Reperation? Ok but How much?

[Varouj]

You forget the fact that you turks are definitely fond of coming here bragging on this or that tourist spot, this or that building, this or that city, even a certain Van xxxxx cat, promoting tourism and turkish products. All of this has been stolen and you are the benefactors of everything that was stolen, especially the land. ESPECIALLY THE LAND.

How much have you made on tourist travel to the Armenian mountain known as Ararat???? Do you even have a small concept in your little mind what goes through the minds of Armenians every time they have to hear crap on documentaries about Mt. Ararat which is located in "turkey"??????? That alone is enough to make the blood boil, so spare us the crap about revenge.

[TurQ]

Just think twice on what you have written here

I am talking about legal steps, justify this on legal basis then say something.

At least by tourism those historical buildings can survive, which I personally against the current treatment of such buildings or cultural heritage.

YOu rblood boils because of you are agitated continously by your leaders.

Face the reality, ARatat is in Turkey. Whatever you do cant change this fact. This is part of Turkish territory. There are better ways to handle this issue, decrease the tensions by not claiming land from Turkey, normalize your approach, then you'll see things will be a lot easier.
Why not Armenian citizen could visit Ani or Ararat daily without a visa?
Look at how tensions decreased between Turkey and Greece people can easily come and go etc. This could very well happen.

You forget the fact that you turks are definitely fond of coming here bragging on this or that tourist spot, this or that building, this or that city, even a certain Van xxxxx cat, promoting tourism and turkish products. All of this has been stolen and you are the benefactors of everything that was stolen, especially the land. ESPECIALLY THE LAND.

How much have you made on tourist travel to the Armenian mountain known as Ararat???? Do you even have a small concept in your little mind what goes through the minds of Armenians every time they have to hear crap on documentaries about Mt. Ararat which is located in "turkey"??????? That alone is enough to make the blood boil, so spare us the crap about revenge.

[Heat]

tell me a single amount for all the suffered Armenians.
Germany paid 60 billion usd to jews, but they were 6 million.

The jews didn't only get a "single amount" of 60 billion usd. Plus they didn't have their ancestral homelands stolen or their property destroyed to complicate things even further as in our case.

[phantom]

TurQ, how can you be so confident about your "legal" position? If you are correct, then how is it that Germany was made to pay for the evil done by the Nazis? Today's Germany has nothing to do with the Nazis, and Germans suffered under the nationalistic policies of the Nazis too, right? And those Nazis were punished and are hated in Germany today aren't they?

The reality is that your arguments really have no legal weight. Furthermore, it is obvious that the Turkish republic is not too confident about your arguments. Otherwise, it would not be so afraid of accepting that what happened was a Genocide? Heck, if there aren't going to be any consequences, why spend so much time, money and effort lying about it and trying to cover it up?

I think the more logical analysis, albeit simplified here, goes like this: there was a Genocide carried out by the Ottoman govt.; neither the Ottoman govt. nor its successor ever paid for this crime; the successor has spent the last 90 years benefiting from the crime, lying about it and trying to cover it up; the successor is responsible for righting this wrong and paying for the crime from which it has been a direct beneficiary.

[Varouj]

Just think twice on what you have written here

I am talking about legal steps, justify this on legal basis then say something.

At least by tourism those historical buildings can survive, which I personally against the current treatment of such buildings or cultural heritage.

You turks are continually on a daily basis committing cultural genocide, trying to remove all traces of the Armenian civilization you eliminated.

YOu rblood boils because of you are agitated continously by your leaders.

In your dreams.

Face the reality, ARatat is in Turkey. Whatever you do cant change this fact.

And people thought the Soviet Union would go on forever. And every empire that fell thought it would last forever.

This is part of Turkish territory. There are better ways to handle this issue, decrease the tensions by not claiming land from Turkey, normalize your approach, then you'll see things will be a lot easier.

Believe me, my approach is NORMAL. See things a lot easier? I will translate that double talk. What you mean is you believe we will see things YOUR way. It will NEVER happen.

Why not Armenian citizen could visit Ani or Ararat daily without a visa?
Look at how tensions decreased between Turkey and Greece people can easily come and go etc. This could very well happen.

Maybe because only people with a few screws loose would pay YOU money to see what rightfully belongs to them and thusly put money into your denialist machine and your military.

BOYCOTT turkey, BOYCOTT ALL turkish PRODUCTS.

[Heat]

Just think twice on what you have written here

I am talking about legal steps, justify this on legal basis then say something.

I have though about these things hundreds of times, so I don't need to think twice. Everything I wrote can be justified on a legal basis and there are precedents to prove it. Anyway, who do you think you are, Tulay Tugcu?

At least by tourism those historical buildings can survive, which I personally against the current treatment of such buildings or cultural heritage.

What survive, they are RUINS and they became RUINS because of you turks. Tourism tourism, yes folks, come and see the work of the turks, destroyers of civilization who can transform cultural works of art into ruins and piles of rubble. In every single brochure on tourism in turkey we see the proof and evidence of the turk's destructive nature. There is a saying, "Grass never grows where the turkish hoof has trod." Now why do you think there would be such a saying?

YOu rblood boils because of you are agitated continously by your leaders.

Agitated by our leaders. LOL! Sorry, but we are all independant thinking people.

Face the reality, ARatat is in Turkey. Whatever you do cant change this fact. This is part of Turkish territory. There are better ways to handle this issue, decrease the tensions by not claiming land from Turkey, normalize your approach, then you'll see things will be a lot easier.

Reality in turkeyvision. If you think there are better ways to handle the issue and want to decreae tension, then it's up to you do so, not us. There will be land claims and there's no two ways about it. Normailize? By who'se standards, turks? What would you turks do if we one day took Mt Ararat back? Would you face reality or would you cry like your whiny xxxxx azerbaboon cousins about how Mt Ararat is is part of turkish territory and your immaginary "territorial integrity"?

Why not Armenian citizen could visit Ani or Ararat daily without a visa?
Look at how tensions decreased between Turkey and Greece people can easily come and go etc. This could very well happen.

Can this really happen? Can I really visit the village or town where my great grandparents house is located and see the happy turks living in it without a visa? Can I really? You're too kind!

Well I'm not Greek and I'm not interested in supporting turkey's tourism industry for being so graciously allowed to "visit" what rightfully belongs to me. Why don't you go visit mongolia and stay there!

[TurQ]

Ok then think twice the time you have thought until now.
You are detached from reality

They are playing you by using land claims. Just be sensible, in this world Turkey and Armenia are the only 2 countries. There are lots of things going on in the world, and believe me my friend if you(or as nation Armenians) make you obsessed about the land claims believe me you'll be one way or another destroy yourself.

If you lock yourself for land claims, believe it'll be the Armenians to lose.
My friend land issue is fueled by those leaders of yours in order not to solve the problem, believe me. they know very well how TUrkey is sesitive on territorial issues, they push this so that Armenia and Turkey could never come close each other, and they can play their leadership games.

I have though about these things hundreds of times, so I don't need to think twice. Everything I wrote can be justified on a legal basis and there are precedents to prove it. Anyway, who do you think you are, Tulay Tugcu?



What survive, they are RUINS and they became RUINS because of you turks. Tourism tourism, yes folks, come and see the work of the turks, destroyers of civilization who can transform cultural works of art into ruins and piles of rubble. In every single brochure on tourism in turkey we see the proof and evidence of the turk's destructive nature. There is a saying, "Grass never grows where the turkish hoof has trod." Now why do you think there would be such a saying?



Agitated by our leaders. LOL! Sorry, but we are all independant thinking people.



Reality in turkeyvision. If you think there are better ways to handle the issue and want to decreae tension, then it's up to you do so, not us. There will be land claims and there's no two ways about it. Normailize? By who'se standards, turks? What would you turks do if we one day took Mt Ararat back? Would you face reality or would you cry like your whiny xxxxx azerbaboon cousins about how Mt Ararat is is part of turkish territory and your immaginary "territorial integrity"?



Can this really happen? Can I really visit the village or town where my great grandparents house is located and see the happy turks living in it without a visa? Can I really? You're too kind!

Well I'm not Greek and I'm not interested in supporting turkey's tourism industry for being so graciously allowed to "visit" what rightfully belongs to me. Why don't you go visit mongolia and stay there!

[TurQ]

Varouj
Nobody gonna boycott Turkey just because you sy so.
I know lots of Armenian busineeses that sell Turkish goods. First go to those Armenian stores and try to *convice* them first, if you can ever.

You turks are continually on a daily basis committing cultural genocide, trying to remove all traces of the Armenian civilization you eliminated.



In your dreams.



And people thought the Soviet Union would go on forever. And every empire that fell thought it would last forever.




Believe me, my approach is NORMAL. See things a lot easier? I will translate that double talk. What you mean is you believe we will see things YOUR way. It will NEVER happen.




Maybe because only people with a few screws loose would pay YOU money to see what rightfully belongs to them and thusly put money into your denialist machine and your military.

BOYCOTT turkey, BOYCOTT ALL turkish PRODUCTS.

[imported_DHolyGhost]

if you let us massacre, rape, slave, torture 1.5 million + interest Turks of our choice, torch, ransack, demolish steal their homes, properties and Mosks, I will ask to decapitate few thousands too. then get our lands back and some of your lands and keep it for about 100 years, we *might forget about it.

*who knows?

[TurQ]

Phantom you dont need to be a law expert to understand this.
It is simple, CUP's governement of Ottoman state and republic of Turkey are very very very I mean very different establishments, as far as the international law concerned. And in reality what has happened in 1915(not the period 1915 to 19123 as Armenians would always say) can not be attributed (legally) to Turkey.

If Armenian groups were so confident about this legal thing, they would have long applied to Hague or other UN related courts to get raparations from Turkey. I thin you have to ask this queston to yourself why this did not happen, but instead they pursue a stragety have parliments to take a decicion on 1915(agan look no reperations even mentioned in those parliment decisions as far as I know).

Turkey is naturally taking place first of all it does not fully agree of the portrayal of those events, this is the first reason but the real reason, which Armenians dont see is that this issue is extremely politiczed, and Turkey naturally sees this as a political agression and naturally taking a counter stance. This resembles the Talat's case, he and other Ittihadists were traitors and they were banned from entereing TUrkey, but when the Armenians killed him, Turkey took its position.

Germany was Germany Nazi or not, they just changed their governments, Ittihadists Ottoman state and Turkey are two very very very different states, and you can never ever be able to connect legally these two(which I have told you before even during CUP government, the army, Sultan and CUP were 3 different parties governing wholse state, a hidden coalition can be said about the situation, if it werent the case CUP leaders wouldnt escape after the war).

But as I said you can and we can trace those individuals who have benefited from Armenians, I would personally be very happy for that, and I would like to say that I feel extremely uneasy for those people who took advantage of others. Believe me lots of TUrks would be happily support such an action, but the other option believe is fruitless first legally second, it'll further antagonize Turkey.

One last comment, Turkey as a country suffered a lot, its population suffered
a lot and TUrkey never been paid for those sufferings, instead as the losing party in the war Ottomans fined and the money that Ottomans owed paid by TUrkey, now asking additional money from Turkey will just make it more angry.

TurQ, how can you be so confident about your "legal" position? If you are correct, then how is it that Germany was made to pay for the evil done by the Nazis? Today's Germany has nothing to do with the Nazis, and Germans suffered under the nationalistic policies of the Nazis too, right? And those Nazis were punished and are hated in Germany today aren't they?

The reality is that your arguments really have no legal weight. Furthermore, it is obvious that the Turkish republic is not too confident about your arguments. Otherwise, it would not be so afraid of accepting that what happened was a Genocide? Heck, if there aren't going to be any consequences, why spend so much time, money and effort lying about it and trying to cover it up?

I think the more logical analysis, albeit simplified here, goes like this: there was a Genocide carried out by the Ottoman govt.; neither the Ottoman govt. nor its successor ever paid for this crime; the successor has spent the last 90 years benefiting from the crime, lying about it and trying to cover it up; the successor is responsible for righting this wrong and paying for the crime from which it has been a direct beneficiary.