Centuries of peace between Anatolian muslims and Christians

[Steph]

Maybe its because we can't get the barbarity out of our DNA while all Armenians who have been blessed with a spotless clean past have evolved into a new Homo.

hitite,
I said many not all turks. Don't be so sensitive, I bet you bruise like a peach.

[hitite]

So you mean "many" Turks have a disgusting past but not all?

[Steph]

So you mean "many" Turks have a disgusting past but not all?

okay,let's play....

turkey has a disgusting past, many, not all, turks revel in this and would like to repeat it. I wrote many turks under different flags to include turkey, northern Cyprus and, of course, azerbad,jan.

It seems that all turkish skin is very sensitive to criticism.

If a dog snaps at a hand trying to stroke it, maybe the dog is a wolf?

[lal]

Do you have to actually pretend (as opposed to just biting your tongue and not saying anything when around certain religious people)?

OK, this time of the year its difficult to ignore the overwhelming presence of Islam when ghastly wailings from dozens of minarets wake you up at dawn, the TV is full of sanctimonious programs praising Islam, and you can't get a proper meal until it gets dark. But, setting aside the horrors of Ramazan (and maybe also the pressure of parents and relatives), is it really that difficult in a day to day basis to live without Islamic interference and pressure?



I think that's true - while it isn't the whole story, especially regarding the Armenian Genocide, over the longer period, over those 1000 years of "living side by side", it was a war of religions.

well, my parents are all believers. all men go to friday prayings and everybody fastens during ramazan.none of them drink alcohol during ramazan. ı dont pretend as if ı fasten. ı never do that. even if they kill me.

when you are a muslim ,automaticly you belong to a muslim ummah. in islam, christians and jews are considered as enemy.so real muslim is the enemy of christians. so turks are really very good muslims. we killed more christians than any other muslim country on earth.recent surveys show that in the whole world today,christianity is the most disliked in turkey ,about 84%.

islam is an arab imperializm. and christianity is western imperializm. today islam is worse than christianity. because kuran cant be changed or reformed. so women are second class creatures and so are nonmuslims. but in reality we muslims are the second class creatures of europe.

ı love john lennons ,imagine song. he knew it.he is a great man. ı want to hope that he was not a dreamer.

it is amazing to read diaspora armenians . they are struggling and struglling to find ways to harm turkey. they are poisened by hatred feelings.they even think that they are allies with arabs and iranians. ı never believe that in any muslim majority country,non muslims can be equal citizens.

ı want turkey to apologise for what happened to armenians.not because diaspora armenians want or west wants. we must do this for our mental health.for moral values ,for humanity... ı dont think that armenia can take any land or money from turkey if turkey confess the guilt. turkey must do this. because armenians belong to anatolia ,they really are the closest people to turks--even more than azeri or other centrel asian turks--and they never desereved what happened to them.

japan apologised with half mouth from china, disgusting hypocratic france never apologised for anything they did.only germans apologised because they lost and surrendered.

but turks must make a full apologise. ı want this. only than ı can openly drink a bottle of wine on the streets of istanbul during the ramazan with myfriend.

[Joseph]

well, my parents are all believers. all men go to friday prayings and everybody fastens during ramazan.none of them drink alcohol during ramazan. ı dont pretend as if ı fasten. ı never do that. even if they kill me.

when you are a muslim ,automaticly you belong to a muslim ummah. in islam, christians and jews are considered as enemy.so real muslim is the enemy of christians. so turks are really very good muslims. we killed more christians than any other muslim country on earth.recent surveys show that in the whole world today,christianity is the most disliked in turkey ,about 84%.

islam is an arab imperializm. and christianity is western imperializm. today islam is worse than christianity. because kuran cant be changed or reformed. so women are second class creatures and so are nonmuslims. but in reality we muslims are the second class creatures of europe.

ı love john lennons ,imagine song. he knew it.he is a great man. ı want to hope that he was not a dreamer.

it is amazing to read diaspora armenians . they are struggling and struglling to find ways to harm turkey. they are poisened by hatred feelings.they even think that they are allies with arabs and iranians. ı never believe that in any muslim majority country,non muslims can be equal citizens.

ı want turkey to apologise for what happened to armenians.not because diaspora armenians want or west wants. we must do this for our mental health.for moral values ,for humanity... ı dont think that armenia can take any land or money from turkey if turkey confess the guilt. turkey must do this. because armenians belong to anatolia ,they really are the closest people to turks--even more than azeri or other centrel asian turks--and they never desereved what happened to them.

japan apologised with half mouth from china, disgusting hypocratic france never apologised for anything they did.only germans apologised because they lost and surrendered.

but turks must make a full apologise. ı want this. only than ı can openly drink a bottle of wine on the streets of istanbul during the ramazan with myfriend.

lal,

I may not agree 100% with you on everything {perhaps 95% } but I really appreciate your honesty and intellect. I wish there were more humans like you...everywhere.

[lal]

lal,

I may not agree 100% with you on everything {perhaps 95% } but I really appreciate your honesty and intellect. I wish there were more humans like you...everywhere.

Thank you for your nice compliment.You must be a very noble gentelman.

To be called a ''human'' is the best word ı can get. But ı dont mind to be called an '' animal '' also. To be called names of a selfish,wild, uneducated creature who only boasts with her/his identity,religon, nationality,race etc is something ı wouldnt like.

To think and live the way''strong ones can do everything and weaker ones are the preys in front of the strong ones'' is not my ideal.

I dream a new world in where we have less identities,more humanity and justice . Cleaner planet. A multicultural society with loose borders. No more starving Africa, No more genocides no more Bush kinds.

I know, many call this thinking a nice but impossible,unrealistic dream .
Maybe so. But even if it is so,what must ı and people like me do? Should we surrender to the ''ceatures''?


I try to show another path to armenian friends. To follow the standart fighting methods is endless. That is,Turkey must be punished as much as possible. PKK must be supported to harm Turkey. USA must accept the genocide. etc.

I dont claim that it is never impossible to weaken Turkey. But I say negativity only brings more negativity.

I only try to say that there are always peacefull methods for every conflicts. Even for genocides. I want you to believe me.

lal

[hitite]

okay,let's play....

turkey has a disgusting past, many, not all, turks revel in this and would like to repeat it. I wrote many turks under different flags to include turkey, northern Cyprus and, of course, azerbad,jan.

It seems that all turkish skin is very sensitive to criticism.

If a dog snaps at a hand trying to stroke it, maybe the dog is a wolf?

Steph its not criticism I cannot take, I just find your wording interesting. I dont care very much that you think Turkey has a disgusting past, what does a disgusting past mean anyway? Its just wierd to see how the hatred broiling within surfaces every now and then.

Needless to say I think Turkey has a very interesting, at times glorious, sometimes grim past. However if your are comparing our past to that of say, the Tasmanian Aborigines, then you might call ours and yours pretty disgusting.

[egeli]

lal,

I may not agree 100% with you on everything {perhaps 95% } but I really appreciate your honesty and intellect. I wish there were more humans like you...everywhere.

This forum is a very special place. I've had many horrible experiences in other forums with Turkish-Armenian dialogue. Glad to see that there is at least one forum where people are respected.

[CRDA-France]

I've had many horrible experiences in other forums with Turkish-Armenian dialogue.

Turkish-Armenian Dialogue exists and is now with only Turkish people who struggle for Human Rights.

http://www.crda-france.org/fr/9genocide1915/g_0.htm

It can be dialogue when 1915 Genocide is recognized and when actual State Denial is condemned. Is it the case with this web surfer ?

This debate is falsified when we speak of relations between Muslims and Christians in Anatolia. Do we have to remind more than 3 centuries of "Devshirmeh", the Blood Tax, capturing Christian boys and young girls in order to turkify them and dispatch them alround the Ottoman Empire ?

http://www.crda-france.org/fr/6histoire/a_d/16_devchirme_bibliographie.htm

Besides this, peace already exists between Islam and Near Estern Christanity :

http://www.mec-churches.org/main_eng.htm

http://www.azad-hye.net/news/viewnews.asp?newsId=112dfk92

http://www.chrislam.org/

http://www.crda-france.org/fr/breligion/islam/0home.htm

It has existed now and in the past for centuries with the Arabs, the Persians, Muslims Indians and Indonesians :

http://www.armeniangenocide.com/showthread.php?t=2669

If we say that the relations between Turks and Armenians are based on religion, it is at the level of the visible part of the iceberg and this debate is unappropriate and uncomplete. These relations are based on :
Coloniser State // Indigeneous people

as it it is nowadays regarding Turkey with the Kurds :

http://www.crda-france.org/fr/8environnements/0caucasie/kurdes_0.htm

Nil (Paris, France)

http://www.crda-france.org/fr/breligion/islam/1dialogue_chretien_nonhay.htm

#450

Translation French >> English :

http://www.google.com/language_tools?hl=en

http://dictionnaire.tv5.org/

[Pedro Xaramillo]

Spot on

Turkish-Armenian Dialogue exists and is now with only Turkish people who struggle for Human Rights.

http://www.crda-france.org/fr/9genocide1915/g_0.htm

It can be dialogue when 1915 Genocide is recognized and when actual State Denial is condemned. Is it the case with this web surfer ?

This debate is falsified when we speak of relations between Muslims and Christians in Anatolia. Do we have to remind more than 3 centuries of "Devshirmeh", the Blood Tax, capturing Christian boys and young girls in order to turkify them and dispatch them alround the Ottoman Empire ?

http://www.crda-france.org/fr/6histoire/a_d/16_devchirme_bibliographie.htm

Besides this, peace already exists between Islam and Near Estern Christanity :

http://www.mec-churches.org/main_eng.htm

http://www.azad-hye.net/news/viewnews.asp?newsId=112dfk92

http://www.chrislam.org/

http://www.crda-france.org/fr/breligion/islam/0home.htm

It has existed now and in the past for centuries with the Arabs, the Persians, Muslims Indians and Indonesians :

http://www.armeniangenocide.com/showthread.php?t=2669

If we say that the relations between Turks and Armenians are based on religion, it is at the level of the visible part of the iceberg and this debate is unappropriate and uncomplete. These relations are based on :
Coloniser State // Indigeneous people

as it it is nowadays regarding Turkey with the Kurds :

http://www.crda-france.org/fr/8environnements/0caucasie/kurdes_0.htm

Nil (Paris, France)

http://www.crda-france.org/fr/breligion/islam/1dialogue_chretien_nonhay.htm

#450

Translation French >> English :

http://www.google.com/language_tools?hl=en

http://dictionnaire.tv5.org/

I know many Muslims, the area I live in in Durban, is majority Arab, Indian and Iranian descended, most get along fine with Christians and there has never been any trouble as far as I can recall.
Iran at the moment is one of Armenia's greatest allies and there are large Armenian populations in countries like Lebanon, Syria and Iran that have historically been treated with respect.
Also remember that many Arabs took in Armenians during the Genocide :

http://www.armenian-genocide.org/keyword_search.Arab/Affirmation.4/current_category.1/affirmation_detail.html

Also please remember that there were Muslim Armenians (Hamsheni's, etc.) who are also cruelly treated. In addition how many Kurds weren't murdered as well. Don't forget about the ethnic cleansing of the Hatay province.

Spot on with the Coloniser/Indigenous thing, the Conquistadors were Christians and they weren't exactly best mates with us. The English who were Protestant treated Irish Catholics cruelly, as someone of both those ancestries I can tell its got noting to do with religion.
Hitler didn't set much by religion and look at what he was.

In the Ottoman Empire There was a period of relative cordial relations, however Armenians were always treated as second class citizens, once again
lok at Devshirmeh and the Janissary. Mostly Turks were hostile, for 16t century accounts go read Pachevi Ibrahim for instance.

The only way the Armenia and Turkey and reconsile is Turkey must admit to these events.

As to the earlier post regarding Artsakh (its not Karabagh, its always been Artsakh), it is historically Armenian, the population was part of Armenia till Stalin did his hocus pocus and gave to Azerbaijan, the majority is Armenian and they vote not to be in Azerbaijan during the late 80s, they were attacked. Armenians had no choice but to fight