Let's rewind the movie

[Steph]

I will not defend Bell but as far as I can see this is not an Armenian masturbation site. Whats wrong with painting bad Armenians in a bad light?

*hitite, I always suspected your typing was one-handed, now it's confirmed.
Perhaps you were originally misdirected to this site by your search engine?

There's absolutely nothing wrong in painting bad Armenians in a bad light. Just as bad turks can be painted in bad light. But let's not colour everyone the same as some posts attempt to do.

[Steph]

and now lets see what armenins doing?

diaspora armenians are doing their best to harm turkey, by many methods. even terrorizm has been tried for many years by asala terrorists, killing 50 or more turkish diplomats. they try to harm turkeys turizm sector. they try to turkey be denied by eu, they try to make it crime the denial of genocide in every country of the world, they support kurdish rebells in turkey etc.
Are we talking about what Armenians are doing now or decades ago?
and individually when they meet a turk , great majority act very bad and insult them.

Is this your personal experience or are you simply repeating urban myths? I think you've read here instances from just a small selection who have not only met turks with courtesy but also forged friendships with them.

armenian state also cant solve karabağ ıssue, demands lands from turkey.

The Artsakh issue is really solved, we must now be patient and allow azer bad,jan to lick it's wounds and accept reality. The issue of land reparation from turkey to Armenia is the backbone of the nationalist/kemalist programme to control the turkish populace and feed the racism/nationalism in turkey and feed this sense of isolation, which even you Lal show definite signs of feeling.

[1.5 million]

Well said steph...previous few posts...last two in particular.

[hitite]

*hitite, I always suspected your typing was one-handed, now it's confirmed.
Perhaps you were originally misdirected to this site by your search engine?

There's absolutely nothing wrong in painting bad Armenians in a bad light. Just as bad turks can be painted in bad light. But let's not colour everyone the same as some posts attempt to do.

Steph, I dont know if its just me in a bad mood lately or if I really do seem to see that some of the people I have come to repect on this forum actually are doing what you are accusing me of doing right now.

I will not have time to search the forum but I remember several posts where it was implied or outright clearly stated that the Armenians of Istanbul which have a respectively "mellow" attitude towards official Genocide Recognition compared to that of the diaspora are not seen as quite the "patriotic" Armenian.

In another thread I quote Zane: "From what I hear from Ter-Petrossian, he seems to be willing to trade the lives of 1.5 million murdered Armenians in exchange for favorable trading conditions (with Turkey)." and he goes on to state that he finds this understandable because Armenia needs it. However his initial disgust in any type of close relationship with Turkey prior to a Turkish recognition of the Armenian Genocide is quite revealing in how, IMO, many (not all) diaspora Armenians see how their relatives on this side of the world "should" be pursuing their "cause".

Now when somebody like Bell comes around and hints at this reality I really do have trouble understanding how he is "coloring all" Armenians in a bad light. I am pretty sure you do not think "all" Armenians are only the ones that live in the US.

[hitite]

Is this your personal experience or are you simply repeating urban myths? I think you've read here instances from just a small selection who have not only met turks with courtesy but also forged friendships with them.

The Artsakh issue is really solved, we must now be patient and allow azer bad,jan to lick it's wounds and accept reality. The issue of land reparation from turkey to Armenia is the backbone of the nationalist/kemalist programme to control the turkish populace and feed the racism/nationalism in turkey and feed this sense of isolation, which even you Lal show definite signs of feeling.

.... see what I mean. Lal could probably be one of the most liberal and open minded Turks you can get with regards to the A.G. issue but the moment she starts sharing her opinions on the "Bad Armenian" you get interestingly defensive.

Ok I am not saying that Lal's analysis is accurate; there are many errors there but her main point was that both sides have their bad sides and they should find a way to get together and overcome these obstacles so the two people can find a way to live together.

But how do you react to that: Everybody applauded Lal's thought provoking post #10 because it made Turkey look like a cess pit. It was found to be very accurate. Now that she has said that an Armenian can be bad she has started to show signs of being a nationalist Turk or rather a Turk who has taken her share of a certain "sense of isolation". In other words you are politely calling her another freakin' brainwashed Turk....

I am pretty sure most people here would react to a wish of getting together and solving the problem with a very basic "you will not get that wish until your state continues to deny the A. Genocide"... does that ring a "bell"?

I think that this all stems from the fact that Armenians in this geography clearly have different needs when compared to the diaspora. The ones in Turkey and Armenia proper "need" to live with Turks and Turks with them. That is why they may not be giving A.G. recognition as much priority as the diaspora. The Diaspora on the other hand does not need to find a way to live in some sort of harmony with the Turk because they dont have to; so they have the luxury of building a mountain of prerequisites before the evil Turk can step in and say hi.

I really do hope some of you are able to see this attitude around here.

[Steph]

I think that this all stems from the fact that Armenians in this geography clearly have different needs when compared to the diaspora. The ones in Turkey and Armenia proper "need" to live with Turks and Turks with them. That is why they may not be giving A.G. recognition as much priority as the diaspora. The Diaspora on the other hand does not need to find a way to live in some sort of harmony with the Turk because they dont have to; so they have the luxury of building a mountain of prerequisites before the evil Turk can step in and say hi.

I really do hope some of you are able to see this attitude around here.

The difference in emphasis on Genocide Recognition between the Diaspora and
RA is that in Armenia most people have a big enough struggle to make it through their lives, because of many factors influencing conditions in Armenia, not least of which is turkey's blockade!
If life in Armenia was a little easier, trust me hittite, the noise for recognition would deafen you!

[Steph]

In other words you are politely calling her another freakin' brainwashed Turk....

I'm not calling Lal anything. BUT her/his posts are very confusing and I'm not sure as to the sincerity of the content. Are these posts simply to state denialist propoganda couched in a "niaive" narrative? I don't know and will reserve judgement until more are posted.

[hitite]

The difference in emphasis on Genocide Recognition between the Diaspora and
RA is that in Armenia most people have a big enough struggle to make it through their lives, because of many factors influencing conditions in Armenia, not least of which is turkey's blockade!
If life in Armenia was a little easier, trust me hittite, the noise for recognition would deafen you!

Its not the difference in emphasis, its the reason for the difference. Turks and Armenians definately do have more survival issues for sure, Armenians in Armenia even more so. This is one of the reasons they "need" eachother. I did not say anything different. I guess you just find the idea of an Armenian "needing" a Turk too much at odds with the image of the "all superior" Armenian that exists in your fantasy world.

But how cleverly you make it seem as if I said that Armenians in Armenia do not care much about the Genocide. Clearly you are not much different from the herd. You too have become a Turk

[hitite]

I'm not calling Lal anything. BUT her/his posts are very confusing and I'm not sure as to the sincerity of the content. Are these posts simply to state denialist propoganda couched in a "niaive" narrative? I don't know and will reserve judgement until more are posted.

No need to be confused. Its just years and generations of brainwashing thats telling you to see everything in black and white rendering you unable to see any grey (other than a grey-wolf) when a Turk is concerned.

[lal]

I'm not calling Lal anything. BUT her/his posts are very confusing and I'm not sure as to the sincerity of the content. Are these posts simply to state denialist propoganda couched in a "niaive" narrative? I don't know and will reserve judgement until more are posted.

what is confusing about my posts?
how can ı make a denial propaganda ,after stating so clearly that turkey must admit its past crimes against armenians and accept this to be called a genocide no matter what the emerging risks of it or no matter armenians or armenias attititude about turks or azeris.

because ,only then my personal rights about every subject in this country can improve and ı can be able to have a more civilised,better ,safer and richer life.can you understand what ı mean?

when ı wrote ,ı feel like not belonging to any nation or religon, ı was serious. ı want to be a world person without religon,living and working in any place.

ı hate islam, but this dont mean that ı love christianity or anything else.
ı hate Turkeys extremely stubborn,militarist, nationalist and conservative and also islamist line , but this dont mean that ı like americas imperialist ,evangelistic, evil politics,
ı hate the denial of armenian genocide, but this dont mean that ı aprove extreme hostile attitude of diaspora armenians in general against turkey or not very clever line of republic of armenian state.

you see,this is not like being a fan of real madrid. all parts have a lots of wrongs ,though the major wrong is turks ,ı accept.

but if this problem is wanted to be solved than both sides must work on it.you come close to me,ı come closer to you. you give something ,ı give you something. this is the rule of nature.

if you insist on everything you want,than you get nothing.this is what both sides are doing today.

ı am no expert in anything. ı might well be wrong in everything. ı m only a simple turk. my only difference from the other people is that ı dont easly buy what state imposes on me or what crowds follow. so simple.

Lal