Pkk - terrorist organization or freedom fighters?

[Kharpert]

This poll shouldn't be so definitive. One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter. Those not actively involved in their agenda can see it both ways.

[imported_RUDO]

Yes PKK was a terrorist organization. Killing both Kurds,Turks and innocent people can not be named freedom fighting.

However we, goverment or people of Turkey must also see that many of our wrong doings in terms of human rights helped PKK to gain such influence across Kurdish people of Turkey.

That said, my vote goes to terrorist organization.

Yes,you are right.There is a Kurd Problem in Turkey.And it is getting bigger and bigger day by day I think.Both PKK's attacks and Turkey's attidues against Kurds make the problem bigger.Terrorism is not the solution for political problems.So I think Turkey should solve The Kurd Problem by political way.If not I think Kurds will take apart from the Turkish Government.And it will be bad both Kurds and Turks.

[1.5 million]

I won't vote in this poll because I don't think they are either per se - though perhaps a bit of both.

My view of the PKK is analogous to one where you are continually being beaten up by a big bully - you turn for help - who do you get - some milktoast? No - you go for the craziest - most bada ss SOB you can find...and thats who the Kurds turned too.

Again - like the Armenian Genocide - the Turks cannot blame others for the violence - and their pursuit of a violent solution is equally unethical/immoral.

Though perhaps the Jews are behind it all - eh?

[Reincarnated Am]

I knew chameleons can change the color of their skins, but I didn’t know they’re also able to twist someone’s words.

[imported_Arev]

The Stab in the Back Israel plays the Kurdish card – and Americans are caught in the crossfire

by Justin Raimondo

The victors in the Iraq war are now moving rapidly to consolidate their gains, and carry out the second phase of their operation. No, I don't mean the June 30 American handover of pseudo-"sovereignty" to a puppet regime, but the ongoing invasion of Kurdistan by Israeli operatives trying to spark a war of secession. Thanks – once again – to the indispensable Seymour Hersh, the truth about what is happening in Iraq – and why – is coming out, as the real victors help themselves to the spoils of war. While American troops are fighting and dying to maintain the independence and unity of the Iraqi state, the Israelis, operating behind our backs and in the shadows, are working to split the country up:

"In a series of interviews in Europe, the Middle East, and the United States, officials told me that by the end of last year Israel had concluded that the Bush Administration would not be able to bring stability or democracy to Iraq, and that Israel needed other options. Prime Minister Ariel Sharon's government decided, I was told, to minimize the damage that the war was causing to Israel's strategic position by expanding its long-standing relationship with Iraq's Kurds and establishing a significant presence on the ground in the semi-autonomous region of Kurdistan. Several officials depicted Sharon's decision, which involves a heavy financial commitment, as a potentially reckless move that could create even more chaos and violence as the insurgency in Iraq continues to grow."

Gee, I thought Israel had nothing to do with this war, and that anyone who said otherwise was merely spreading anti-Semitic canards. Why, in that case, does Israel need "other options," or, indeed, any options at all?

This war was always about enhancing Israel's strategic position, and nothing else: not oil, not democracy, not WMD. The goal was to extend Israel's sphere of influence, and that is precisely what is occurring. To the victor go the spoils, and Hersh's revelations highlight the Israelis as the real winners of this war:

"Israeli intelligence and military operatives are now quietly at work in Kurdistan, providing training for Kurdish commando units and, most important in Israel's view, running covert operations inside Kurdish areas of Iran and Syria. Israel feels particularly threatened by Iran, whose position in the region has been strengthened by the war. The Israeli operatives include members of the Mossad, Israel's clandestine foreign-intelligence service, who work undercover in Kurdistan as businessmen and, in some cases, do not carry Israeli passports."

I love how the issue is framed in Hersh's piece: the Israelis advised us to seal the Iraqi borders against Iranian infiltration, we are told, and warned that the violence was bound to increase. As if only they could have predicted the altogether predictable. What geniuses! A former top Administration official cites his Israeli counterparts as saying: "You're not going to get it right in Iraq, and shouldn't we be planning for the worst-case scenario and how to deal with it?"

In other words: if you're not going to install Ahmed Chalabi and his gang – who promised to recognize Israel and even build an oil pipeline from Mosul to Haifa – and you won't do to the Iraqis what we're doing to the Palestinians, then we'll just have to take matters into our own hands.

By arming Kurdish commando (i.e. terrorist) units, and launching provocative incursions, the long arm of Israel is reaching out to jab Syria and Iran – and stab the U.S. in the back. They did it, so we are supposed to understand, more in sorrow than in anger – after all, they warned us, didn't they?

What chutzpah!

Desperate to maintain a semblance of stability amid increasing chaos, U.S. viceroy Paul Bremer is trying to maintain a delicate balancing act between the Shi'ite Muslim majority, which longs for an Iranian-style Islamic "republic," and the various non-Arab minority groups, notably the Kurds in the north, who demand autonomy, and, in some cases, independence. The Kurds managed to win concessions from Bremer and the interim government, but with the June 30 transfer looming, tried to get these incorporated in the UN resolution – and failed. In response, the two main Kurdish leaders sent an open letter to the Americans and their Iraqi clients, threatening to pull out of the deal entirely and unilaterally declare Kurdistan's independence.

It is in this context that the Israelis initiated what they call "Plan B": sneaking into Kurdish territory, arming dissident Kurdish factions, and actively undermining the American strategy. Israeli support for the Kurds is nothing new: in alliance with the Shah of Iran, Tel Aviv sought to undermine Ba'athist rule in Iraq by financing and shipping arms to Kurdish rebels, abandoning them when it was no longer convenient. The rationale for starting up the old relationship again, as explained by a senior CIA official to Hersh, is as follows:

"'They think they have to be there.' Asked whether the Israelis had sought approval from Washington, the official laughed and said, 'Do you know anybody who can tell the Israelis what to do? They're always going to do what is in their best interest.'"

Too bad we can't say the same for the Americans. While U.S. soldiers are fighting and dying for the lost cause of Iraqi "democracy," the real beneficiaries of this war are doing their best to make sure that chaos reigns – and we're caught in the crossfire. Violence is already on the uptick in northern Iraq, including reports of armed conflict between U.S soldiers and Kurdish peshmergas. Assassinations and sabotage are taking place almost daily – amid the continuing ethnic cleansing of Arabs and Turks from the area, carried out by Kurdish militants with American acquiescence. According to this Knight-Ridder report, Paul Harvey, Bremer's man in Kirkuk, avers the anti-Arab pogrom is entirely justified because:

"They have every right to do so. It's a frontier spirit here. This is their land and they're rebuilding."

But now that the Kurds are once again complaining that they've been "betrayed," U.S. forces are under siege – but from whom? Gee, I dunno: perhaps the same terrorists who killed a prominent Turkmen politician and evicted 100,000 Iraqi Arabs from their land. Or maybe it was the same guys who did this. It's that Kurdish "frontier spirit."

The target of a recent car bomb attack in the mostly Arab city of Mosul in northern Iraq, Mayor Salem al-Hadj Isa, escaped unharmed, but 10 people were killed and over 100 wounded. The same day, a car bomb shook the northern Iraqi city of Baqouba, near the former Iraqi air force base of al-Faris, now occupied by U.S. troops, killing at least four Iraqis and one U.S. soldier, with 16 Iraqis and 10 Americans wounded.

Empowered by the influx of Israeli assistance, training, and arms, growing anti-American sentiment among radical Kurdish nationalists could lead to open warfare, directed not only at their ethnic rivals but also at U.S. troops, the ultimate guarantors of the post-June 30 order.

Habitually blaming all violence in Iraq on the influx of "foreign fighters," Bush administration spokesmen may be telling us more than they mean to say. In the days before Saddam's capture, and for months afterward, all violence directed at coalition military assets was identified as the work of Ba'athist "remnants." These days, however, the culprits are increasingly described as these mysterious "foreign fighters," generally taken to be Al Qaeda and its Islamist allies. But now there's a new "foreign" factor at work – the Israelis.

If you look at a map of what the pershmerga claim as "Kurdistan," a huge swath of territory that snakes through every country in the northern core of the Middle East, it clearly resembles a very long fuse – just waiting to be lit. Now that our friends, the Israelis, have struck a match, it's only a matter of time before we witness the resulting explosion.

The Israeli justification for embarking on this dangerous course, as reported by Hersh, is that their "strategic position" is being undermined by U.S. bungling of the occupation, and if that doesn't expose them as the ultimate ingrates of all time then nothing will. We were dragged into this occupation, after all, by Israel's amen corner in Washington, as General Anthony Zinni, the former commander of U.S. forces in the Middle East put it:

"'Certainly those in your ranks that foisted this strategy on us that is flawed. Certainly they ought to be gone and replaced.'

"Zinni is talking about a group of policymakers within the administration known as 'the neo-conservatives' who saw the invasion of Iraq as a way to stabilize American interests in the region and strengthen the position of Israel. …Zinni believes they are political ideologues who have hijacked American policy in Iraq.

"'I think it's the worst kept secret in Washington. That everybody – everybody I talk to in Washington has known and fully knows what their agenda was and what they were trying to do.'"

Intelligence expert James Bamford also knows what the neocons were trying to do, and offers further evidence of an Israeli connection to the phony "intelligence" that lied us into war. The "blueprint for war," he writes, had been drawn up long ago by pro-Israeli hawks in the highest foreign policy councils of the U.S. government: all they required was a "pretext for war," hence the title of Bamford's bestselling new book. Working through the Office of Special Plans, a Pentagon unit set up by Pentagon policy secretary Douglas Feith, the War Party in this country "forged close ties to a parallel, ad hoc intelligence unit within Ariel Sharon's office in Israel," that "was designed to go around the country's own intelligence organization, Mossad."

Having manipulated the hapless Americans into an unwinnable war, are the Israelis now amping up the violence by organizing such terroristic groups as the Kurdish Workers Party (PKK), in spite of their own role in turning the group's leader over to the Turks? The PKK has recently declared an end to their "unilateral ceasefire," a course previously urged on them by the captive Abdullah Ocalan. That this occurred just as news of Israel's infiltration and "support" to the Kurds began to leak out, is, of course, pure coincidence.

This latest development underscores the upside-down "logic" of our Iraqi adventure, which seems to be taking place in some sort of Bizarro World alternate universe, where everything is turned into its opposite. The war in Iraq, as Professor Paul W. Schroeder pointed out in a footnote (not online) to a piece in The American Conservative,

"Would represent something to my knowledge unique in history. It is common for great powers to try to fight wars by proxy, getting smaller powers to fight for their interests. This would be the first instance I know where a great power (in fact, a superpower) would do the fighting as the proxy of a small client state."

As Israeli agents flood Kurdistan with arms and ill intent, Professor Schroeder's thesis acquires another surprising element: it would be the first instance that I know of where a superpower, after fighting a proxy war on behalf of a pipsqueak client, is kicked directly in the teeth by its ingrate of an "ally."

Source: http://www.antiwar.com/justin/?articleid=2859

[imported_Arev]

Corrosive Israeli Mossad in Iraqi Kurdistan

Imad Khadduri, Free Iraq

December 2, 2005

For the past year, every single news excerpt that has been posted on this site has been meticulously referenced to its original source. This posting will not be able to do that since the source, Yedioth Ahronoth, is in Hebrew with rare translations of its content in English and Arabic. However, these items are noteworthy.

Israelis trained Kurds in Iraq Yediot Ahronot, December 1, 2005
"A number of Israeli companies have won contracts with the Kurdish government in northern Iraq to train and equip Kurdish security forces and build an international airport, Yedioth Ahronoth reports; al-Qaeda warning of attack prompts hasty exit of all Israeli instructors from region Anat Tal-Shir.
Dozens of Israelis with a background in elite military combat training have been working for private Israeli companies in northern Iraq where they helped the Kurds establish elite anti-terror units, Israel’s leading newspaper Yedioth Ahronot revealed Thursday.

According to the report, the Kurdish government contracted Israeli security and communications companies to train Kurdish security forces and provide them with advanced equipment.bMotorola Israel and Magalcom Communications and Computers won contracts with the Kurdish government to the tune of hundreds of millions of U.S. dollars.

The flagship of the contracts is the construction of an international airport in the northern Kurdish city of Ibril, a stepping stone towards the fulfillment of Kurdish national aspirations for independence.

In addition to Motorola and Magalcom, a company owned by Israeli entrepreneur Shlomi Michaels is in full business partnership with the Kurdish government,providing strategic consultation on economic and security issues.
The strategic consultation company was initially established by former Mossad chief Danny Yatom (Labor) and Michaels, yet Yatom sold his shares upon his election to the Knesset.

But that’s not all. Leading Israeli companies in the field of security and counter-terrorism have set up a training camp under the codename Z at a secret location in a deserted region in northern Iraq, where Israeli experts provide training in live fire exercises and self-defense to Kurdish security forces.

Al-Qaeda warning prompts hasty Israeli exit

Tons of equipment, including motorcycles, tractors, sniffer dogs, systems to upgrade Kalashnikov rifles, and bulletproof vests, have been shipped to Iraq’s northern region, with most products stamped 'Made in Israel.’
The Israeli instructors entered Iraq through Turkey using their Israeli passports, undercover as agriculture experts and infrastructure engineers.

The Kurds had insisted the cooperation projects were kept secret, fearing exposure would motivate terror groups to target their Jewish guests.
Recent warnings that al-Qaeda may plan an attack on Kurdish training camps, prompted a hasty exit of all Israeli trainers from Iraq’s northern Kurdish regions.

The Defense Ministry said in response to the report that, "We haven’t allowed Israelis to work in Iraq, and each activity, if performed, was a private initiative, without our authorization, and is under the responsibility of the employers and the employees involved."

"The Defense Ministry renews its warning to Israeli citizens who choose to ignore our guidance and travel to banned destinations."

MK denies connection to strategic firm

Motorola Israel said it is a U.S. company that operates in over 70 countries throughout the world, including in Iraq where it helped set up a cellular phone network and provided communications systems and equipment to Iraqi security forces.

"Motorola’s global operations are in full accordance with U.S. laws, and the laws of local governments," a Motorola official said.
Magalcom sufficed with the following statement: "Being a public company traded on the NASDAQ and the Tel Aviv Stock Exchange, Magalcom reports on its activities as required by law. The company is not in the habit of disclosing information about its customers beyond what appears in our reports."

MK Yatom said he has had no contact with the strategic consultation company since being elected to the Knesset.
"I haven’t promoted it and insisted on not receiving updates about its activities," he said.

This is a short version of the above.

Israelis training Kurds in northern Iraq - Reuters, December 1, 2005

This is a much more detailed version of the above (in Arabic), with names and dates.
.
الأكراد يجدون صعوبة في مواصلة المسرحية. كل تلميح ولو صغير في صحيفة سعودية حول المشاركة الاسرائيلية العسكرية في العراق، كان يثير حفيظتهم وذعرهم. هم عرفوا أن كشف المشاركة الاسرائيلية في كردستان سيكون نهاية للتجارة المزدهرة. وهو ايضا نهاية لحرية تجوال الاسرائيلي في شمالي العراق.عندما دخل سنغري الى قاعدة غاضبا، بادعاء أن الاستخبارات الايرانية قد كشفت القاعدة الاسرائيلية، رحل الاسرائيليون من هناك. ليس فورا، وليسوا كلهم، إلا أنهم فروا. ولكن خلال شهر لم يبق أي اسرائيلي هناك. ولم تكن أي اموال حتى لو كانت رواتب ضخمة، وحالمة، لتُبقيهم في ذلك المكان.ء
في عُمق العدو
بقلم: تصادوق يحزقيلي وآخرين
يديعوت - تقرير -December 2, 2005
.
Israel's Mossad has had a long history with the Barazani Kurdish clan in Northern Iraq and is documented in the book "The Mossad in Iraq" by Shlomo Nakdimon (a review of the book in Arabic).

Source: http://www.uruknet.info/?s1=1&p=18363&s2=03

[imported_RUDO]

I have voted at last.My vote is they are terrorists.Because I hope Kurd problem will be able to solved in a political way.
Reincarnated AM Will you close this thread then?

[imported_RUDO]

PKK Suspected of Internet Cafe Bombing

PKK Suspected of Internet Cafe Bombing
By National News Desk, Istanbul
Published: Friday, February 10, 2006
zaman.com


An explosion in an internet Cafe in Istanbul injured 15 people including seven police officers. Zafer Isik, 21, was critically injured in the explosion, and later died at the hospital.

Reportedly an A-4 type bomb, generally used by the terrorist organization PKK, caused the blast. The bomb’s effect was amplified as the explosion took place in a building.


The police think the bomb may have been planted by a terror organization as the explosion took place near the squad center.

An eyewitness said the owner of the cafe left the building right before the explosion.


The Chief of Security Directorate, Celalettin Cerrah and Chief Public Prosecutor Aykut Cengiz Engin examined the area.

The same type bomb has been used in recent explosions at a gas station and the Galata Bridge in Eminonu.


Police had determined that these bombs were placed by PKK militants. Investigators suspect this particular event was also organized by PKK and is trying to determine who placed the bomb.

[imported_RUDO]

Terror Organization Attempts to Infiltrate into Iraqi Army

Terror Organization Attempts to Infiltrate into Iraqi Army
By Sedat Gunec, Ankara
Published: Sunday, February 12, 2006
zaman.com


It was revealed that the terrorist organization Kurdistan Workers’ Party (PKK/Kongra-Gel) has been trying to get its militants to be enlisted as officers in the Iraqi army.

The organization attempted to get nearly 60 militants to be accepted to the Zakho Military Academy. It has been learned that Murat Karayilan, a member of the presidential council of PKK, has been exerting effort for the acceptance of terrorists into the academy. The graduates of the academy can start working as officers in the Iraqi army and be promoted up to generalship. According to intelligence reports, the brigadier Shahab Ahmad heads the Zakho Military Academy. The academy will accept about 250-350 high school graduate trainees within February. The length of the training is 8 months and officers for instruction are carefully selected.

[imported_RUDO]

Istanbul cafe bomb targets police, 14 hurt
Feb. 9, 2006 at 10:50AM
A Kurdish militant group claimed responsibility Thursday for the bombing of an Istanbul Internet caf? frequented by police that injured 14 people.
Police Chief Celalettin Cerrah said six officers were among the wounded, one of them seriously, CNN reported.
The Netherlands-based pro-Kurdish Firat News Agency said a group called the Kurdistan Freedom Falcons, or TAK, claimed responsibility.
The group is affiliated with the banned Kurdistan Workers Party, whose leader is being held in solitary confinement, the BBC said.
The party has been fighting the Turkish authorities since 1984 in a drive for self-rule in the country's mainly Kurdish southeast

https://www.washtimes.com