Kurdistan!

[hitite]

I think if we(kurds) are given more freedoms in Turkey,we will live with Turks in peace.But we aren't given any of them,in addition we are slaughtered by them.But if Turks do same things again and again,situations will get worse and worse.

Rudo, I really do sympathize with you since you seem to be like the many Kurdish friends I have; one of them who is my best friend and closer than a brother. I can never put you in the same category as "kerkuk_kurdista" the PKK wannabie. With all due respect I would like to ask you more or less the same questions I ask my friends whenever we discuss minority politics in Turkey.

1- What are the freedoms you want?
2- Do you really think incorporating S.E.Turkey into a bigger Kurdistan led by, say, Talabani, would make the Kurds, Turks, Arabs living in S.E.T happy. If people were given the choice to select who to join who would they choose?
3- And who is being slaughtered in Turkey at the moment?

[maral_m79]

Turkishforces is not aware what he's talking about. I dont even feel a necessity to say how absurd is his solution is. But only a traitor can adopt such a decision.
Kurds are in general loyal to Turkish state, and pretty much comfortable with their Turkish citizenship. His solution will turn the PKK problem into an ethnic problem.
MHP nationalist action party will be among the first to oppose and fight against such a policy.

Maral dont be quick to jump some conclusions and try to make an issue out of this, in Turkey you would find no more than a few to consider this solution as a viable one.

I am aware that he DO NOT represent the Turkish government, and his opinion can be and individual opinion.

My point was, that it's so easy to a thought like to take it's way toward being a fact ... it just need an idiot (like our firend here ) sitting in a decision making chair !!!
It's not impossible though ... It happened once before, remember ?
It happened to those Armenian citizen's who were in mass majority LOYAL to their government !! Back then, it took only 3 idiots to do it .. now, with all the technology and stuff, it needs only one maybe !

We ALL need to learn the Lessons of History .... Coz history repreats itself!!

[maral_m79]

Would Kurds agitate for lands from Turkey if they had their own country formed from Iraqi lands? If not, then Turkey has nothing to fear against the formation of a nation called Kurdistan on lands currently called Iraq.

Even if they won't ... Turkey will still be concerned, because a state of Kurdstan in Iraq, will only give more hope for Turkish Kurds to have their independence, if not military support from Iraqi Kurds !!

And that won't be something that Turkey will like to see !

[TurQ]

Maral
No offense but you have no idea about Kurds in general and Kurds of Turkey in particular.
Military support from Iraqi Kurds? Independence aspirations?
Even most of Iraqi Kurds do not believe in full independence. They know it is unrealistic, and they know that the great powers will divide them easily to manupulate them in order not to allow them the full control over oil resources. Iraqi Kurds are 100% aware that they can not handle contraversy with Turkey because Turkey is their only way out to world. Now you are telling us that they will support Turkish Kurds for independence? DO you know that Northern Iraqi Kurds can not live without Turkey's help? DO you know that northern Iraqi Kurds used to come to ANkara to solve their own internal problems? Do you know that joint northern Iraqi Kurds and Turkish forces attacked PKK numerous times? Do you know that without electricity or goods from Turkey they can not live more than a week?
And even that lets assume they did it, would Turkish Kurds ever respond?
These are just fantasies that sound nice to Armenian ears who fantasize about Eastern Anatolia.

Even if they won't ... Turkey will still be concerned, because a state of Kurdstan in Iraq, will only give more hope for Turkish Kurds to have their independence, if not military support from Iraqi Kurds !!

And that won't be something that Turkey will like to see !

[maral_m79]

Maral
No offense but you have no idea about Kurds in general and Kurds of Turkey in particular.
Military support from Iraqi Kurds? Independence aspirations?
Even most of Iraqi Kurds do not believe in full independence. They know it is unrealistic, and they know that the great powers will divide them easily to manupulate them in order not to allow them the full control over oil resources. Iraqi Kurds are 100% aware that they can not handle contraversy with Turkey because Turkey is their only way out to world. Now you are telling us that they will support Turkish Kurds for independence? DO you know that Northern Iraqi Kurds can not live without Turkey's help? DO you know that northern Iraqi Kurds used to come to ANkara to solve their own internal problems? Do you know that joint northern Iraqi Kurds and Turkish forces attacked PKK numerous times? Do you know that without electricity or goods from Turkey they can not live more than a week?
And even that lets assume they did it, would Turkish Kurds ever respond?
These are just fantasies that sound nice to Armenian ears who fantasize about Eastern Anatolia.

Maybe that can be true ...
I don't have extensive knowledge about the Kurds.
So I won't argue more about that.
But I wonder what Kurds think ? We didn't hear from them yet on that issue.

[TurQ]

In 1993 before his death, Turgut Ozal(He himself is half Kurdish) the ex-president of Turkey, called the members of HEP (Now Hadep) the Kurdish oriented party, to the president's residence. He said to them, "Do you want federation within Turkey? OK lets talk about it then".
They were shocked couldnt speak and without saying nothing they left. He knew very well that even majority of PKK is just being reactionary like any other middle eastern anarchist groups and have no forseeable strategy for future. He knew that by just fixing some basic problems PKK can not find any audience in Turkey. Even most of the Kurds sympatizing PKK does not even want education in Kurdish.
And after all people in south east are doing business with Northern Iraq as Turkish citizens and they profit it, why should they want to unite with Northern Iraqis and lose this opportunity and plunge into uncertainity?

And After all Turkey is now adopting a long range politics that will be friendly with Northern Iraqi Kurds to enlarge its sphere of influence. Like Albanians of Balkans, Muslims and Georgians of Caucusia, Kurds will be Turkey's hand in middleeast.

Maybe that can be true ...
I don't have extensive knowledge about the Kurds.
So I won't argue more about that.
But I wonder what Kurds think ? We didn't hear from them yet on that issue.

[imported_RUDO]

Rudo, I really do sympathize with you since you seem to be like the many Kurdish friends I have; one of them who is my best friend and closer than a brother. I can never put you in the same category as "kerkuk_kurdista" the PKK wannabie. With all due respect I would like to ask you more or less the same questions I ask my friends whenever we discuss minority politics in Turkey.

1- What are the freedoms you want?
2- Do you really think incorporating S.E.Turkey into a bigger Kurdistan led by, say, Talabani, would make the Kurds, Turks, Arabs living in S.E.T happy. If people were given the choice to select who to join who would they choose?
3- And who is being slaughtered in Turkey at the moment?

Thank you for your kind words.Here answers:
1)I want language freedom most.I am Kurd,but I don't know my mother language because of Turkey's asimilation on Kurds.
2)I don't think that Kurds in Turkey will get on well with Kurds in North Iraq.Because Kurds in Turkey are left-winged,but Kurds in Iraq are more feudal than us.
3)Kurds in East are being slaugtered by JİTEM you know.And this deepens war between nations.

I wish a good future for Kurds and Turks in Turkey.But I am pessimistic.Because racism is gaining more power in Turkey and Kurds and Turks are fighting more.(Maybe not in battlefields but in streets and in their minds)
I am waiting for your comments.

[TurQ]

RUDO

Speaking should be free and the law was disbaned that was active since sept-12 1980 coup. Kurdish literature should be taught within Turkish education system to everyone, I dont think these will ever undermine Turkey.

2)For this, this is not true in general. Yes we have Kurdish leftist activists, but this does not mean that Kurds in general are leftist. They are mostly religous people, and does not have a good taste for marxist groups. They are traditional people. Even within DEP or HADEP you would see people 5 times praying regular mosque attenders. So you probably know that we also have some contraversial Kurdish leftist activists like Faik Bulut you probably know.
A sworn atheist and communist, he was the mouth piece of leftist groups that support military intervention against conservative rightist people during Feb-28 period. You see this is not Kurdish issue in general this is supporting the status quo vs being against it, and you will see other Kurdish leftists who support military rule like Faik Bulut.

3) Jitem's activities are not only against Kurdish activists, JITEM is known to have certain groups withing doing drug business with PKK as well. It is more of a shadowy group and Turkey's democratic establishment is struggling against this.

Thank you for your kind words.Here answers:
1)I want language freedom most.I am Kurd,but I don't know my mother language because of Turkey's asimilation on Kurds.
2)I don't think that Kurds in Turkey will get on well with Kurds in North Iraq.Because Kurds in Turkey are left-winged,but Kurds in Iraq are more feudal than us.
3)Kurds in East are being slaugtered by JİTEM you know.And this deepens war between nations.

I wish a good future for Kurds and Turks in Turkey.But I am pessimistic.Because racism is gaining more power in Turkey and Kurds and Turks are fighting more.(Maybe not in battlefields but in streets and in their minds)
I am waiting for your comments.

[imported_RUDO]

RUDO

Speaking should be free and the law was disbaned that was active since sept-12 1980 coup. Kurdish literature should be taught within Turkish education system to everyone, I dont think these will ever undermine Turkey.

2)For this, this is not true in general. Yes we have Kurdish leftist activists, but this does not mean that Kurds in general are leftist. They are mostly religous people, and does not have a good taste for marxist groups. They are traditional people. Even within DEP or HADEP you would see people 5 times praying regular mosque attenders. So you probably know that we also have some contraversial Kurdish leftist activists like Faik Bulut you probably know.
A sworn atheist and communist, he was the mouth piece of leftist groups that support military intervention against conservative rightist people during Feb-28 period. You see this is not Kurdish issue in general this is supporting the status quo vs being against it, and you will see other Kurdish leftists who support military rule like Faik Bulut.

3) Jitem's activities are not only against Kurdish activists, JITEM is known to have certain groups withing doing drug business with PKK as well. It is more of a shadowy group and Turkey's democratic establishment is struggling against this.

By saying Kurds I mean Left-winged Kurds ,not religious Kurds in Turkey.I don't consider them as Kurds.Because they only think of their religion not their nation.And they don't want any freedoms ,they just want a relgious country.
We all know JİTEM,we don't have to discuss it.We all know its aim in Turkey.
Maybe JİTEM isn't attacking Kurds only,but its activites can't be approved.Right?

[TurQ]

Who would approve JITEM?

About the Kurds we definetly differ. For me the marxist Kurds lose their indentity. Their religon is the backbone of their identity. And after all common culture, common heritage, common history all is stregthened by our common religon, being muslims. Thats why PKK inclined Kurds see less attachment to Turks compared with avarage Kurd.
Avarage Kurd is mostly conservative, living their lives. They want just a decent life, they dont want to get insulted etc. Other than that they dont have much concerns. This is true majority of the Kurds, and by your definition they are not Kurds. What do you think about Faik Bulut and his kind? Are they Kurds, being apparutus of leftist military supporters?

By saying Kurds I mean Left-winged Kurds ,not religious Kurds in Turkey.I don't consider them as Kurds.Because they only think of their religion not their nation.And they don't want any freedoms ,they just want a relgious country.
We all know JİTEM,we don't have to discuss it.We all know its aim in Turkey.
Maybe JİTEM isn't attacking Kurds only,but its activites can't be approved.Right?