Question to people of Turkish decent

[maral_m79]

Your view belongs to you, I respect that. But I said
My history is not shameful for me

But the question is, do you have enough courage to face it?? I mean shameful or not , do you have the guts to accept it and make peace with it ?

[maral_m79]

Most Turks or Kurds who live in East or South east have a clear understanding of these events from their own families
including the sufferings of Armenians. The thing is most Armenians do not know anything about how Turks and Kurds
suffered during WW-I in eastern Anatolia. They simply think that Turks were OK, they stole the wealth of Armenians
and got rich and happily lived, and experienced nothing in WW-I.
I wish things were a lot different, and these had never ever happened between you and us. But blaming everything done by Ittihadists upon
every Turkish citizen and blaming everything done by Tashnak and Hinchak upon average Armenian will not solve
anything, thats what I know thats what I say.

TurQ, as you said earlier, you are a descent of Caucasian Turks (maybe Balkan .. not sure) ...
If ANYONE hates Armenians, or ALL Christians for all that matters, it would be the Caucas Turks of that time... They blame their suffering in the Balkan Wars on ALL Christians, and they had the apportiunity to revenge , and they did.. Now I'm not accusing you or your family of anything, and it's unreasonable to do so...

But what does Armenians have to do with the suffering of Turks during the Balkan war, or even WWI ?? Armenians DID NOT Start Those wars, Armenians were not even allowed to carry guns up until Ottomans needed them to fight in those wars .... Why do you punish Ottoman Armenians for something maybe the Russian Armenians did or not ? Is that reasonable ?
In the Allies army of WWI there were Jews Greek, Kurds and Armenians Of Russian empire .... Why would you punish the Ottoman Armenians for that ?? and in the same sense why you didn't punish Ottoman Jews, Greek, and Kurds ???

No one is blaming ALL Turks ... No ONE CAN because it's ridiclous.. for the 1000 time I repeat, Armenians DO NOT HATE Turks, Armenians have NOTHING AGAINST individual Turks, Armenians problem is with the Turkish Government's denial !!!

[maral_m79]

No I am not a member of Ulkucu movement. I am a nationalist but this does not mean that I am member of MHP. I had friends from MHP(actually from every walk of political life I had friends including partisan party members). When I was in high school I was a supporter of Turgut Ozal, after him I dont see any politician to support.

I dont remember advocating them, I just say what I know. I personally greatly dislike Bahceli or his brother Dogu perincek. There are lots of things that I dont like with Turkes as well, but this does not mean that I have to demonise them. I dont like CHP for sure, but I know lots of reasonable people within CHP, this does not mean that I have to demonise CHP.

I will find out that articles by Can Dundar about Turkes's relations with Levon Ter Petrosyan to establish relations between Turkey and Armenia etc.

There is a bad attitude in Turkey, if we dont like a person or some group we demonise it, using no knowledge but only emotions. You may not like somebody or some group but you have to know what you dislike or what you hate. This is my opinion RUDO.

See ... I knew it , you are indeed a well established person in Turkey TurQ as I concluded before


Now we are curious HOW well established you are .... and who are you (j/k)

[hitite]

Oh, so ur saying that it will never happen???!!?? Turkey will never be admitted into the EU if it doesn't admit...Why else have u guys been waiting to be submitted for the past 30 +yrs???

So you really think Turkey has not been accepted in the EC-EU for the past few decades because it doesn't accept the Armenian Genocide? This shows you know nothing about the topic. Even though the issue has been brought up by member states like France it was never and never will be a prerequisite for EU entry and it is not among the Copenhagen criteria. How much do you think EU member states really care about the death of millions of Armenians 90 years ago??? How many of these politicians that have accepted the A.G. in their parliaments really know or have read anything about the A.G?? Do you think they really give a crap about you, millions lying dead or Armeno-Turkish healing. Or could you tell me that you really dont mind if these politicians know anything about the Armenian Genocide as long as it suits your purpose?

[1.5 million]

maral - your reply #30 in this thread was right on point. kudos.

And to all the denying Turks here who can do no better but bring up excuses and claim it was just "war" - well...I much imagine the germans after WWII could make the exact same "arguments" - but we all know what happened. And regarding the Armenian banditry or what have you in the East. Well you are not fooling us who know about these things - there were activities after the massacres in the 1890s that had really not amounted to very much...and just prior to the war the Dashnaks in particular - concerned to curry CUP favor and perhaps still hopeful of an Ottoman Utopia - had ceased all such activities 9actually since about 1910 I believe). Yes there were some local highwaymen - robbers and such - who were Armenian - as there were (far greaters numbers) of Kurds and Turks who did such. So when you are referring to family killed by Armenians (tales of such...like tales of poisened bread I imagine - for the most part) - anyway - those with such tales are more then likely referring to the period after 1916...wehn the Armenian genocide had been all but completed. Yes - survivors who had fled to the Caucuses and areas under Russian control were quite bitter and upset after having lost evrything and seen all their people and families killed - of course - and many of them did similar to Turks who then came undewr their control - sad and tragic yes - but somewhat understandable. BTW - the estimate of these deaths by Turkish Scholar Halil Bektay is that these numbers (of Turks killed by Armenians in this way) is likley no more the 10,000...he then goes on to say that even these numbers cannot be compared to that to Armenians killed by the Turks...for that latter was clearly a government policy of extermination - and was undertaken with full ottoman Government culpalibility utilizing the aparatus of Government - overt and covert. So please - I am quite tired of these counter-claims - nearly to the point of regretting expressing any sympathy at all for them in the past.

[hitite]

Bulllllhit!
But thank you L'elendil for your part to perffectly demonstrate Turkish stubborness on this issue .
Thanks god The acknowledgment of genocide is not up to Turks it will be decided by greater powers you will only get the summons to witness your own execution.
If it is left to the Turks of course they will never acknowledge.

So... I guess its "fight fire with fire" after all. So when great powers kick the hell out of Turkey and put her on her knees and strangle the words "I admit" out of her you are going to be a happy Armenian? Dont you really care that Turks and Armenians start talking, interacting, trading, travelling to eachothers country and start understanding eachother. Or are you the "I wish Turkey never recognizes the A.G. coz my name is Armenoid" type of freak.

[phantom]

So you really think Turkey has not been accepted in the EC-EU for the past few decades because it doesn't accept the Armenian Genocide? This shows you know nothing about the topic. Even though the issue has been brought up by member states like France it was never and never will be a prerequisite for EU entry and it is not among the Copenhagen criteria. How much do you think EU member states really care about the death of millions of Armenians 90 years ago??? How many of these politicians that have accepted the A.G. in their parliaments really know or have read anything about the A.G?? Do you think they really give a crap about you, millions lying dead or Armeno-Turkish healing. Or could you tell me that you really dont mind if these politicians know anything about the Armenian Genocide as long as it suits your purpose?

If Turkey was great in every other way except for acknowledging the Armenian Genocide, I agree that it would not be an obstacle to accession. However, under the totality of the circumstances, Turkey is not ready, and its stance on the Armenian Genocide is just one element of its immaturity. Furthermore, its belligerence on this issue hurts both of our peoples and both Armenia and Turkey as nations.

[TurQ]

I think Hitite wanted to point out the immaturity of the EU countries. Their dilemmas and contradictions regarding to Turkey's application.

If Turkey was great in every other way except for acknowledging the Armenian Genocide, I agree that it would not be an obstacle to accession. However, under the totality of the circumstances, Turkey is not ready, and its stance on the Armenian Genocide is just one element of its immaturity. Furthermore, its belligerence on this issue hurts both of our peoples and both Armenia and Turkey as nations.

[Soorp Asdvadz]

But if accension into the EU for Turkey only requires their admitting the genocide...Then would they do it?...Would Turkey admit genocide if it could mean that they will be admitted as a European state?

[hitite]

If Turkey was great in every other way except for acknowledging the Armenian Genocide, I agree that it would not be an obstacle to accession. However, under the totality of the circumstances, Turkey is not ready, and its stance on the Armenian Genocide is just one element of its immaturity. Furthermore, its belligerence on this issue hurts both of our peoples and both Armenia and Turkey as nations.

You are right. Turkey is nowhere near greatness politically or economically. I just wanted to state that the A.G. is merely a political card the EU players pull out even though it is not part of the criteria to be met. EU politicians IMHO are using the death of thousands-millions of Armenians against Turkey as a simple tool. This actually is a very European tactic which does not surprise me. Most of them couldn't care less about the A.G.