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Kurdistan!

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  • #31
    Originally posted by maral_m79
    So to conclude from all the all above mentioned ....

    If Kurds take autonomy from Iraq (Which is something will happen 100%) or found a new state of Kurdistan in North Iraq, Turkey will "Invade" Iraq ? Or at best "Northern Iraq" ??

    Is that the suggested senario ?
    What does Turks think ?
    thats one of the possible senario invading northern iraq.turkey dont have a problem with whole country.also this regions country are against of establisng a kurdish republic.so there can be a regional war aginst a probable kurdish republic...

    Comment

    • #32
      So to conclude from all the all above mentioned ....

      If Kurds take autonomy from Iraq (Which is something will happen 100%) or found a new state of Kurdistan in North Iraq, Turkey will "Invade" Iraq ? Or at best "Northern Iraq" ??

      Is that the suggested senario ?
      What does Turks think ?
      No. in my opinion it is not in the best interest of Turkey to undertake an invasion to norhteren Iraq in the condition of autonomy or freedom. Nearly 15 million Kurdish people live in Turkey's soil who have fathers, sisters, cousins in notheren Iraq or Iraqi Kurdistan whichever you prefer. Such an action would light to fuse of an ethnic civil war in Turkey which is an event that everybody would agree to be horrible, destructive for our people regardless of their ethnic roots. Kurdish nationalism will stand at a crossroad when American forces retreat from Iraq. They will either choose to continue with federalism or they will choose seperation. Regardless of their intention, the choice they will make will also conclude the way of their nationalist movement
      Democratic way or the armed way...

      If they choose federalism then there will be no problem for the current states that harbor major Kurdish population, there will be trade and there will be life.

      However if they choose freedom, every country that neighbours that new-found state will close their borders or even attack. Thus Kurds will arm and leave branches of life such as education, industry,art out. They will grow poor and nasty. All their energy will be transfered to attack, to cause riots in the country of their invaders which there will be without doubt.. So;

      There is not one positive thing that will happen if we invade northeren Iraq.
      To me that much is certain.

      Then what kind of path we should follow? How to stop fighting our own people in our country without harming our state. We will make deals... Economic,politic,military deals which will bind the current points of authority in northeren Iraq to the state of Turkey. Many may laugh to this, but steps in terms of oil deals, politic deals have already been made and being made.
      One day Kurdish people will have to choose a friend in the region. That
      "friend" must be Turkey.

      Comment

      • #33
        I agree, there might be a possibility of internal dispute in Turkey over invading northern Iraq ...

        But, the current events show that Kurds are aiming at an independent Kurdistan in Northern Iraq, and Israel is their best support. There only problem is how to get Kerkuk into this "Kurdistan" ... one can not deny that Kurds today are a power in Iraq, the Iraqi persidant is a Kurd, the FM is a Kurd, the vise PM is a Kurd ... The new Iraqi constitution states that any province or group of provinces can claim independence any time they want , according to that ... Kurds will claim independence any moment now, as the consititution approved. If they manage to take Kerkuk too, then they'll have an oil fountain too ...

        How will Turkey "React" to that sinario ?

        And by the way, I don't think that any of the neighbouring countires to Iraq will close boarders against "possible Kurdistan" , even if they all would do that , "possible Kurdistan" will still have the "rest of Iraq" in the south, which will not close it's boarders !

        The whole situation is not looking good, I guess.

        Comment

        • #34
          But, the current events show that Kurds are aiming at an independent Kurdistan in Northern Iraq, and Israel is their best support. There only problem is how to get Kerkuk into this "Kurdistan" ... one can not deny that Kurds today are a power in Iraq, the Iraqi persidant is a Kurd, the FM is a Kurd, the vise PM is a Kurd ... The new Iraqi constitution states that any province or group of provinces can claim independence any time they want , according to that ... Kurds will claim independence any moment now, as the consititution approved. If they manage to take Kerkuk too, then they'll have an oil fountain too ...
          Indeed the elements you point out are correct ,but noone objects regional goverments as long as they are unified under Iraq. Personally I have no objection to Kurds holding power in Iraq, they are the people of that country after all.
          As to oil, regardless of what conclusion people of Iraq may reach about the ownership of Kerkuk, oil can not fly,walk or swim. It will have to be transported which have two logical possible routes. Turkey or Iran....


          How will Turkey "React" to that sinario ?

          And by the way, I don't think that any of the neighbouring countires to Iraq will close boarders against "possible Kurdistan" , even if they all would do that , "possible Kurdistan" will still have the "rest of Iraq" in the south, which will not close it's boarders !

          The whole situation is not looking good, I guess.
          If Kurdistan declares independence then it will mean that it is a seperate country from Iraq in which then there will be Arab majority rule which would happily close borders of new Iraq or remaning Iraq. If Kurds stay federal then they are bound to Iraq in foreing affairs so there will be no problem..
          Situation for Iraq, indeed does not look good. I fear a civil war is a serious possibility in the absence of American forces in the country.
          How will Turkey react? Refer to my message above...

          Comment

          • #35
            I would say that a civil war is inevitable. The United States wouldn't dare put another dictator there, even if it was U.S. friendly, because the Bush Administration kept selling to the American people how "democratic" the war is. Once the U.S. cannot sustain their foothold any longer, the Kurds will be forced to create their own nation.

            That said, as of 2005 there's really no Iraq left to speak of. It's been completely disintegrated. It's all about the Shi'ites, Sunnis, and Kurds now.

            Comment

            • #36
              I think Iraq is just one of those nations like Russia was and still is. Iraq needs an authoritarian ruler.
              [left][b]“The creation of the Azerbaijan Democratic Republic in the Northern Azerbaijan on some of Azerbaijani lands in 1918-1921, and its restoration…in 1991,[/b] [color=red][b]does not mean that the Azerbaijan national liberation movement is over[/b]…[/color] [b]The new stage will end with the creation and or restoration of a [color=red]united Azerbaijani statehood[/color]. … Already [in Iran] there are active organizations, whose sole purpose is the state independence of the Azeri Turks.”[/b][/left]

              [left][b][size=1][font=Tahoma]Abulfazl Elchibey(Ex-President of Azerbaijan)[/font][/b][/size][/left]

              Comment

              • #37
                It's sure as hell not getting another authoritarian ruler now.

                Comment

                • #38
                  Kurdish Delegation Arrives at Ankara

                  12.28.2005 Wednesday - ISTANBUL 01:54
                  By Cihan News Agency, Erbil
                  Published: Tuesday, December 27, 2005
                  zaman.com


                  A delegation of the Iraqi Kurdish Democratic Party (KDP) led by Massoud Barzani is expected to arrive in the Turkish capital Ankara today (Tuesday).

                  The four person delegation, according to a high-rank KDP authority, aims at easing "tensed" relations due to statements Kurdish politicians issued about Kerkuk (Kirkuk), an oil rich city in northern Iraq.


                  Party council member Azad Bervari and foreign relations official and former Ankara representative Sefin Dizai are among the delegation members.


                  A KDP member told Cihan news agency, Barzani still remains distant towards the operation against the Kurdistan Workers' Party (PKK) outlined by Turkey and they advocate evacuating the organization from the region "by persuasion" instead of "by force".


                  The same official told that if the talks being held with Turkish Foreign Ministry diplomats move in a positive direction, Barzani is willing to pay an official visit to the Turkish capital as the "head of the autonomous Kurdish government in northern Iraq".
                  "All truth passes through three stages:
                  First, it is ridiculed;
                  Second, it is violently opposed; and
                  Third, it is accepted as self-evident."

                  Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

                  Comment

                  • #39
                    'Kurds readying to seize Kirkuk'

                    Friday, December 30, 2005











                    ANKARA - Turkish Daily News


                    Kurdish leaders have placed more than 10,000 of their militia members into Iraqi army divisions to seize the oil-rich city of Kirkuk and to secure the borders of an independent Kurdistan, said a Knight Ridder reporter after interviews with Kurdish leaders and troops in northern Iraq. “It doesn't matter if we have to fight the Arabs in our own battalion,” said a Kurdish soldier in the Iraqi army. “Kirkuk will be ours.”

                    Kurds claim a majority in ethnically mixed Kirkuk, where hundreds of Sunni Arabs and Turkmens demonstrated yesterday against the outcome of Iraq's Dec. 15 parliamentary elections and condemned Kurdish attempts to dominate the city, reported Agence France-Presse.
                    "All truth passes through three stages:
                    First, it is ridiculed;
                    Second, it is violently opposed; and
                    Third, it is accepted as self-evident."

                    Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

                    Comment

                    • #40
                      Kurdish militants say more than 1,000 Turkish soldiers, policemen killed in 2005

                      Roj TV, Copenhagen
                      30 Dec 05

                      [Presenter] The People's Defence Forces [HPG] Main Headquarters
                      Command has announced the war tally for the year 2005. Accordingly,
                      1,076 soldiers, policemen and village guards, and 138 guerrillas lost
                      their lives during the clashes with the Turkish Army, which conducted
                      more than 300 operations throughout the year.

                      [Reporter] The written statement issued by the HPG Main Headquarters
                      Command provides information on the war tally for the year
                      2005. Accordingly, 339 operations were conducted against the
                      guerrillas. Of these, 324 were conducted by the Turkish Army, 12 by
                      the Iranian Army and three jointly by the Turkish and Iranian armies.

                      Fifty-four officers, 1,004 soldiers, 10 policemen and eight
                      village guards died in some 400 clashes that took place during
                      these operations. A soldier and a policeman were also taken
                      prisoners. Additionally, one helicopter and 77 military vehicles
                      were destroyed. One hundred and thirty-eight HPG guerrillas also lost
                      their lives in these clashes.

                      The statement also provides information about the passive legitimate
                      defence period unilaterally observed by the HPG from mid-August to
                      October. Twenty-seven guerrillas lost their lives in clashes that
                      took place with the Turkish armed forces which conducted 68 operations
                      during that period.

                      The statement adds that in parallel with the incarceration of [Kurdish
                      leader Abdullah] Ocalan in 2005, the concept of the all-out pressure
                      and attack on the Kurdish people also took the form of operations
                      against the guerrillas. Noting that in 2005 Kurdistan was turned into
                      a theatre of operations, the statement points out that in addition to
                      the constant oppression of the people, forests were also set on fire.

                      Recalling the state terrorism caught red-handed by the people in
                      Semdinli, the statement notes that as manifested in the concluding
                      declaration of yesterday's MGK [Turkish National Security Council]
                      meeting, the Turkish state insist on continuing the war. With the
                      introduction of the all-out struggle and action plan mentioned in
                      the MGK declaration, it has already become obvious that the existing
                      climate of clashes will be further expanded and intensified in 2006.

                      The HPG statement finally says that the HPG is prepared to confront
                      such belligerent concepts directed against the legitimate democratic
                      struggle of the Kurdish people.
                      "All truth passes through three stages:
                      First, it is ridiculed;
                      Second, it is violently opposed; and
                      Third, it is accepted as self-evident."

                      Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

                      Comment

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