreign potentates' policy of ethnic persecution and oppression. Consequently, the mass migration of the Armenians had occurred in variety of directions and forms, whether voluntary or forced, by way of deportation and repatriation, across many states or even continents.

Already in 3rd and 4th centuries AD, during the reigns of Persian Sassanian Kings Ardashir and Shapur II, the first recorded mass deportation of the Armenians took place. The Armenians were forcibly relocated in the Khuzistan and other regions of Persia . The Byzantine policy of displacing the indigenous Armenian population was of more consistent nature: for several centuries the Armenians were forced to relocate to the western regions of the Empire, including the Balkan regions of Thrace and Macedonia . The emigration of the Armenian nobility and military elite resulted in their diffusion into the highest ranks of the Byzantine government system, culminating in the establishment of the Macedonian or Armenian imperial dynasty (867-1057).

Gavur. Do you consider forced relocatıon as Genocide? Think about it, with the decline of the Muslim empire the Greeks did not need an Armenian buffer any more. How polite do you think the "real" Orthodox Greeks behaved towards the heathen Armenian Orthodox population then.

Gavur, in the same way a Turk may be typical of denial you are typical of the "Armenian Genocide Recognition whatever it takes" position. I guess you really dont care if a few thousand or million Armenians were killed by Greeks, you really dont give a xxxx because it doesn't quite help support your current day cause, does it? You make me as sick as that Greek politician.

Funnily enough its quite evident in the above article that Persians/Iranians the very good friends of Armenia and Armenians today were the first to ever relocate Armenians and thus commit genocide; and the Greeks came next.

First of all at the time of the Persian forced relocation was to create a buffer state and later on Byzans decide to create a buffer state against the Turks in the Balkans by moving Armenians there (and some Turks)it was an accepted practice in those times to hire mercenaries who led some parts of the population with them .I'm not at all convinced it was a forced relocation in the case of Byzans because they never were directly controlled by the empire they always would cut a deal,Byzans had more then one fish to fry they could never conquer the Armenians in the mountains,so often Armenia briliantly would be part of a 3 or 4 party peace agreements.Besides how could a genocided people become a dynasty of Ceaser's?
If my belief of the Genocide is partially clouding my ability of judging who's a denier and who's not,your belief of the Turk's inocents is clouding your sense of History tenfold,encouraged by your dispicable goverment.

[Joseph]

Somewhat related

Turks are pissed yet again. Maybe they'll take out more of their frustations on the Kurds.

http://www.todayszaman.com/tz-web/detaylar.do?load=detay&link=116259

Turkish envoy delivers protest to Greece over map row
The Turkish ambassador in Athens met Greek officials yesterday to express Turkish unease over a military seminar in which a participant displayed a map showing Turkey's southeast as part of a hypothetical Kurdish state.


Greek Ambassador George Yennimatas
Ambassador Tahsin Burcuo?lu met Charalambous Rokanas, secretary-general of the Greek Foreign Ministry, to convey Turkey's message, the Anatolia news agency reported.
The meeting in Athens came after Greek Ambassador George Yennimatas was summoned to the Foreign Ministry in Ankara over the weekend to hear Turkey's protest of the map incident. Private ANKA news agency said Yennimatas told Turkish officials that the Greek government did not share the views of the professor who had used the map. The Greek ambassador noted that the professor did however have the freedom to express his own views.

Yennimatas also said the Greek government favored territorial integrity of its neighbors and reiterated that Turkey was a Greek ally. The seminar in question took place July 3-7 in Athens and was hosted by the Greek General Staff. A participant, identified as Professor Iannis Mazis, displayed a map of Turkey and the Middle East showing Turkey's southeast as part of a "Free Kurdistan." It also showed Iraq divided into three and Israel in its pre-1967 borders. The same map caused tension in the past when it was shown during a NATO seminar.

Turkey's military attaché in Athens, Col. Atilla ?irin, who was also attending the seminar, walked out of the meeting, saying neither the map nor the presentation by Professor Mazis were based on fact. The Greek defense minister also attended the opening of the seminar.

Anatolia reported that Mazis clarified details of his presentation yesterday, saying he had no intention of offending Turkey and that he had emphasized that Greece shared neighboring Turkey's concerns about the threat posed by the outlawed Kurdistan Workers' Party (PKK), which carries out attacks against military targets in southeastern Turkey. Mazis told Anatolia that he displayed the map to support his thesis about the threat and lamented that he had been "misunderstood" by the Turkish military attaché.

[Panos26]

Thanks for the sincere answer Joseph. Disdain would not be the right word since your alliance is totally natural even though it feeds the widely believed conspiracy that the whole world is against Turkey. Armo-Greek relations would probably be strong even without Turkey due to a considerably heavy peripheral islamic existance but it would have been nice to see how the partitioning of certain parts of Turkey, like Trabzon, would turn out to be like. Nevertheless Greek-Turkish relations are at their best since decades.

Steph: Greco-Armenian relations are old but I think you would also accept that they have not always been to the likes of St. Valentine. Dont forget it was the Greeks who first created an Armenian Diaspora and for years, maybe centuries forced them to move especially to the Western parts of the Byzantine empire. If deportation is considered Genocide which it is by many on this forum we could probably shout out loud that ONE OF THE FIRST GENOCIDES COMMITTED AGAINST ARMENIANS WAS BY THE GREEKS... and I am sure this deportation came together with all the horrors attributed to the Turks in the 20th century case. IMO this GREEK GENOCIDE OF ARMENIANS continued until the arrival of the Seljuks for several hundred years. To the Greeks Armenains were heathen since they had their own Church and thus the heathen within the borders of the empire had to be displaced far away from the on and off independant Armenian states which were formed over the centuries. Armenians within Greek borders close to independant Armenia were probably seen as a serious threat to Byzantine border integrity hence the inevitability of their deportation. Greek-Armenian hatred could also explain the initial Turco-Armenian alliance against the Greeks who were probably by then hated by all the indigenous non-Greek population in the late Byzantine era.

Probably one of the most bullxxxx-concetrated texts i have ever read in my life.
Your pathetic attempt to deny the closeness of the Greco-Armenian ties is laughable.
First of all the modern Greek state is in no way the continuer of the Byzantine Empire and cannot be held responsible for the action of the truly multi-ethnic Byzantine Empire.

While the Greek Turkish relations have improved after the earthquakes in Greece and Turkey,after the rejection of the Annan plan from the Greek Cypriot side the current relations between Greece and Turkey are yet again tensed over Cyprus.

Now the pathetic attempt to nulify the Greek Armenian relations are purely out of a Turkish inferiority complex i pressume.Namely an inferiority complex towards your true powerfull political enemy which is off course Greece and not Armenia.

Greece being in the EU has caused severe complex to every Turk i meet,ever since you have been actively trying to join the EU.Note my words....the Greek Cypriot side(not Greece) is NEVER gonna allow Turkey in the EU unless the Cyprus issue closes in Greece's favour.That is why now the chapters of the negotiations about Turkey's entry are frozen.Bsc only of the Cyprus issue.


The bullxxxx and arbitrary claim that the Armenian and Greek people are not close and share animosity is only laughable at best.I dare you to visit Greece and see what every Greek citizen has to say about the Armenian Genocide and about the closeness of the Armenian and Greek people.That only prooves how uninformed you trully are about the Greek public opinion.
Greece is one of the more well -informed,if not the most well -informed country in the world about the Armenian Genocide.The public opinion clearly sides with the Armenian people due to the simple fact that every third Greek family today residing in Greece has lived and witnessed first hand the attrocities of the Turks against the Armenians(my family amogst them).

As far as i remember,there hasnt passed a single year in my lifespan that the commameration of the Armenian Genocide wasnt a top story in the Greek news in Greece on the 24th of April and events were not held to honour the victims in Greece.

Probably the Turkish propaganda is doing a perfect job in Turkey,but i dare you to pass the borders and visit Greece.You will be suprised that so close to Turkey,in Greece, exists a parallel universe in every aspect both culturally and economically compared to Turkey.While you live somewhere in the middle ages compared to Greece(of what i understand from Turkish people) we here in Greece live light years ahead of Turkey, in a democratic,progressive and economically developed EU country,which happens to be the most economically developed country in the Balkans.It is about time Turkey wakes up from the Ottoman Empire mentality and joins the rest of the world.

[Joseph]

THOSE TURKS, THEY ARE RELENTLESS!
George Gregoriou Professor, Critical Theory and Geopolitics

Greek News, New York

http://www.greeknewsonline.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=7159

July 16 2007

It is 33 years since Turkey invaded Cyprus and carried out their
ethnic cleansing in the north. Nothing seems to change in Ankara.

Ankara gets away with, literally, murder. Does it have anything to do
with the Muslim religion? It does. Ayaan Hirsi Ali offers a partial
explanation. In her words: "Islam stopped thinking in the year 900 and
has stood still for more than a thousand years." For over 100 years,
the authorities in Constantinople and Ankara denied they committed
genocide against the Armenians, much less on all Christian subjects. I
do not mean 1915 or 1922, the massacre of 1,500,000 Armenians and the
burning of Smyrna and the genocide of the Greeks, respectively. The
deportations and massacres against the Christian subjects was part
of the policy of the Ottoman rulers to Turkify Anatolia. This policy
was accelerated, with vengeance, from the last quarter of the 19th
Century to the end of World War I, when the Empire was rotting from
inside and assaulted from the outside by the European imperialist
powers. The end of the Ottoman Empire was in sight. It collapsed with
the outbreak of the Great War.

The evidence on the deportations and massacres is overwhelming. It
was more than one can handle. Turkish intellectuals admit there was a
genocide. They relied on the Ottoman documents, already declassified by
Ankara. Newspaper reporting on the massacres, in the United States and
Europe, abound. So are eyewitness reports by government officials,
American, European, including Germans who coached the Turks on
genocide. This evidence came out at the trials in Constantinople when
the Ottoman capital was occupied by the Allied forces during World War
I. The skulls and skeletons of the victims still surface at the mass
graves. Yet, despite this evidence, the Turkish authorities still say
"Yok," It Did Not Happen!

It is the same on Cyprus. What occupation? What ethnic cleansing? All
traces of Greek history in the occupied north have been eradicated,
from cemeteries to streets to villages and towns. 200 thousand Greek
Cypriots were forced to leave their homes to "make room" for 140,000
settlers from Anatolia. They occupy Greek Cypriot homes, with Ecevit
photographs on bureaus, even take title of stolen property. This is not
true, it is Greek Cypriot propaganda! The bulldozing of Greek Cypriot
homes is daily, mostly for developers from the USA and EU countries,
with Washington encouragement. No, that cannot be true!

Ankara and Washington are masters of denial. And after 33 years of
occupation, even opening the barbed wire gates between the north
and the south for reconciliation, the only solution at the table
(promoted by Ankara, London, and Washington through the UN) is a
legalized partition or a two-state solution.

Why are the Turkish leaders in Ankara so arrogant, even lying in
the face of all the evidence on the genocide and the invasion and
occupation of Cyprus? Why do they get away with these lies? They are
not about to change, denunciations and protestations aside, unless
necessity knocks at their door, at least not by themselves. The
reason? The Turkish rulers, with mass support, are not only arrogant,
they have power to support this arrogance. The are also located at
a strategic place. The major powers in Europe and the US are with
Turkey, as enablers of these lies, thereby perpetuating Ankara¹s
arrogance and denials.

The deportations and massacres in the Ottoman era were well-known.

Americans and Europeans organized, protested, even pressured their
governments to set up commissions to look into these massacres
and take action. That is as far as it went. With the resurgence
of the nationalist movement, led by Mustafa Kemal, the political
tide favored Turkey. He was a competent strategist. His flirting
with the Russian Bolsheviks, for loans and arms, send shivers down
the spines of the capitalists. Though allied warships escorted the
Greek military expedition to Smyrna, they abandoned them. One by one,
the European leaders (Italy, France, Britain) and the United States,
came to terms with Mustafa Kemal and signed peace treaties. Something
else happened. The British did smell oil in Baku (Mesopotamia)
and the Middle East. The Americans would not be left out, since
oil was essential to industrial capitalism. They rushed to sign oil
concessions from the Turks, for billions of dollars in profits. And
voila, a new pro-Turkish policy was borne: the sworn wartime enemy of
the allies was the new ally! What human rights? What humanity? What
genocide? All these platitudes in wartime went out of the window.

This situation continued into the Cold War, the war on terrorism,
and the emerging "Cold War II" against Russia. Turkey is important
in these wars. Cyprus is not.

We cannot hold our breath forever. We have been doing this for 33
years. Any results? Nothing will be done unless this geopolitical
strategy is in danger. We have to stop this isolation. Washington¹s
pro-Turkish policy can be fractured only if the Cyprus problem
becomes part of the larger movement to force Ankara to recognize the
genocide against Greeks, Armenians, Assyrians (and Kurds) and get out
of Cyprus. Otherwise, Turkey will not be in the European Union. This
wind is already blowing in that direction throughout Europe. Sooner
or later Turkey will have to choose between the European Union or
an Islamic path. The present situation cannot last forever. Either
way, Turkey moving towards democracy or the Islamic path will be in
trouble. So would the United States-Turkey axis. For the Greeks,
doing the same thing over and over for 33 years, without results,
is the mark of insanity. Turkey has been denying the genocide for
100 years and occupying northern Cyprus for 33 years, to her advantage.

This cannot be done forever! When the stakes are raised to a higher
level, when Turkey is threatened to fall off its perch, and the
"marriage of convenience" between the United States and Turkey is
on the verge of collapse, we may see some movement on the genocide
denial and the occupation of Cyprus. Imagine such a threat to US
interests in the Muslim world. Iraq may be the beginning of a much
greater disaster waiting to happen. Washington cannot hold the hand
of Ankara at the doorsteps of the EU in Brussels much longer.

[Panos26]

Mr Georgiou is right on most of the occasion except Cyprus.

While the Turks did actually commit crimes after the 1974 invasion,the Greek side is also responsible for the killing of almost 30.000 Turkish Cypriots between 1955 and 1974.The bloodiest being between 1963-1974.So in no way i am not gonna deny what history has written on Cyprus, because it is our fault also but the Turks have the audacity for 33 years to try and make legal the occupation by trying to lift the embargoes against the pseudo-state of Northern Cyprus.
Besides only Turkey recognizes the pseudo-state Denktas created.

[hitite]

Probably one of the most bullxxxx-concetrated texts i have ever read in my life.
Your pathetic attempt to deny the closeness of the Greco-Armenian ties is laughable.
First of all the modern Greek state is in no way the continuer of the Byzantine Empire and cannot be held responsible for the action of the truly multi-ethnic Byzantine Empire.

While the Greek Turkish relations have improved after the earthquakes in Greece and Turkey,after the rejection of the Annan plan from the Greek Cypriot side the current relations between Greece and Turkey are yet again tensed over Cyprus.

Now the pathetic attempt to nulify the Greek Armenian relations are purely out of a Turkish inferiority complex i pressume.Namely an inferiority complex towards your true powerfull political enemy which is off course Greece and not Armenia.

Greece being in the EU has caused severe complex to every Turk i meet,ever since you have been actively trying to join the EU.Note my words....the Greek Cypriot side(not Greece) is NEVER gonna allow Turkey in the EU unless the Cyprus issue closes in Greece's favour.That is why now the chapters of the negotiations about Turkey's entry are frozen.Bsc only of the Cyprus issue.


The bullxxxx and arbitrary claim that the Armenian and Greek people are not close and share animosity is only laughable at best.I dare you to visit Greece and see what every Greek citizen has to say about the Armenian Genocide and about the closeness of the Armenian and Greek people.That only prooves how uninformed you trully are about the Greek public opinion.
Greece is one of the more well -informed,if not the most well -informed country in the world about the Armenian Genocide.The public opinion clearly sides with the Armenian people due to the simple fact that every third Greek family today residing in Greece has lived and witnessed first hand the attrocities of the Turks against the Armenians(my family amogst them).

As far as i remember,there hasnt passed a single year in my lifespan that the commameration of the Armenian Genocide wasnt a top story in the Greek news in Greece on the 24th of April and events were not held to honour the victims in Greece.

Probably the Turkish propaganda is doing a perfect job in Turkey,but i dare you to pass the borders and visit Greece.You will be suprised that so close to Turkey,in Greece, exists a parallel universe in every aspect both culturally and economically compared to Turkey.While you live somewhere in the middle ages compared to Greece(of what i understand from Turkish people) we here in Greece live light years ahead of Turkey, in a democratic,progressive and economically developed EU country,which happens to be the most economically developed country in the Balkans.It is about time Turkey wakes up from the Ottoman Empire mentality and joins the rest of the world.

1- You are yet another one of those who reads with ass and not with eye.
2- I am not denying Greek-Armenian ties, on the contrary I am saying that it is natural and go on to say that ties on an individual level are genuine but on the political level it stinks.
3- Turks have inferiority complex and are creatures not worthy of human affection and should be damned to hell... yeah well we know all that. Greeks and Armenians are the most noble of all creatures ... we will build shrines for you one day. I dont know which Turks you met but a regular Turk on the street does not see Greece as a threat or possesing political power. The general feeling is that it would take only 10 hours to beat the xxxx out of you since Greeks are not fighters but rather dolma stuffers. I do not share this feeling though, but as far as inferiorty complex goes with the Greeks it rather seems to be the exact opposite. Many Turks dont want to join the EU any more by the way.
4- I really do value Greek-Armenian comradeship among its people. You have all shared history, we have all shared common history and continue to do so.
5- I have been to Greece many times and I must admit that I love it. Even though you say the two countries are totally different I will challenge you to say that we are totally the same. It is obvious you have never been to Turkey. Our food, music, humour are the same. It even sounds like half the cuss words in Greek are Turkish. So "light years ahead"???... naaahh...And as far as Greece being the statuette example of democracy how about the opression of Turks in Greece and the widespread and ultimately stupid Greek denial of Turks in Greece: You call the Turkish minority "Muslim Greeks".. you cannot get any funnier. Turks may be doing the same thing to its minoriteis but at least we dont portray ourselves as the "culprit" of democracy among every other noble human element.

Personally I like Greek people very much because I can relate to them easily since we share a lot and are very similar. The only thing I find interestingly different sometimes is the continuing "Constantinople Trauma" that is still not over since all these centuries. Greeks still have a strong yearning for Istanbul to be Greek again and this is always verbalised by them. This never makes me angry, its just very interesting. And there is also this "Macedonia is Greek" bullxxxx. So I guess the source of the inferiority complex you attribute to Turks is coming from yourself. Dont reflect your xxxx on others mate.