Hello I am new here

[ardakilic]

ardakilic -

Welcome to the forum. Another young person to give us hope. I look foreward to your contributions here. BTW you do your people proud and I imagine that Armenians would be glad to call you friend.

Thanks a lot, 1.5 million.

A news from Istanbul: My group (Young Mathematicians of Great East) will start a signature campaign (especially in universities) about "The Solution". Here is the summary of the text (i tried to translate from Turkish):

We, who have signatures below, demand from the parliament of Turkey

1. Immediately open the boundary ports between Armenia and Turkey pre-conditionless

2. Make easy who want to travel from Turkey to Armenia and Armenia to Turkey

3. Immediately start the relationship between two states

4. Improve economical, educational, cultural relations (Student exchange programs etc)

5. The most important: Pass an official decree of Turkish Republic that
"Turkish government feels extremely sorry for the people who were killed, exiled, raped, stolen, confiscated and exposed to other inhuman acts especially by Young Turks in the year 1915"

6. Build a monument on the borderline between Armenia and Turkey, one side is in Turkish and other is in Armenian that this decree takes place.

7. Stop in every media every kind of provocation that makes the hate bigger

8. Establish in proper universities "Armenian History", "Armenian Language and Literature", "Armenian Culture" and similar departments

... it continues in detail such kind of items. Maybe it helps.

[SoSarkissian]

Welcome ardakilic,

All nationalities are welcomed to stand next to us in our struggle of having the worst crime against human mankind the world had ever known getting recognized.

[imported_Armine]

Welcome Ardakilic I hope you will enjoy your stay here.

I was born as well in Istanbul but when I was 4 years old my parents moved to the Netherlands. I have a Dutch mother and an Armenian Father. My father and his mothers side of the fimily come originally from Istanbul(Constantinople) as well.

I was born in Sisli (Nistantasi) you probably know this eare of Istanbul. Last time I been to Istanbul was to years ago we went by car from the Netherlands. I love Istanbul I think it is a great city cultural and historical.
Do you still live in Bakirkoy?

Do you notice anything about the people nowadays is the atmosphere very tense, especially after the killing of Hrant Dink.

[ardakilic]

Welcome Ardakilic I hope you will enjoy your stay here.

I was born as well in Istanbul but when I was 4 years old my parents moved to the Netherlands. I have a Dutch mother and an Armenian Father. My father and his mothers side of the fimily come originally from Istanbul(Constantinople) as well.

I was born in Sisli (Nistantasi) you probably know this eare of Istanbul. Last time I been to Istanbul was to years ago we went by car from the Netherlands. I love Istanbul I think it is a great city cultural and historical.
Do you still live in Bakirkoy?

Do you notice anything about the people nowadays is the atmosphere very tense, especially after the killing of Hrant Dink.

Yes, I still live in Bakırköy. More than a month has passed after Dink was assasinated and everything seems to be normal now. Turkey's agenda changes very fast. You know, Turkey has a strange society that things happen you cannot expect. After a week from murder, i went to visit AGOS in my hand pastry to give people working in the newspaper. A huge crowded people ran there who want to help. Everybody offers different help: One distributing the newspaper, one making tea, one correcting the articles and all of them are not Armenian but Turkish feeling responsible to do something. When i go AGOS, i took a taxi and talked to driver. I was very surprised, the driver told: "This is inhuman. I've read Dink's article, there is nothing insulting. How can they kill this good-hearted man?".
However, we (Turks) are inclined to forget everything so fast. Today, most of the society expects from government to find who is back of the assasination although mainstream media (financed by big companies) try to hush up the murder.

[Joseph]

Greetings to everybody, PAREV!

I have just realized this thread and felt that i have to introduce myself. I was born in Istanbul and still lives here. I am 25 years old, mathematician in a university and writer in several magazines. I also take part in a political-ideological movement and i am one of the founders of a mathematic group, Young Mathematicians of Great East.

Unfortunately, i have only one Armenian friend(-ahbarik) now but i still remember from my chlildhood. However, i have a chance that sometimes (because of time-lack) give free mathematic lessons to Armenian children, especially to enroll them university exams. One of my teacher in university is Armenian who is one of the greatest mathematician in Turkey.

I grew up in Bak?rköy (in fact, from Makriku, an Armenian word i think), a part of Istanbul where the important part of Armenian community lives. Our house-owner was Armenian (uncle Agop) and also my grandfather's business partner was too (grandfather Nuran).

I am in this forum because i want to share the pain, take responsibility and want to try to do what i can. Unfortunately, i cannot speak Armenian but i want to visit Armenia and learn Armenian language.

If somebody Armenian who wishes to visit Istanbul, it is pleasure for me to be the host.

Hosgeldeniz ardakilic.

[phantom]

Thanks a lot, 1.5 million.

A news from Istanbul: My group (Young Mathematicians of Great East) will start a signature campaign (especially in universities) about "The Solution". Here is the summary of the text (i tried to translate from Turkish):

We, who have signatures below, demand from the parliament of Turkey

1. Immediately open the boundary ports between Armenia and Turkey pre-conditionless

2. Make easy who want to travel from Turkey to Armenia and Armenia to Turkey

3. Immediately start the relationship between two states

4. Improve economical, educational, cultural relations (Student exchange programs etc)

5. The most important: Pass an official decree of Turkish Republic that
"Turkish government feels extremely sorry for the people who were killed, exiled, raped, stolen, confiscated and exposed to other inhuman acts especially by Young Turks in the year 1915"

6. Build a monument on the borderline between Armenia and Turkey, one side is in Turkish and other is in Armenian that this decree takes place.

7. Stop in every media every kind of provocation that makes the hate bigger

8. Establish in proper universities "Armenian History", "Armenian Language and Literature", "Armenian Culture" and similar departments

... it continues in detail such kind of items. Maybe it helps.

Ardakilic, young people like you and Jade are setting a wonderful example for the rest of humanity, and for all of the rest of us Turks, Armenians, Turkish-Armenians and Armenian-Turks, etc. Welcome aboard, and I hope you enjoy the discussions.

I am also from Bakirkoy, but my family moved to the U.S. when I was 5. My father moved back to Istanbul about 9 years ago. I am going to be visiting for the first time since I left this summer. I am very excited about it. I am quite vocal about my opinions, however, and hopefully I will make it back to America without getting arrested in Istanbul.

[phantom]

@1.5 Million and @ Jade Thanks for making me feel welcome. And you are absolutely right many of us have fascinating stories.

I’m 30 years old and I work for an International Software Company (we make our own software) I work as a management assistant for the Logistics department and I also do some marketing work from time to time.

Most of my father’s family stayed in Constantinople (Istanbul). But as you say the generations which came later all moved away to Canada (Montreal, the UK and Brussels). But my father still has a cousin and a nice living in Istanbul.

My father has a few Turkish friends who acknowledge the genocide and they are embarrassed by how Turkey is dealing with this situation. But those friends are mostly from Istanbul they are intellectuals and more educated. He knows them from when he was going to board school in Switzerland (Lausanne). He went to school with people who are now journalists etc. My own experiences in Turkey is that no one really spoke about Armenians we were always being called Turks as if there was no other race. When we were little we were not allowed to say t o everyone we were Armenians. Maybe that was still because of my father being afraid or knowing things from the past that he said those things as well. But when we had friends in Turkey when we were little and they knew about us being Armenian we were not allowed to play with them anymore. I can remember when I was little (I think 6 years old and my brother was 10) that we had to escape from Turkey. We were at friends in Istanbul they had a big house. I can remember the house they had animal skins on the floor and animal heads on the wall. They liked to go haunting now and then. They also had a cabinet wit haunting guns. But we were staying there for a couple of days and one day my father said we had to pack our things and leave immediately. So we did and we went to the Netherlands. We were to little to understand but when I was older my father showed me a Turkish newspaper wit names of Armenian people who were wanted for smuggling drugs. It was the front page and there was a list of names with photographs and in that list was my father as well. That morning he was called by a friend telling him he should go away from Turkey. And that there were some people who wanted to do him harm. My father could not go back to Turkey for a couple of years and in that period his father died. He could not go to his funeral or when to him when he was dying. I never use my Turkish passport or ID card anymore. I once was hold at the airport of Istanbul waiting in line for no reason. I was 16 years old and the police took me out of the line bringing me to an office. At that time my Turkish was not that good as it is now. So I was also scared. They said they would not let me go if I had no Dutch passport. I did not bring it with me, so my dad had to come from the Netherlands with my Dutch passport. I still don’t know exactly why but I heard them say the word Ermeni (Turkish for Armenian) a couple of times. In Turkey we did not openly discuss this issue only wit our best friends.

I had Turkish friends in the Netherlands who did not want to be friends anymore after they heard I was an Armenian. But I know there are Armenians that act the same way.
I did not talk much about being Armenian but when I grew older I started to speak my mind.
I had discussions with Turkish people who would say that everyone who came from Turkey was Turkish. I would always try to explain that we were born in Turkey but we are Armenians from origin. They just don’t want to understand this. I would say to them when someone asks you here in the Netherlands what you nationality is then you say I was born in the Netherlands but I’m Turkish. You don’t say I’m Dutch because you are proud of were you came from and that is with us the same. But Turkish people say that as well from the Kurdish people. There are also people who say there were never Armenians in Turkey. But it is also the government in Turkey to blame for how Turkish people are today they are very big nationalist. And it is the politics the schools and the media who makes them this way. For instance every time the Armenian Genocide is in the news they start showing Turkish war films about 1915 filled with lies. The start programs letting so called victims of Turkish Genocide speak so people are being influenced by it. We have Turkish cable television so that is how I know.

There is a politician here in the Netherlands who was thrown from the list because he did not recognize the genocide. His name is Erdinc Sacan and he lives in my street. But Turkish people got angry speaking about freedom of speech. Well I did some research on him and the newspapers also wrote he was the owner of a chat box with all sorts of nationalists who were talking about the genocide and that it did not happen. You know a lot of politicians in Turkey are watching and supporting them Turkish politicians her in the Netherlands. He is also the owner of this website: http://www.ermenisorunu.gen.tr/engli...ro/review.html. Now his name already has been removed. But it is full of lies and I don’t understand that Political parties don’t do any research on those people before they get a position like this. What can you expect from someone who comes from a little village form the middle or east of Turkey.

We also know some Kurdish people we sometimes visit them. They say how they support us but some of them helped the Turks as well. When they heard I was Armenian the girl said my grandmother is an Armenian to. That’s strange I said only 1 grandmother and why are they always women. But most of the men were already killed. My dad says that a lot the Kurdish people also suffered a lot because of the Turks. But now they support us because they have a problem with Turkey as well. And of course I know there are Kurdish and Turkish people who helped Armenians during the War.

I also met some people here in the Netherlands on a forum who say that Turks were killed and not Armenians. And if I tell my story or how I see it they start brining up Karabach and other issues. They never answer your questions or come with arguments they also tell me Christians murdered Muslims etc etc. then I always say it is in your blood look at Djenkiz Kaan and Atila the Hun they love to slaughter villages and people as well. And then they get even angrier.

I stopped doing this because it makes me angry. I think it has a lot to do with how you were brought up by your parents as well. My boyfriend is Turkish he is educated and my parents really like him because of who he is and how he threats me. But I said from the beginning I will never become a Muslim and my children won’t either. But his family well that’s a a different story
Respect is very important as well

Wow, that's a great intro Armine. Welcome aboard. I love open-minded and confident people like you. I'm very interested to hear more about the dynamics between you and your boyfriend. Does he acknowledge the Genocide? Does he have any interest in learning about your culture? Or is he like most modern Turks who only wants to look forward and not dig too deep into historical events?

My 100% Armenian aunt married a Turkish man back in the day (late 60s). Of course, at that time (and perhaps even now) there was a huge amount of resistance from both families. However, they were in love, and they did not let their family get in the way of their love. They are still married. My grandma did not speak to my aunt for 2 years because of the marriage, and even despite the fact that my Turkish uncle converted to Christianity in order to marry my aunt. Eventually though, everybody got used to the idea, and everyone in my family loves my Turkish uncle, who is a very good, kind and gentle man. Sadly though, I believe that over time, my Armenian aunt has slowly forgotten her roots and has become Turkified rather than her husband becoming more Armenian. In some ways, it doesn't make much difference since there are cultural similarities. However, for example, my cousin from that marriage speaks no Armenian, does not attend Armenian church, and does not know much about her Armenian heritage or the difficulties that our people had at the turn of the century. I guess this is only natural if you live in Turkey, go to Turkish public schools, become a Turkish school teacher, and have a father who is Turkish. But it's another story of yet another loss to our culture. I hope that if you marry and/or have children with your Turkish boyfriend, you will not let this happen to your children.

I am not married to an Armenian, but my children (3 1/2 and 2 1/2) already know how to say their prayers in Armenian and they go to Armenian Sunday school every week. Next year they will also be attending Armenian language school every Saturday. And I will certainly teach them about who we are and where we came from as they grow up so that they are not lost to our people. I guess everyone should do what they want, but since we are so few in this world, if we all let our children be abandoned to other cultures, there will not be any Armenians left in 100 years. Anyway, that's my 2 cents, and again, a belated welcome!

[ardakilic]

Ardakilic, young people like you and Jade are setting a wonderful example for the rest of humanity, and for all of the rest of us Turks, Armenians, Turkish-Armenians and Armenian-Turks, etc. Welcome aboard, and I hope you enjoy the discussions.

I am also from Bakirkoy, but my family moved to the U.S. when I was 5. My father moved back to Istanbul about 9 years ago. I am going to be visiting for the first time since I left this summer. I am very excited about it. I am quite vocal about my opinions, however, and hopefully I will make it back to America without getting arrested in Istanbul.

I will be so pleasant to accompany and be the host, if you wish. You can enjoy visiting large boulevards, nice streets and churches of Bakırköy. Almost all the bookshops of Bakırköy belongs to Armenian. Dink and his brothers have a bookshop also in Bakırköy, Beyaz Adam.

Don't be afraid! Many people in Turkey can talk about "critical" issues. If they attempt to arrest you, i can help. Because i have experienced several times I hope this remains only a joke!

[1.5 million]

Phantom - these days your probably better off telling most Turks that you are Armenian then telling them your an American. And in general you will find most all Turks are open and friendly no matter who you say you are or where you are from. The nutjobs that infest the internet are not generally representative of most Turks who are generally much more easy going and friendly. Many will likely even express some degree of sympathy towards you as an Armenians (particularly if they are Kurdish "Turks") - though most will have only a sketchy understanding of the genocide and of Armenians at best. Anyway I know you will enjoy your trip. With your knowledge and good demeanor perhaps you will make some converts!

[imported_Armine]

Wow, that's a great intro Armine. Welcome aboard. I love open-minded and confident people like you. I'm very interested to hear more about the dynamics between you and your boyfriend. Does he acknowledge the Genocide? Does he have any interest in learning about your culture? Or is he like most modern Turks who only wants to look forward and not dig too deep into historical events?

My 100% Armenian aunt married a Turkish man back in the day (late 60s). Of course, at that time (and perhaps even now) there was a huge amount of resistance from both families. However, they were in love, and they did not let their family get in the way of their love. They are still married. My grandma did not speak to my aunt for 2 years because of the marriage, and even despite the fact that my Turkish uncle converted to Christianity in order to marry my aunt. Eventually though, everybody got used to the idea, and everyone in my family loves my Turkish uncle, who is a very good, kind and gentle man. Sadly though, I believe that over time, my Armenian aunt has slowly forgotten her roots and has become Turkified rather than her husband becoming more Armenian. In some ways, it doesn't make much difference since there are cultural similarities. However, for example, my cousin from that marriage speaks no Armenian, does not attend Armenian church, and does not know much about her Armenian heritage or the difficulties that our people had at the turn of the century. I guess this is only natural if you live in Turkey, go to Turkish public schools, become a Turkish school teacher, and have a father who is Turkish. But it's another story of yet another loss to our culture. I hope that if you marry and/or have children with your Turkish boyfriend, you will not let this happen to your children.

I am not married to an Armenian, but my children (3 1/2 and 2 1/2) already know how to say their prayers in Armenian and they go to Armenian Sunday school every week. Next year they will also be attending Armenian language school every Saturday. And I will certainly teach them about who we are and where we came from as they grow up so that they are not lost to our people. I guess everyone should do what they want, but since we are so few in this world, if we all let our children be abandoned to other cultures, there will not be any Armenians left in 100 years. Anyway, that's my 2 cents, and again, a belated welcome!

Thank you for making me feel welcome. I will try to keep my stories as short as possible J
We are together now for 2 years. But the person he is, the way he thinks, they way he stands in live; his character is very different from how he was brought up by his parents. You must know his family is from Konya (Beysehir) no city people at all. They were brought up very religious and traditional. His sisters and brother married at a very young age my boyfriend (22 years old) as well. But he discovered this was not what he wanted for himself, he wanted to go to school/university become someone in this society fall in love and then get married. He is also the youngest in the family. So he decided to get divorced which was against the will of his family. But he stood up for himself and in some way I think freed himself from his family. From there on he became a different person.

Now when I met him he did not know much about Armenians and the Genocide. He only knew what his family had told him and that was that Armenians were deported for there own best interest. That 400.000 Armenians died but it was during War people from Ottoman side died as well. I was not surprised to hear this because I have read a lot of books spoke to a lot of people. And it is well known that generations long lies were told about the Genocide. He had no problem with me being half Armenian half Dutch the most important for him was and still is the person itself. Looking at someone as an individual.

And of course I told him different things about the Genocide also lately it has been a lot in the media and he could not understand why this was still so important to us. In the beginning our discussions became more of a battle. Because somehow when I feel people are being wrong about Armenians and the Genocide I become a bit of a nationalist myself. I feel the need to stand up for what happened and I feel the need to protect the Armenians. Latter on I learned as well to deal with these situations because it was new for me as well. He learned a lot of things from my father about what happened (he sometimes tells us stories he heard from his mothers grandfather or things he experienced himself), things my boyfriend knew nothing about. I try to explain things the best way I can and sometimes it is good to give it a rest.

He always thought his country is very tolerant and not nationalists, accepting every kind of religion. He has to get used to that as well as the fact he does not understand why the things his parents told him are very different from our stories. People sometimes have to grow to certain situations. He is also young 26 years and you know he was brought with the idea of Ataturk being a hero and everything. But I can see in him he is beginning to see things differently. We are very open about everything and talking about everything is the most important.
He does have interest in our culture, he asks questions about it to my father or me. He comes to celebrate Christmas with us. He goes with us to Armenian funerals (relatives) and asks questions about it afterwards. He has a lot of respect for my parents and family. And he is not afraid of digging in the past. He said if it is true what the Ottomans did during 1915-1920 they should recognise the Genocide. He is not afraid of asking questions about it. He is very curious and likes to learn new things even if it is against his feelings.

My parents like him very much and they see him as their own son. My father says to me I see how he is, his character how he threats you, what education he did and he is a good person. That is most important. And of course I talk with my parents about marriage and what if we decide to have any children. And they agree of how we think and they support us.

But his family on the other hand want me to become a Muslim and wear a headscarf like they do. When they discovered I was a Christian and Armenian they flipped. They told me I must become a Muslim otherwise our children will get disabled and if I become a Muslim I will be like I’m reborn from my mother. That we have to practice Muslim religion my boyfriend does not either. They are I think afraid of loosing him and that he is getting out of their reach. It is pity they don’t look at me as a human being. But I think it will be there loss at the end.

Important is you have to listen to your own hart, don’t get influenced by others and talk about all things. We always say as long as we agree among each other there is no problem. My boyfriend knows that I will never give up being a Christian and an Armenian this is too important to me. And he is ok with this. We want to bring up our children as good as possible and informing them about both religions. So they can make a choice of there own latter on. And I agree with you about keeping our culture alive. But you do not chose with whom you fall in love with.

It changed me as well in some ways but I always feel you learn new things from these experiences. All things are learning experiences and it makes you the person you are today. I always stay positive and don’t let people get to me.

What you told me about your aunt is the same as my father told me about his aunt who married a Turkish Muslim men. It was as well very difficult at those times and not accepted. But she did not give up her religion neither did her husband. They are not berried at the same graveyard. They always stayed together and respected each other they had no children, which makes the situation also easier I think. My father’s nefyou married Jewish women and the brought up their children as Christians (Armenian).

You are right some people change but I will not let that happen. I feel too strong and too much of an Armenian to let this happen. People have to respect you as are. And of course bringing children up will be differently but we will do what we think is best.

And I think by teaching your children their language and religion is very important to keep it alive. I have a lot of respect for that.