and 10 points goes to .. Armenia.

[HayerMiacek]

Turkey hosts Hamas; Israel furious



Senior Hamas members embark on first official visit to non-Arab country; Turkey says it will make it clear to Hamas it must renounce terror, recognize Israel
Ronny Sofer


Growing legitimacy: A Hamas delegation headed by group leader Khaled Mashaal arrived in Turkey Thursday in order to meet with official Turkish representatives.


The visit marks the first one by Hamas to a non-Arab country since the group won the Palestinian elections at the end of January. Meanwhile, an official invitation to visit Russia was received at Hamas' Gaza office.


Turkish government sources said the invitation to Hamas came from the ruling Islamic party in the country and not from the Foreign Ministry.
At this time it is unclear whether Hamas members will meet with Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan during the visit.


Israeli officials are concerned the Turkey visit will mark yet another setback in the crumbling of the international coalition against Hamas, a trend that started after Russia invited the group for a visit last week - a move supported by France.


Livni speaks with Turkish counterpart


Turkish clarifications stressing the government intends to make it clear Hamas must renounce terrorism and recognize Israel have not improved the mood in Israel.


Turkish Foreign Minister Abdullah Gul called his Israeli counterpart Tzipi Livni Wednesday and briefed her on the upcoming meeting with Hamas. Livni expressed Israel's objection to meetings with a terror group, but Gul assured her Turkey would send Hamas a clear message.


PM Erdogan recently said the international community must be prepared to cooperate with Hamas because the Palestinian people voted the group into office in an honest and democratic manner. At the same time, Turkey's position is that Hamas must renounce the path of violence, he said.


Israel and Turkey maintain a close alliance that includes, among other things, extensive military cooperation. However, in recent years Ankara made sure to maintain warm ties with the Palestinian authority as well.

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3217174,00.html

[HayerMiacek]

The Rise of Anti-Semitism In Turkey
By Jack Manuelian

When the Donmeh sect and Zionists created the modern state of Israel they also made plans for the creation of an anti-Israel "force" in the Middle East that can be used to destroy their own experiment of modern Israel. Hence, The core Zionists would be both the creators and the destroyers of the state of Israel.

Nowadays, inner Zionists are activating the "self-destruction" mechanism of modern Israel; their plan is to bring a Turkish muslim dictator as a ruler of Turkey, a Muslim Hitler-like destroyer, a Turkish Bin Laden who would unite the various factions in Turkey and lead them to the old glory they once knew.

Presently the invisible rulers of Turkey are not real Turks but rather infiltrated secular "Turks" who are the secret followers of the anti-Mohammad and anti-Christ prophet Zabbatai Zevi, who was the founder of the Donmeh sect and of the Zabbataean movement.

In a country like Turkey where if you are a pro-Armenian Genocide activist you can be thrown in jail, and if Turkish academics plan to hold a conference in order to debate the Armenian Genocide, like they just recently tried to do in Istanbul, they are not allowed to; however, books such as Mein Kampf, The Protocols of the Elders of Zion, and The International Jew are freely displayed and sold in kiosk stands all over Turkey. Those books are not found for sale in the bookstores of USA and Europe and someone has to look for them in underground outlets, yet in Turkey those anti-Israeli books are best-sellers and can be obtained from anywhere and at cheap prices. Not only this, but newspapers in Turkey have the total unrestricted freedom to publish any kind of anti-Semitic, anti-Jewish, and anti-Israeli articles and commentaries. A fact that made Schily, the German Interior Minister, say this past May during a press conference: "If the Turkish government does not have the necessary [antisemitism] laws, they should create them." Schily did not say if this was one of the prerequisite for Turkey's admittance into EU.

All this in a country like Turkey that has very close military and economic relations with Israel and considers Israel to be its ally in the Middle East. However, according to Zionist plans, the "force" that would be able to destroy Israel has to rise now and be ready to destroy their "house-of-cards" in Palestine when the time is right (when the fullness of time is come), which is sometime in the next ten or fifteen years when World War III is ignited in the Middle East. Israel was created just after WW II for the purpose of another great war, that of WW III; when it starts then Israel, having accomplished its mission, can be disposed of like an old rag, this according to their plans-which may come to pass or may not.

The invisible secular rulers of modern Turkey know perfectly well that the Genocide of the Armenians was real, but they are doing everything in their power to hide, deny and suppress that fact. Why? because they are afraid that their cover would blow up and they are going to be discovered as belonging to the ones who planned and organized that Genocide.

A Turkish nationalist columnist, Selcuk Duzgun, recently wrote: "Wherever we turn we see impure, false converts. Whichever stone you turn over [in Turkey], there is a 'Jew' under it." Needless to say, a second holocaust of the Jews is on the horizon; those who executed so well the Armenian Genocide are capable of repeating the same--this time with the Jews as their victims. The Turks did not disappoint the planners and organizers of the Armenian Genocide, neither they will with the second holocaust of the Jews.

A secular liberal Turkish columnist, Sakir Suter, wrote in June 24, 2004 concerning the Turkish Jews: "They have an obligation to show us that they are distanced from the terror [he means the war with the Kurds] that resulted in the death of thousands in Turkey... and that the Jews are not 'plotting' against us together with the [Kurdish] elements in northern Iraq." First it was the false accusation that the Armenians were collaborating with the Russians during WW 1, and now the same accusation is being directed to the Jews as collaborators with the Kurds against Turkey. It is the same old Genocide plan that is being revamped; there is nothing new under the sun. In the same article, Sakir writes directing his speech to Jews of Israel: "We, on our part, are offering one last chance before officially and openly declaring that the Jews are our 'enemy.' ... we have reached such a juncture that... millions in Turkey are all too eager to pour out to the streets and cry out: Death to Zionism!"

This antisemitism is becoming a serious matter in Turkey; a mass movement like 1930s Germany. In an interview published in April 4, 2005, in Turkish newspaper Vatan, Rusen Cakie asks Barry Jacobs, the American Jewish Committee's director of Strategic Studies in the Office of Government and International Affairs, "Do you think anti-Americanism and anti-Semitism are at serious levels [in Turkey]?" Jacob's answer in part: "Yes, it's very grave. In fact, this is due to the recent rise in nationalism in Turkey. We see this nationalism in the Turkish military which has a very deeply rooted relationship with the American military, in the [Turkish] government and all the [Turkish] political parties."

As to the assessment of the status of the Turkish-American relations; Jacob's answer: "The relations are going through a difficult period. It would be exaggerated to say that this is a crisis, but in the past seven or eight months there have been serious problems. The American administration is disturbed by the increase in anti-American, anti-Western, anti-Israel, and anti-Semitic [manifestations] in Turkey, especially in the media."

The Turkish Prof. Dr. Ihsan Dagi has said in an interview published on February 28, 2005, in Turkish daily Radikal that "a new alliance is being created" in Turkey, and there is "a search for a new national unity in Turkey." The Professor explains: "It is a new and broad alliance against the Jews and the Donme, who are [said to] secretly plotting not only in the world but also in Turkey, who control Turkey and who need to be stopped...In this alliance you have groups from AKP (the current ruling part), the Left, Kemalists, the Republican People's Party (the current opposition party), Alevi, a whole world of people." from nationalistic-conservative and political Islam circles to the leftist and secular circles. Nationalism and radical Islam in Turkey have found a common ground in anti-Semitism.

Abdurrahim Karakoç, a columnist at the Islamic newspaper Vakit wrote in Aug. 17, 2004: "It was Hitler yesterday, and it is Osama bin Laden today." And may I add it is a Turkish Ben Laden tomorrow ruling over Turkey. It is clear now that this coming October there is not going to be any EU accession talks with Turkey until the present constitutional crisis is somehow solved. We read in a June 4, 2005 article in Economist: "There are, indeed, disturbing signs that Mr Erdogan may be pandering to a recent upsurge in nationalism that is being fanned both by anti-Turkish sentiment in Europe and by the country's hawkish generals, whose power may be eroded by EU reforms."

Turkey eventually will move away from Europe toward nationalism and aspire to become a great power again with a close solidarity with other muslim nations. She will choose the path of Anti-Zionism and advocate the destruction of Israel, this attitude or option alone will guarantee her a leading role in the Islamic world, specially among the Arab states and those of Central Asia: Their original homeland.

[Hovik]

And what does that indicate? There are other best sellers in Turkey, including Orhan Pamuk's books..

Pamuks books get boycotted and burned by nationalist ignorant pigs...

Are Turks supposed to be admirers of Hitler who promote German race supremacy and who thought Turks to be inferior nation?

I wouldn't say they think Germans are superior. I think they are in love with the theory of a superior race, and Hitlers execution of his ideas. I think they think of it in a Turkish (Turanic) context with Hitlers Nazi Germany as a template.

Why don't you tell us what it means when Mein Kampf becomes a bestseller in Turkey?

[imported_Hellektor]

Turkish Fantasy

Greece should stop its claims in Agean sea. Thats one stupidity they had started and now they cant stop it eventhough they know that they can not ever have the 12 mile. They'll keep on agitating their nation that Turkey is violating their air space. They know we'll never ever agree on 12 mile thing, why are they trying to force it? When they stop this childish claims, you'll see Turkish planes would not get closer more than 12 miles, since Greece insists we have to show that we dont agree with them.

These brain-damaged parrots really believe Greek Anatolia is theirs
I'll eat my head!!!

Their only stupidity was that they weakened Armenian Bagratunis in the 11th century and that treacherous Andronicus Ducas, who in the middle of battle, retreated to Constantinople to get a higher political position for himself allowed your grandpaws to "win" the battle of Manazkert.
The Turkish cancer would not have infected us for the last thousand years and we would have our beautiful and highly advanced, better than Switzerland Armenia. Turk-free and prosperous... Alas and alack...

It's Andronicus Ducas' statue that you barbarians must have cast in pure gold (by Armenian sculptors of course), not that disgusting, genocidal bandit Mustafa Hammal Cacaturk.

Eurovision itself is a retarded contest.
The behaviour of south Cypriots just show what they are.
The Turkish 10 points to Armenia shows that Turks dont have prejuidice towards Armenians at least the way the Greek cypriots present their prejuidice towards us. Turks voted to Armenian contestant just becuase they loved the music and they have seen common sounds and traces of common heritage in their music.

These brain-damaged parrots really believe Greek Cyprus is theirs
I'll eat my head!!!

"South Cypriots"
"Southern Azerbaijan"
"Northern Azerbaijan"
"Eastern Anatolia"

These brain-damaged parrots are living in a fantasy world where history can be falsified and geography can be distorted to suit their sick dreams.

Diagnosis of the Psychosis: Symptom II They Project:
It's the "behaviour of" Turkey NOT allowing the Cypriot singer enter Turkey for promotion. Don't bother giving one of your twisted "explanations".

If "Turks dont have prejuidice towards Armenians" then why are they wiping Armenian territory of its Armenian heritage? They even change the names of flora and fauna.

900+ common heritage, living in same society. Producing common culture etc.

We are always mistaken if we try to understand the nationailty and ethnicity perception of those times with 20th century's perception of ethnic identity.
Armenians and Turks lived togather and their culture and music were developed in time togather.

But people like Hellektor and his sort would always claim that Turks "stole" from Armenians in order NOT to see this common heritage.

These brain-damaged parrots really believe Armenian/Greek/Assyrian culture is theirs
I'll eat my head!!!

Միք խառնել մեզ ձեր արջի ցեղերին says the poet...

You are MAKING me paste this:

This is what you were before raping and stealing our women and children for centuries:
read the following by Grigor Aknertsi, a 13th century historian who describes your grandpaws when he saw them for the first time:

"Let us say some more about what these first Tatars resembled. The first who came against our country were not like people. They were awful to see and impossible to describe. They had large heads, like a buffalo, narrow eyes like a chick, short noses like a cat, protruding chins like a dog, narrow waists like an ant, and short legs like a pig. They are completely beardless, possessing the strength of a lion and a screeching voice like an eagle. They appear unexpectedly. Their women have attractive hats covered with a brocade shawl on top and broad faces smeared with a deadly pine medicine. They give birth like snakes, and eat like wolves. Death does not appear among them, and so they can live for three hundred years. Such were the folk who came first to the upper land. They never eat bread."

[elendil]

We don't IGNORE denialists, we BAN them. Keep that in mind. If you want to participate in a forum that allows denialism, try finding one... aint gonna happen here...

With all due respect banning is not what I object. But hearing about my people giving birth to snakes, hollow threats about my country's land is what I object.

[TurQ]

Orhan Pamuk's book was only banned in a tiny town in Isparta(or Denizli?) thats the only incident. There's certainly no popular boycott or ban to his books.

Thats certainly not the case HOvik. It'is just artificial to draw such conclusions that Hitlers book is sold therefore Turkish people beleives in racial superiority. Even GreyWolves mainstream openly opposes such version of nationalism. It is a simple easy research for a social scientist to figure out whether an average Turk believes in racial superiority or not.
I understand and observe that there's much propoganda going on among Armenians using Hitler's book.


Anyways, there are several aspects for this.
First is the reading habit and number of regular book readers in Turkey.
Unfortunetly numbers are so low. I cant give you exact numbers but if an author sells a book around 100,000 this is
a very very very good number, but compared to 70million it is too low. May be the number of daily newspapers sold could also give
an idea about the reading habit, it is just around 4 million at most(if not 3 million).

So being a "Best Seller" in TUrkey is not like being a best seller in Germany or UK or US. And one other important detail
that's ignored is that Hitler is not all-time Best seller. If today a Nazi or an extreme nationalist who would author a book about racial supremacy
and it becomes a best seller, there might really be point about your statement that "Turks believe in racial supremacy", but we are
talking about a book that was written 70 something years back, and now becomes a best seller just for a certain particular date.
Have you ever wondered how's it selling right now?? If there is the idea of racial supremacy, it does not just flourish and vanish in just 1 year.


The second is why people actually bought the book and read it. My understanding is that it is more like the popular culture about
how to be effective, influensive upon others, i.e. personal improvement thru controlling power or in simple words power hunger.
And I also believe that there'is a curiosity to understand an historical figure which we Turks dont know much about. We were not part of
World war-II and during the war we always tried our best to stay away out of it, and average person does not know much about the
figure who actually started world war-II, so naturally people might wanted to learn about him.

You cant just say HItler is sold so therefore the readers (which make up a very small portion of the society) and the Turkish society is
believing in racial supremacy. It is very simple, as I said, to udnerstand the level of admiration to Hitler's ideals or believing in
racial supremacy. YOu would(any social scientist wo believes in the topic)design a survey and collect data from various walks of Turkish society
and see the results. Yes people would say "We are great nation", but overwhelming majority wouldnt say "we are the supreme nation and all others are
inferior". You probably (naturally) wont believe in what I am saying, but as I said Armenian Scholars and activists shouldnt miss this chance(if thats really the case or they really believe in it) of proving that actually Turkish society believes in racial supremacy.


I would also be interested in comparing Armenian citizens, Armenian diasporans and Turkish citizens in the sense of degree of nationalism, degree of hatred towards
each other.

Pamuks books get boycotted and burned by nationalist ignorant pigs...




I wouldn't say they think Germans are superior. I think they are in love with the theory of a superior race, and Hitlers execution of his ideas. I think they think of it in a Turkish (Turanic) context with Hitlers Nazi Germany as a template.

Why don't you tell us what it means when Mein Kampf becomes a bestseller in Turkey?

[kerkuk_kurdista]

I would also be interested in comparing Armenian citizens, Armenian diasporans and Turkish citizens in the sense of degree of nationalism, degree of hatred towards
each other.

Very very interested, but keep in mind that for certain peoples it can be explained. And for some it's just from nature.



By the way TurQ, have you heard that Turkey is now taking steps. They have extra guarded prisons for Kurds not to speak Kurdish in prisons with eachother, even in prisons we aren't allowed to speak our own language. I think even Nazi's would feel sorry for something like that.

FREE THE OPRESSED!!

[Hovik]

TurQ, why don't you throw your Azeri cousins in the study... I'm sure they'll take a landslide first place

[HayerMiacek]

TurQ, why don't you throw your Azeri cousins in the study... I'm sure they'll take a landslide first place

no doubt lol, when an Azeri foreign ministry spokesman says, that Armenia should be wiped off the earth, same rhetoric that Iran uses against Israel

____________________________________________

"In the years since the outbreak of the Karabakh conflict in the 1980s, the Azerbaijani government and entities sponsored by it have hurled a litany of threats, hate-mongering, complaints, accusations and abuse at the Armenians of Karabakh, Armenia and Armenians around the world. Such rhetoric continued unabated despite the establishment of a cease-fire in Karabakh in May 1994 and the ongoing peace process, and has intensified in recent years. Egregious examples of this rhetoric follow:

* President Ilham Aliyev has repeatedly told his nation that Azerbaijan could launch a new war in Karabakh: "At any moment we must be able to liberate our territories by military means. To achieve this we have everything." Aliyev predicts that Azerbaijan will soon become an economically strong state, while its military "superiority" will increase further. "Under these circumstances we cannot react positively to those calling us to compromise." (Source: Zerkalo 7/23/04) Azerbaijan has been increasing its military spending to more than $217 million (Source: IISS Military Balance) and buying more tanks, artillery and aircraft (Source: UN Directory of Conventional Arms). Aliyev warned that unless Armenians capitulate "we will all smash the heads of the Armenians." (Source: Turan via BBC Monitoring 10/27/00)
* Azerbaijani Defense Minister Gen. Safar Abiyev says that occasional violations of the 1994 cease-fire are "natural" since Azerbaijan is still "at war." (Source: Sarg via BBC Monitoring 8/14/03) Abiyev makes claims on Armenia's territory: "Armenia must always remember that what Azerbaijan accepted yesterday will not be accepted today and tomorrow. Azerbaijan will not want to have a separated state - meaning Nakhichevan, cut from the mainland Azerbaijan. This issue will be raised tomorrow." (Source: Ekho 5/16/03). Asked if the Azeri army is ready "to go to Yerevan," Abiyev
answers: "We can go even farther." (Source: ANS via BBC Monitoring 3/22/02) Abiyev claims that "The Armenian state was created on the occupied Azeri lands with the area of 29,000 square kilometers." (Source: ANS.az 12/7/01)
* The Azerbaijani Defense Ministry spokesman Col. Ramiz Melikov: "In the next 25-30 years there will be no Armenian state in the South Caucasus. This nation has been a nuisance for its neighbors and has no right to live in this region. Present-day Armenia was built on historical Azerbaijani lands. I believe that in 25 to 30 years these territories will once again come under Azerbaijan's jurisdiction." (Source: Zerkalo 8/4/04) Following the brutal murder of an Armenian student of NATO English language courses in Hungary last February, Melikov qualified the confessed murderer Ramil Safarov as a "talented and disciplined officer." Melikov added that, "as an Azeri, I understand and support Safarov's actions." Melikov did not exclude similar attacks on Armenians in the future. (Source: Regnum 2/25/04)
* Azerbaijan's Ambassador to the Council of Europe Agshin Mekhtiyev warned of more attacks on individual Armenians, adding that he "would not advise Armenians to sleep easy in their beds." (Source: Zerkalo 2/24/04) Parliament member and former Heydar Aliyev bodyguard Siyavush Novruzov told Terry Davis, envoy of the Parliamentary Assembly of the Council of Europe, that "similar incidents" could occur in PACE as well, unless the Karabakh conflict is settled in Baku's favor. (Source: Ekho 2/27/04) Azerbaijan's Human Rights Ombudsman Elmira Suleimanova said that Safarov should serve as "an example for Azerbaijani youth." (Source: Zerkalo 2/28/04)
* The Azerbaijani Ministry of National Security (MNS) has publicly and, according to media reports, clandestinely sponsored rhetoric and activities directed against Karabakh peace efforts. In 2004, this successor to the Soviet-era KGB held a public competition for the "best" films and books targeting Armenians, with Minister Namik Abbasov giving financial awards of up to $2,000 to the winners. (Source: Azertag.com 3/26/04) Azeri officials have condemned Track II peace-building contacts with Armenians, and groups linked to MNS have attacked Azeri peace activists. (Sources: ANS via BBC Monitoring 11/3/01, 4/16/02; 525ci Gazet 5/11/02; Zerkalo via BBC Monitoring 4/30/03; IWPR Caucasus Report 5/1/03)

* Heydar Aliyev's National Security Advisor Vafa Gulizade demanded that "Armenians should be driven out of Azerbaijan forever." Unless Azerbaijan fights and drives all Armenians out, Gulizade believes that "Armenians would [eventually] buy up real estate in Baku... They will try to take Azerbaijan into their hands in this way." (Source: Azadlyq via BBC Monitoring 10/10/01) "The entire Armenian population of Nagornyy Karabakh should be moved from there...This problem will not be resolved as long as Armenians are in Nagornyy Karabakh." (Source: Yeni Azerbaycan via BBC Monitoring 11/14/01) "If they want autonomy on our land, let us have autonomy in Zangazur and Goyca [southern and eastern Armenia] which will enable Azerbaijan to reach Turkey by land." (Source: ANS via BBC Monitoring 4/6/02)

* The Azerbaijani Parliament member from ruling Yeni Azerbaycan Party Asia
Manafova:
"Our people must repay the debt it owes to [the late President] Heydar Aliyev and free Karabakh from Armenian occupiers. To achieve this goal we are ready to follow the example of Chechen patriots and undertake acts of suicide bombing." Manafova called on other Parliament members to also become suicide bombers. (Source: Regnum.ru 12/15/03) The pro-government Azerbaijan News Service (ANS) has been the most active Azeri TV channel opposing any contacts with Armenians and arguing for war, suggesting, among other things, to recruit suicide bombers from among thousands of orphaned and homeless children in Azerbaijan. (Source: ANS via BBC Monitoring 10/13/02).

[HayerMiacek]

and lets not forget Ramil Safarov, who cowardly killed the Armenian leutenant duing his sleep was made the Man of the Year in Azerbaijan