Question to people of Turkish decent

[TurQ]

"kici ile dinlemek" means understanding from the reverse, or getting the reverse meaning, not udnerstanding from the ass

And we know how trustworthy Turkish sources are on this subject, now don't we! As for Joseph, he also says that the actions of the Ittihadists amounted to Genocide, and probably also thinks that the total population of Armenians was 2.5 million, but you don't accept his word on that, now do you. If you want to take Joseph's numbers, then that means 500,000 Armenians were left from a total population of 2.5 million (loss of 80%); still not "gradual".



TurQ, using the word "gradual" is a massive deception and you know it. Perhaps after the immense destruction that eliminated 85-90% of the population within a matter of 3 years, it may have been "gradual" after that according to your slanted understanding of the word. But in no way can a rational and honest person call the loss of the Armenian presence in Turkey "gradual". Kicinla konusursan, bende kicimla dinlerim; niye guzelim kulagimi senin kicina ziyan edeyim.

[TurQ]

For the trustworthyness, there is no comment.
SO let met state a source that you might consider trustworthy.

Hrant Dink said this in an interview(Let me post the interview later on ok?)
he once talked with an Armenian Historian from US, whom, he does not want to give the name(but I am sure if you call or email him he might tell this to an Istanbul Armenian),
and Hrant Dink asked him
"How many people have survived the events and continued living in Turkey?"
The historian responds "Around 500,000 survived" and the historian goes on
"we dont want to talk about this because it will hurt our 1.5 Million Thesis "

Anyways, let me find the original links or the interview, I'll let you to translate it into English, you might think I am being decieving again.

Ottoman resources say 800,000- have died in those events, it is already a horrible number. And Ottoman state itself procecuted those responsible because they harmed the "Citizens" of Ottoman state. SO you shouldnt thnk that Ottomans both decreasing the number and prosecuting the responsilble".

Ethen Mahcupyan says, the Tashnak archives in Boston has all this info, for the same reasons(support of 1.5 million thesis) these Tashnak guys refuse to open their archives, because they have all the names who continued to live. I would assume you would accept the archives in Boston be trustworthy, ask them to verify those numbers by their own archives and make it free to all researches. It sounds fair to me

And we know how trustworthy Turkish sources are on this subject, now don't we! As for Joseph, he also says that the actions of the Ittihadists amounted to Genocide, and probably also thinks that the total population of Armenians was 2.5 million, but you don't accept his word on that, now do you. If you want to take Joseph's numbers, then that means 500,000 Armenians were left from a total population of 2.5 million (loss of 80%); still not "gradual".



TurQ, using the word "gradual" is a massive deception and you know it. Perhaps after the immense destruction that eliminated 85-90% of the population within a matter of 3 years, it may have been "gradual" after that according to your slanted understanding of the word. But in no way can a rational and honest person call the loss of the Armenian presence in Turkey "gradual". Kicinla konusursan, bende kicimla dinlerim; niye guzelim kulagimi senin kicina ziyan edeyim.

[1.5 million]

TurQ - again you present us with so much unsupported bullxxxx. And again i ask - "how much is your air force paying you for this" - or is this just a duty as assigned?

The 1.5 million number is not an Armenian thesis.

500,000 survived? Says who, from where and over what period? This says little or nothing.

And I wouldn't put any hope in the "Tashnak Archives" in holding any great key to the wisdom concerning all who survived - as Armenians who susrvived were not all under Tashnak sway and it would be next to impossible for the Tashnaks to make these sort of counts in regions beyond their control. I know for a fact that my Grandmother survived the Genocide (in Constantinople) then left for the States after living in Paris for a number of years - she was listed as French when she came to the U.S. - anyway one point is that such numbers are hard to come by for a great many reasons.

What I find interesting is that you take so much effort to attempt to chip away at any Genocide claim while stating that you believe the CUP was responsible for great crimes. Imagine that you were a German - and you agreed that the Nazis did horrible things to the Jews etc - what would be your motivation to then continually attempt to exonerate them by attacking the accepted fadcts of the Holocaust and attempting to support justifications for the Nazis campaign to exterminate Jews?

[TurQ]

Look -

If you have real "grave" concerns you can verify what I am saying. That guy
is a brilliant guy(got something around 193 from OSS ) out of 60,000 Istanbul Armenian I am sure you can easily learn about this guy easily, ask some community leaders of Istanbul Armenians who that guy was(I dont want to give the exact year here, I can PM if you like).

Or you can ask a Turkish speaking Armenian(may be Phantom) to call Turkish Airforce academy whether they "accept" minority applications or not. Also Hitite might help us out for this. These are public information ok? There is nothing to hide or in this case falsify about. Check out the TUrkish airforce academy website(I dont have right now, but will do for you later ons)

About the 1.5 Million thesis you should direct this to Hrant Dink not me, he knows the name, I will post the interview, ask him if you really have "grave" concerns about my accuracy allright my 1.5 times narsist friend?

Be humble a little bit not everything is written down by Dadrian or others. I am sorry about your family and your grandma, but at least you know your grandma is 100% Armenian. I dont know my dad's grandma's origin in 100%,because of the catastrophy and mass immigration from Caucusia

TurQ - again you present us with so much unsupported bullxxxx. And again i ask - "how much is your air force paying you for this" - or is this just a duty as assigned?

The 1.5 million number is not an Armenian thesis.

500,000 survived? Says who, from where and over what period? This says little or nothing.

And I wouldn't put any hope in the "Tashnak Archives" in holding any great key to the wisdom concerning all who survived - as Armenians who susrvived were not all under Tashnak sway and it would be next to impossible for the Tashnaks to make these sort of counts in regions beyond their control. I know for a fact that my Grandmother survived the Genocide (in Constantinople) then left for the States after living in Paris for a number of years - she was listed as French when she came to the U.S. - anyway one point is that such numbers are hard to come by for a great many reasons.

What I find interesting is that you take so much effort to attempt to chip away at any Genocide claim while stating that you believe the CUP was responsible for great crimes. Imagine that you were a German - and you agreed that the Nazis did horrible things to the Jews etc - what would be your motivation to then continually attempt to exonerate them by attacking the accepted fadcts of the Holocaust and attempting to support justifications for the Nazis campaign to exterminate Jews?

[1.5 million]

Look -

If you have real "grave" concerns you can verify what I am saying. That guy
is a brilliant guy(got something around 193 from OSS ) out of 60,000 Istanbul Armenian I am sure you can easily learn about this guy easily, ask some community leaders of Istanbul Armenians who that guy was(I dont want to give the exact year here, I can PM if you like).

Or you can ask a Turkish speaking Armenian(may be Phantom) to call Turkish Airforce academy whether they "accept" minority applications or not. Also Hitite might help us out for this. These are public information ok? There is nothing to hide or in this case falsify about. Check out the TUrkish airforce academy website(I dont have right now, but will do for you later ons)

About the 1.5 Million thesis you should direct this to Hrant Dink not me, he knows the name, I will post the interview, ask him if you really have "grave" concerns about my accuracy allright my 1.5 times narsist friend?

Be humble a little bit not everything is written down by Dadrian or others. I am sorry about your family and your grandma, but at least you know your grandma is 100% Armenian. I dont know my dad's grandma's origin in 100%,because of the catastrophy and mass immigration from Caucusia

I was never disputing your story about the Armenian being #1 on the list BTW...just all of the rest...questioning your motivations here and the true relevancy of what you are posting...

[TurQ]

You said my claims are unsupported, this is disputing, you can dispute thats normal. I am telling you how you can reach the correct information.

YOu just sellect some key words and then make your case. That isnt honest. I was telling you that there was a clear policy of depopulating Armenians from Anatolian cities to Istanbul and then migrate them to abroad in republican days, and you are telling me that I have some motivations because I also noted that Airforce Academy is accepting applications from Armenian citizens of Turkey. This is a reality. Turkey has ne ver ever told this, I dont think just an handful of people in Turkey might know about this. I thought this should be heard. Turkish military has never told this or any government agency.
Turkish military do not need to accept those applications, and obviously Armenians do not believe in it eventhough it is a fact. What's the gain for them? Army does not accept applications from Imam Hatip high schools for example, they clearly state this. But they do accept applications from Armenian citizens. This means that they dont discriminate by race. This is fact, and stating this fact should have some ill motivations? THis does not mean that everything is OK for Armenians in Turkey, but definitely Turkey is NOT the Turkey that Diaspora Armenians try to portray.

30,000 Armenian citizens of Armenia work and earn their lives and bread from Turkey. Tell me who is appriciating Turkey for this? Not everythings is great but not every is bad as you guys tell. TUrkey dont have to allow those 30,000 something Armenians to work in Turkey right? And Those 30,000 would probably had to immigrate for some other countries including US. And YOu would see those Armenians be just another immigrated Armenian. At least they are now earning, and sending money to their families in Armenia, and they keep their citizens in Armenia and Armenia DONT LOSE them. And in return what we are hearing from you Guys? TUrkey is doing an other GENOCIDE for border thing, Turkey is this TUrkey is That, Turks are like this etc etc. You have to step on realities first and then have an attitude towards Turks. There are positive things going on between Turks and Armenians, but it is SO easy to scrap those away and try to find some reasons to hate Turkey. This wont help believe me!
It is not my MOTIVATION, it is YOUR PERCEPTION.

I was never disputing your story about the Armenian being #1 on the list BTW...just all of the rest...questioning your motivations here and the true relevancy of what you are posting...

[1.5 million]

I never made any mention of questioning the issue of the Armenian at the top of the list - show me where i did...frankly it is immaterial and I don't at all understand what this has to do with anything. I (perhaps tongue and cheek)was accusing you of being in the pay of the Turkish Air Force in your constant efforts to denigrate Armenian Genocide claims...I should also note that as usual you find a way to bypass real issues and devolve along meaningless diatribes as in this last pos of yours where i can hardly understand at all what you are talking about or trying to get at except to think that somewhere contained in it all is a vieled threat against Armenians that if we keep pushing for Genocide recognition you Turks will find away to hurt Armenians in Turkey - is this your point? Is this what indeed you are getting at?

[TurQ]

This is sick

at except to think that somewhere contained in it all is a vieled threat against Armenians that if we keep pushing for Genocide recognition you Turks will find away to hurt Armenians in Turkey - is this your point? Is this what indeed you are getting at?

[phantom]

TurQ, your last 4 posts are irrelevant to the issue that we were discussing, which was your absurd determination that the elimination of Armenians from Turkey was "gradual". And 1.5m has apparently taken your bate!

Whether 1.5 million died, or 800,000 died, is irrelevant. The point is that in a matter of 3 years, wether by death or emmigration or whatever, at least 80% of the Armenian population was eliminated, and that's not "gradual". So please refrain from straying from that topic. What Hrant Dink says about the number of deaths, or what the Tashnag archives say about the number of deaths; in fact, what anybody says about the number of deaths is outside the scope of this issue.

[TurQ]

Anlamak istediginiz yere cekiyorsunuz ne diyim. Lafi taktiniz graduala. Sanki Ermenilerin cok buyuk kisminin o donemde ayrildigini el alem bilmiyormus gibi.

YOu guys stuck with a word, as if I do not know (may be millions of times expressed here)that most armenians did not killed or left in 15.

They are 100% relevant, again as Hrant says these guys are pursueing a policy over death, which is sick ok?
And you asked a resource that would be trustworthy for the numbers and I stated. If it was totally unrelevant why did you ask? Is 500,000 not a relevant number? THis contradicts the tragedy of 15? No!. He says Only around 20-40 thousands survived and left in Anatolia. This is WRONG!

I explained what I meant by gradual, if you guys dont want to understand like me thats your thing, but I expressed and explained what I meant, it is BIG full stop. 1.5's nacism and obsession with words is the reason not me. He can play with my English and twist things around, it just makes him the demogogue. Now he claims I am after Turkish Armenians.

This is just sick OK? Nothing but sick and an insult to me.

This people would rather see Turkish armenians be harmed by Turks than live in peace with Turks so that they can bad mouth against Turks. I am just astonished how you cant see his false attitude in discussions!

TurQ, your last 4 posts are irrelevant to the issue that we were discussing, which was your absurd determination that the elimination of Armenians from Turkey was "gradual". And 1.5m has apparently taken your bate!

Whether 1.5 million died, or 800,000 died, is irrelevant. The point is that in a matter of 3 years, wether by death or emmigration or whatever, at least 80% of the Armenian population was eliminated, and that's not "gradual". So please refrain from straying from that topic. What Hrant Dink says about the number of deaths, or what the Tashnag archives say about the number of deaths; in fact, what anybody says about the number of deaths is outside the scope of this issue.