Coming to terms with the events of 1915

[hipeter924]

Interesting, looks like a good book.

Well he is an interesting person, he interviewed Osama Bin Laden,lol. Also on Al Jazeera he spoke with a Bush administration guy, and the guy was calling Fisk a traitor, anti-american, a terrorist...it was pretty funny.

[Sako]

Well this guy just got pushed into my "Interesting Guy of the Year" list.

[Joseph]

http://www.armeniangenocide.com/showthread.php?t=2103&highlight=Robert+Fisk

http://www.armeniangenocide.com/showthread.php?t=2928&highlight=Robert+Fisk

http://www.armeniangenocide.com/showthread.php?t=2792&highlight=Robert+Fisk

http://www.armeniangenocide.com/showthread.php?t=2753&highlight=Robert+Fisk

[Sako]

Thanks Joseph, I'll be straight about this, I haven't dug into the archives yet in the forum, haven't got the chance. Thanks for pointing these threads out.

[Edoman]

They are all cowards

Come on, the whole world knew what was happening to us and they sat on the butts and did nothing but a few who barked like little poodles.
Russians, England, France,… used us to their advantages, betrayed us with their false promises of statehood and didn’t even had the courage to join us after we got enough weapons to hold the Turks back. Russians wouldn’t even allow the Armenian battalion to fight against the Turks to save their own people. They send them to the German front them heartless bastards.
They knew very well that if it wasn’t for us (as part of the allied force) fighting all alone against the overwhelming Turkish attacks they would have lost the WWI miserably. No body cared and nobody cares now. They are all guilty as sin. WWII was a continuation of WWI and the world betrayed the Armenians in order to have a Muslim secular state as an ally to control the ME. Yes, it was a victory of Evil over Good and it continues. The Turks even today have a get out of jail free card from the world and everybody is licking their boots. Nothing worse than leaders of so called free society who have no freaking honor. Damn them all, cowards.

http://www.archive.org/stream/whyarmeniashould00pasduoft/whyarmeniashould00pasduoft_djvu.txt

<<…In 1914 both Turkey and Russia appealed to the Armenians by vari-
ous promises of a future autonomous Armenia to secure their assistance
in their respective military operations. Through their long and bitter
experience the Armenians knew very well that the imperialistic govern-
ments of both Turkey and of Russia were opposed to their national as-
pirations and therefore those promises had no value whatever. But,
realizing the universal significance of the present war, and considering
the fact that justice was on the side of the Entente, the Armenians, in
spite of their distrust of the Russian government, from the very begin-
ning, unreservedly bound themselves to the allied cause.

This decision of the Armenians cost them the sacrifice of more than
1,000,000 men in Turkish Armenia, and complete devastation of their
native land even in the first year of the war.

In spite of this terrible blow, the Armenians did not lose their vigor,
and, even though the autocratic Russian government, up to the time of
the Revolution, created all sorts of obstacles to impede their activities,
they still continued their assistance to the allied cause. In bringing about
the failure of the three Turkish offensives in 1914 and 1915 the Arme-
nians gave the allied cause important armed assistance, on both sides of
the Turco-Russian frontier.

After the Russian Revolution, when, the Russian military forces fled
from the Caucasian front and left it unprotected from January, 1918,
to the middle of the following September, the Armenians were the only
people who resisted and delayed the Turco-German advance toward
Baku. Moreover, the Armenians accomplished all this with their own
forces, all alone, surrounded on all sides by hostile elements, without
any means of communication with their great Allies of the West. As an
evidence of this we may mention the fact that during the last eight



CONCLUSION 43

months and a half the Armenians have received from the Allies only
6,500,000 rubles ($3,250,000) of financial assistance, and the 2,800
British soldiers who were too few and arrived too late to save Baku.

Let us now look at the other side of the picture.

Had the Armenians assumed an entirely opposite attitude from what
they actually did ; in other words, had they bound their fate in 1914 to
the Turco-German cause, just as the Bulgarians did in 1915, what would
have been the trend of events in the Near East ? Here is a question to
which, it is quite possible, our great Allies have had no time to give any
consideration. But that very question was put before the Armenians
in 1914, and with no light heart did they answer it by their decision to
join the Allies. Each and every one of them had a clear presentiment of
the terrible responsibility they assumed. Those millions of corpses of
Armenian women and children which spotted the plains in the summer
of 1915, rose like phantoms before our very eyes in the August of 1914
when we decided to resist the wild Turkish revengefulness and its
frightful outcome. Now, in October, 1918, when we are so close to
the hour of the final victory, and feel quite safe and certain that the
heavy and gloomy days of the summer of 1914 will never return, I
shall permit myself to picture in a few words, before I finish, that which
would have taken place if the Armenians had sided with the Germano-
Turks in the Near East from the beginning of the war.

First of all, those frightful Armenian massacres would not have taken
place. On the contrary, the Turks and the Germans would have tried
to win the sympathy of the Armenians in every possible way until the
end of the war.

On the other hand, so long as the Georgians and Tartars of the
Caucasian peoples were only too eager to co-operate with the Germano-
Turks, as the events of 1918 fully demonstrate, had the Armenians like-
wise joined them in 1914, by cutting the railroads, the backbone of the
Caucasian Russian army, all the Caucasian country would have slipped
out of the hands of the Russians in a few weeks, and the Turco-Ger-
mans would have reached Baku in the autumn of the same year. The
Armenians, Georgians, and Tartars of the Caucasus, united, would have
been able to form with the greatest ease an army of 700,000 men, by
which they would have been able to defend the Caucasian mountain-
ridge against the Russians. Meanwhile, the entire Turkish army wonM



44 WHY ARMENIA SHOULD BE FREE

have been available to advance immediately toward the interior of Asia
and join the 18,000,000 Moslems of Asiatic Russia. We may safely say,
neither Persia nor Afghanistan could have remained neutral on seeing
such successful achievements by the Turks.

In the course of such events Russia would have been compelled to
remove the greater portion of her forces to the East and would not
have been able to protect her Western frontiers as successfully as she
did. Therefore, quite probably, the Russian collapse would have taken
place in the summer of 1915, when the Germans occupied Russian
Poland. On the other hand, Great Britain would have been obliged to
appropriate the greater portion of her newly-formed land forces for
the protection of India, and would have been unable to rush as great a
force to the defence of heroic France as she actually did. Quite likely,
under these conditions, neither Italy nor Roumania would have aban-
doned her neutrality, and thus the war might have ended in 1915 or
1916 with the victory of the central Powers, at least on land.

It was as clear as day to the Armenians that a Germane-Turkish vic-
tory could never satisfy their national aspirations. The most that those
nations would have done for us would have been to grant nominal rights
to the Armenia of their own choice. But it was very plain to us also
that we should not have suffered such frightful human losses had we not
sided with the Allies. We consciously chose this last alternative,
namely : we tied our fate to the allied victory ; we exposed our very exist-
ence to danger in order to realize the complete fulfillment of our na-
tional ambition, that is, to see the re-establishment of the United His-
toric Independent Armenia.

With our modest means, we have fulfilled our duty in full measure in
this great struggle in order to save civilization from an impending
doom. Now it is for our great Allies to act… >>>>




Hitler was right, no one gives a damn about the Armenians, even today. Everybody is sorry that we still exists. Well, Armenian borders have always changed in history, it shall change yet again in the future.

It is impossible to destroy Gods first Nation.

Ha, the Warrior Gods will be amused.

[Sako]

Come on, the whole world knew what was happening to us and they sat on the butts and did nothing but a few who barked like little poodles.
Russians, England, France,… used us to their advantages, betrayed us with their false promises of statehood and didn’t even had the courage to join us after we got enough weapons to hold the Turks back. Russians wouldn’t even allow the Armenian battalion to fight against the Turks to save their own people. They send them to the German front them heartless bastards.
They knew very well that if it wasn’t for us (as part of the allied force) fighting all alone against the overwhelming Turkish attacks they would have lost the WWI miserably. No body cared and nobody cares now. They are all guilty as sin. WWII was a continuation of WWI and the world betrayed the Armenians in order to have a Muslim secular state as an ally to control the ME. Yes, it was a victory of Evil over Good and it continues. The Turks even today have a get out of jail free card from the world and everybody is licking their boots. Nothing worse than leaders of so called free society who have no freaking honor. Damn them all, cowards.

True, but hey, who knows, maybe they really had good excuses, lol. ?

Hitler was right, no one gives a damn about the Armenians, even today. Everybody is sorry that we still exists. Well, Armenian borders have always changed in history, it shall change yet again in the future.

I hope it changes properly though and not at the expense of rivers of blood.

It is impossible to destroy Gods first Nation.

Edoman Jan, I love my country but it wasn't the first nation . This of course shows how much you love Armenia and I'm with you.

[Pedro Xaramillo]

Hitler was right, no one gives a damn about the Armenians, even today. Everybody is sorry that we still exists. Well, Armenian borders have always changed in history, it shall change yet again in the future.

Not true, I would be sorry if you didn't exist, it would mean the end of one of the most beautiful and couragious civilations in history who regardless of so many trials, tribualtions and atrocities commited against them survived.
How can anyone scorn such a people?

I'm not trying to score points here, just saying how I feel.

[Edoman]

Thanks Pedro, means a lot amigo.

Saco Jan you are right, I will rephrase

It is impossible to destroy Gods first Christian State. Proven many times in history. Not happening.

[Pedro Xaramillo]

My pleasure

And really mean that from the bottom of heart, the world hasn't treated you guys fairly.

I sometimes wonder how it must feel when you are Armenian and you had to go through all that, and almost had your entire history wiped out and then, regardless of how bad it is still find people like the xxxkurtler who claim that they created Armenian culture (and worse) and people who deny the genocide.

I recently experienced a similar feeling talking to so dude from Spain who said we should be thankful for the conquistadors because they saved us by committing atrocities because we are backward and would have destroyed ourselves anyway and then continued to say that Amerinds dying was really their own fault.

However in a way its more painful for Armenians as we did no't lose our people so rapidly and so recently

There were times in the past that I would return such words with equal prejudice towards people from Spain and the US, but I learned from Armenians, the fact regardless of all that happened most Armenians can find it in their hearts to forgive and embrace the Turks (those obviously that aren't anti Armenian) and strive for friendship.

I don't think at times even Armenians realise how rare that is.
Stuff like that makes someon strive to look past your pains and any hate and realise we are all human beings

[Sako]

Not true, I would be sorry if you didn't exist, it would mean the end of one of the most beautiful and couragious civilations in history who regardless of so many trials, tribualtions and atrocities commited against them survived.
How can anyone scorn such a people?

I'm not trying to score points here, just saying how I feel.

Thanks bro. We were just talking about the majority although this is starting to change.

Thanks Pedro, means a lot amigo.

Saco Jan you are right, I will rephrase

It is impossible to destroy Gods first Christian State. Proven many times in history. Not happening.

With you till the end on that, Edoman Jan, .

And really mean that from the bottom of heart, the world hasn't treated you guys fairly.

Yeah, neither have they treated your or many other countries fairly but yeah, Armenia has been going through A LOT, till now.

I sometimes wonder how it must feel when you are Armenian and you had to go through all that, and almost had your entire history wiped out and then, regardless of how bad it is still find people like the xxxkurtler who claim that they created Armenian culture (and worse) and people who deny the genocide.

We simply laugh, bro, we simply laugh. Clowns work their asses off so you can laugh at them and we laugh ... like this

I recently experienced a similar feeling talking to so dude from Spain who said we should be thankful for the conquistadors because they saved us by committing atrocities because we are backward and would have destroyed ourselves anyway and then continued to say that Amerinds dying was really their own fault.

Don't pay too much attention. Your going through what we're going through as well it seems.

However in a way its more painful for Armenians as we did no't lose our people so rapidly and so recently

And we're not going to forget that eiter.

There were times in the past that I would return such words with equal prejudice towards people from Spain and the US, but I learned from Armenians, the fact regardless of all that happened most Armenians can find it in their hearts to forgive and embrace the Turks (those obviously that aren't anti Armenian) and strive for friendship.

Thanks bro. Same here. I'm glad you could embrace us, it would be a true loss if you weren't around.

I don't think at times even Armenians realise how rare that is.
Stuff like that makes someon strive to look past your pains and any hate and realise we are all human beings

This is what we ALL have to realise. I recognize one nation, the world, not just Armenia. A better world means a better Armenia.