One voice, revenge, hate...

[TurQ]

According to Census by Ottoman state.
Do you personally believe in 7 million figure?

According to whom?

[Reincarnated Am]

According to Census by Ottoman state.
Do you personally believe in 7 million figure?

Who should I believe, my father-in-law that says he has documents and maps that say so, or the Ottoman Turks, that it’s a known fact that they are the biggest liars from the get go, hummmm…???????????

[TurQ]

Why should Ottomans decrease their own population figures?
Who told you that Ottomans are the biggest liars?
Ask your father-in-law to submit those documents to History department in Yerevan state universty let them analyze and comment on those documents.

Who should I believe, my father-in-law that says he has documents and maps that say so, or the Ottoman Turks, that it’s a known fact that they are the biggest liars from the get go, hummmm…???????????

[Kharpert]

Even if 7 million doesn't sound reasonable, 2.5 million out of 13-15 million people sounds perfectly feasable. To consider that Armenians were less than 1.5 million is just as, if not more, ridiculuous than 10 million.

An Ottoman census that suggests otherwise is totally untrustworthy as an official document.

[Hovik]

Why should Ottomans decrease their own population figures?
Who told you that Ottomans are the biggest liars?

TurQ, Where did you find Ottoman census information? As I know from Turkish historians they are very hard to access and very seldomly accessed since they were only done once every 30 years and the volumes are now spread out through nations which were once under Ottoman control (ie. Syria)! I didn't know they had been gone through to the extent you say.

Ask your father-in-law to submit those documents to History department in Yerevan state universty let them analyze and comment on those documents.

I agree with TurQ, it would be a good idea to do so.

[sue35205]

1-Khanate of Crimea was a vassal state of Ottoman Empire until 1774. In 1774, with the Treaty of Kucuk Kaynarca, Ottomans were forced to grant independence to Crimea. In 1783, Crimea was invaded and annexed by Russia. The nation who lived in Crimea were called Crimean Tatars.
2-Chechens, like Dagistanis and Ingush, lived in their independent kingdoms until they were invaded by………….
3-The only difference between Latvia, Estonia, Armenia, Kazakhstan, Azerbaijan, Georgia, on the one hand, and Chechnya & ……..

4-It doesn’t change the fact, however, that also Chechnya and Crimea was populated, until 200 years ago, by its native people, and not by Russians. Like the rest of Caucasian, Central Asian, and Baltic countries, they had lost their independence to Russian expansionism. In their case, however, the loss of independence was irreversible. Therefore, the U.S and European Union are supporting the autonomy, not the independence of Chechnya.
5-I am only posting this in order to counter the claim that Russia is and was not an expansionist country. Russia may have changed its ways in the last 15 years, but it should be remembered that they didn’t stop invading until 1980s (Afghanistan).

6-I believe I have a right to correct you……….

Fellow Vogelgrippe,
Paragraph-1: Your “vassal state of Ottoman Empire ” were devoted servants of . You may get away with Genocide against unarmed Armenian Civilians. But when you F$$k with USSR, by taking sides, you risk everything least of all lost of territory. And do not cry, Russians did not send them to concentration camps, but educated them and called them equal, “comrades”.

Your Ottoman Empire vanished absent of their Master , rendering “Treaty of Kucuk” good to wipe Stalin’s behind.


Paragraph-2,3,4,5: Chechnya was never a autonomous state, but territory, just like a state in the U.S.A., and certainly was void of hostile external islamist influence, outsiders such as:. Analogy of this is, we fought Civil wars in the US, as well, to unite all the States, including territories occupied by many native Indians. Furthermore, separatist Chechnyan ideology is lately acquired and Islamist driven.

Since you brought up Afghanistan, USSR was invited in by Afgan Regime which regime did not hold and subsequently USSR pulled out.

Paragraph 6- You have a right to speak up, but perhaps before you try to correct me, you should try to apologize and correct cowardly masker of hundreds of children in B E S L O N-Russia by your low life coward ideological brothers and sisters or perhaps apologize and correct for Genocide of tens of thousands of Armenians!

[Turanist]

Stalin deported the whole population of Crimeans. Chechens are not Russians they are different also you are saying that all Muslims should apologize and correct cowardly masker of hundreds of children in B E S L O N. but this is wrong because then I can ask you to apologize for Spanish Genocide of Jews and muslims.

[elendil]

Chechnya was never a autonomous state, but territory, just like a state in the U.S.A., and certainly was void of hostile external islamist influence, outsiders such as:. Analogy of this is, we fought Civil wars in the US, as well, to unite all the States, including territories occupied by many native Indians. Furthermore, separatist Chechnyan ideology is lately acquired and Islamist driven.You have a right to speak up, but perhaps before you try to correct me, you should try to apologize and correct cowardly masker of hundreds of children in B E S L O N-Russia by your low life coward ideological brothers and sisters or perhaps apologize and correct for Genocide of tens of thousands of Armenians!

France in Morocco, Belgium in Kongo, America in Vietnam-Iraq-Native people of America, Russia in Turkic Republics, whole Europe in crusades, England in India and dominions of England..... I can count more. Generally I see these events as the natural evolution of a dynasty coming to power. But if you are to blame all Muslims for the terrorism of the fundemantalists, then you should check your own history...

Your “vassal state of Ottoman Empire ” were devoted servants of . You may get away with Genocide against unarmed Armenian Civilians. But when you F$$k with USSR, by taking sides, you risk everything least of all lost of territory. And do not cry, Russians did not send them to concentration camps, but educated them and called them equal, “comrades”.

Your Ottoman Empire vanished absent of their Master , rendering “Treaty of Kucuk” good to wipe Stalin’s behind.

We were allies with Germany, but without a doubt it was not because we were in love with Germans but we had no other choice in the subject. Besides while nearly all Europe was planning how to divide the empire between themselves it is natural we were with Germany. Ideology had nothing to do with it.

[Vogelgrippe]

Fellow Vogelgrippe,
Paragraph-1: Your “vassal state of Ottoman Empire ” were devoted servants of . You may get away with Genocide against unarmed Armenian Civilians. But when you F$$k with USSR, by taking sides, you risk everything least of all lost of territory. And do not cry, Russians did not send them to concentration camps, but educated them and called them equal, “comrades”.

Your Ottoman Empire vanished absent of their Master , rendering “Treaty of Kucuk” good to wipe Stalin’s behind.


Paragraph-2,3,4,5: Chechnya was never a autonomous state, but territory, just like a state in the U.S.A., and certainly was void of hostile external islamist influence, outsiders such as:. Analogy of this is, we fought Civil wars in the US, as well, to unite all the States, including territories occupied by many native Indians. Furthermore, separatist Chechnyan ideology is lately acquired and Islamist driven.

Since you brought up Afghanistan, USSR was invited in by Afgan Regime which regime did not hold and subsequently USSR pulled out.

Paragraph 6- You have a right to speak up, but perhaps before you try to correct me, you should try to apologize and correct cowardly masker of hundreds of children in B E S L O N-Russia by your low life coward ideological brothers and sisters or perhaps apologize and correct for Genocide of tens of thousands of Armenians!

Obviously you have a problem, but not with me.

You are absolutely right that Crimean Tatars were deported, and some Chechens resorted to terrorism. Do you see though, in any of my postings, any sentence defending Tatar’s collaboration with Germans or Chechens’ bloody acts like in Beslan? Check again:

The only difference between Latvia, Estonia, Armenia, Kazakhstan, Azerbaijan, Georgia, on the one hand, and Chechnya & Crimea is that the latter were relatively successfully integrated & assimilated into Russia. Now Russia may have a legitimate point that these territories are an integral part of Russian homeland, and want to keep it that way.

It doesn’t change the fact, however, that also Chechnya and Crimea was populated, until 200 years ago, by its native people, and not by Russians. Like the rest of Caucasian, Central Asian, and Baltic countries, they had lost their independence to Russian expansionism. In their case, however, the loss of independence was irreversible. Therefore, the U.S and European Union are supporting the autonomy, not the independence of Chechnya.

As you can see, I wrote this history summary in order to show that Russia has been an expansionist country. I had, and still don’t have, any wish to attack or blame Russia. On the contrary, I acknowledged Russia's right to keep Chechnya as part of its territory.

I don’t owe any apology, more than you do, for any terrorist act committed anywhere in the world. If I owe any apology for failing to stop these terrorists as a peaceful civilian, you also do owe the same apology as anyone else in this forum.

If you want to use Russia as a pretext to attack and insult Turks, go ahead and play your game. If you however misunderstood my postings and responded accordingly, I hereby made another attempt to correct this misunderstanding.

[sue35205]

Islam

Stalin deported the whole population of Crimeans. Chechens are not Russians they are different also you are saying that all Muslims should apologize and correct cowardly masker of hundreds of children in B E S L O N. but this is wrong because then I can ask you to apologize for Spanish Genocide of Jews and muslims.

“Chok Yakchi” fellow Turanist,

I am not advocating Stalin’s ways, but the fact the USSR was invaded by Germany 2x, Napoleon, and others throughout history and what Russians did was for justified self protection and preservation. And, if in the process few devoted servants of their enemies were cleansed, so be it.

As for your fellow Moslems, I do not see any rise to prevent, such cowardly massacres, but enticement and moral and financial support for further terrorism and genocide. Have you noticed the genocide of hundreds of thousands under the flag of ISLAM in S U D A N?

Evidently, Islam is a religion that can only generate underclass and intellectual disadvantaged. Just look around and count the intellectual accomplishments of Moslem Stales. Have you contemplated where would Islam be without OIL?