Discussion Thread

[Alexandros]

ı dont want to be misunderstood here.ı only tell my opinion . ı might be wrong. ı dont have to agree with everything you say, but, if you people think that recognition of AG by the president of usa will help turkey to admit it and open the dialog and bring peace and cure the pains between turkey and armenia and azerbeycan, so be it.

okay. are you happy now my dear?

lal,

I would love to see diplomatic normalization between Turkey and Armenia however the reason Turkey severed its diplomatic ties with Armenia and closed its border in 1993 was to put pressure on Armenia to withdraw their troops from Nagorno-Karabach and this had nothing to do with the AG in my honest opinion.

[Sako]

Hate to bounce in but you've got the wrong view, Lal.

*ı dont want to be misunderstood here.ı only tell my opinion . ı might be wrong. ı dont have to agree with everything you say, but, if you people think that recognition of AG by the president of usa will help turkey to admit it and open the dialog and bring peace and cure the pains between turkey and armenia and azerbeycan, so be it.*

Turkey has taken the "You're talking to a wall" moto so why should we even care what Turks think? If America recognizes the Genocide, why should we care what Turks will feel? Peopl will face what happened and force, if required, Turkey to accept it as well. Turkey won't listen to reason and we aren't going to ruin another generation by waiting until the Turks feel better. Truth is, their just lying and standing in the shadows not caring what we say at all or what anyone else says and according to you, if we don't do anything, everything will fall into place "slowly, slowly"? Turkey is WAITING FOR TIME TO PASS BY so proving the Genocide happened will be more difficult later on. The same thing the British did. They waited decades before apologizing for what they did and now that apology was simply symbolic. Also, when you say "cure the pains between Turkey, Armenia, and Azrbeycan", it's only the pain of Armenia, not Turkey and Azerbeycan. The Genocide was commited by the Turks and when it comes to accepting it, you talk about YOUR pain, what about our pain? You shouldn't even bring up your pain because if you simply accept what happened, everything will wash away in time. But instead, you ask us to be patient? Your government wants just that but we haven't seen Turkey take even one step forward and we're not going to wait. If America accepts the Genocide, our pain will be a bit healed because your strange government hid the Genocide for ages. You know how that feels? The Turks should feel our pain, not the other way around. You divide that pain as if Turkey felt the same thing we did. What pain do you talk about? Forgive me, I may compose my words a bit wrongly but your idea is almost completely wrong. Stop making Turkey look innocent directly or indirectly.

*okay. are you happy now my dear?*

No, not yet. When Turkey stops this goose chase, then we'll be happy.

[VaheTheGreat(e)]

turkish state probably will never recognise the AG. we have to go step by step. first more turks must listen what armenians say. then borders must open,more turists must travel each other, more trade must happen,karabağ problem must end in peace among azeri and armenia.more and more turkish individually people must apologise for the AG. and finally turkish state must apologise.

for diaspora it is the biggest goal and victory to make the president of usa to call it genocide. but ı doubt if it will help us ,friendly turks,armenia armenians and azeris living in this area of the world.this recognition may help turkish state to promote even a bigger armenian enemy image.

my opinions will not change about AG ofcourse. but now,armenia will be considered even a bigger evil enemy in turkey.your victory maybe our loss here.

LOL, You are definitely afraid of US president calling things by their name....

[lal]

Hate to bounce in but you've got the wrong view, Lal.

*ı dont want to be misunderstood here.ı only tell my opinion . ı might be wrong. ı dont have to agree with everything you say, but, if you people think that recognition of AG by the president of usa will help turkey to admit it and open the dialog and bring peace and cure the pains between turkey and armenia and azerbeycan, so be it.*

Turkey has taken the "You're talking to a wall" moto so why should we even care what Turks think? If America recognizes the Genocide, why should we care what Turks will feel? Peopl will face what happened and force, if required, Turkey to accept it as well. Turkey won't listen to reason and we aren't going to ruin another generation by waiting until the Turks feel better. Truth is, their just lying and standing in the shadows not caring what we say at all or what anyone else says and according to you, if we don't do anything, everything will fall into place "slowly, slowly"? Turkey is WAITING FOR TIME TO PASS BY so proving the Genocide happened will be more difficult later on. The same thing the British did. They waited decades before apologizing for what they did and now that apology was simply symbolic. Also, when you say "cure the pains between Turkey, Armenia, and Azrbeycan", it's only the pain of Armenia, not Turkey and Azerbeycan. The Genocide was commited by the Turks and when it comes to accepting it, you talk about YOUR pain, what about our pain? You shouldn't even bring up your pain because if you simply accept what happened, everything will wash away in time. But instead, you ask us to be patient? Your government wants just that but we haven't seen Turkey take even one step forward and we're not going to wait. If America accepts the Genocide, our pain will be a bit healed because your strange government hid the Genocide for ages. You know how that feels? The Turks should feel our pain, not the other way around. You divide that pain as if Turkey felt the same thing we did. What pain do you talk about? Forgive me, I may compose my words a bit wrongly but your idea is almost completely wrong. Stop making Turkey look innocent directly or indirectly.

*okay. are you happy now my dear?*

No, not yet. When Turkey stops this goose chase, then we'll be happy.

İf armenians consider turks as the enemy,then it is very important to hear USA presidents acceptence of genocide, it is also very important eu to refuse turkey, it is very important pkk terrorizm harming turkey,etc. because the ultimate goal is to force turkey to surrender and make her confess her guilt and get more.and until that day nobody cares what turks think about armenians,closed borders,etc

ı am not a turkish nationalist, thats why ı can see the truth,but dont expect me to be an armenian nationalist either.

thats why ı said before ı dont agree with you. ı prefer a diolog between people,nice and kind diologs, not ready to attack anytime in every opportunity,ı want open borders, starting turizm and trade,no visas. slowly learning the truth. than an apology by one by, than thousands, than millions, than the state.this is my path. obamas or nationalist armenians or turkish nationalists words ,spouts,cant change my thinking.

also,obviously ı didnt meant turks and azeris feel pain.(maybe azeris have some pain though) thats my poor english. but you also dont have to be so sensitive, right? because you know ım not a denier.

maybe ı am an idiot. nobody likes me, not turks nor armenians.

[lal]

LOL, You are definitely afraid of US president calling things by their name....

yeah, did you fire me from education ministry ,my dear?

[bell-the-cat]

nobody likes me, not turks nor armenians.

That's a sure sign you are right, lal.

[Sako]

İf armenians consider turks as the enemy,then it is very important to hear USA presidents acceptence of genocide, it is also very important eu to refuse turkey, it is very important pkk terrorizm harming turkey,etc. because the ultimate goal is to force turkey to surrender and make her confess her guilt and get more.and until that day nobody cares what turks think about armenians,closed borders,etc

No one here considers anyone as an enemy, get that phrase out of your head. I'm tired of hearing that. The people that make anything look less important, that go against us with their own lies, who work against the welfare of Armenians and Turks alike, those are our enemies. Turkey must and will get the blame though, that is the point of recognition, to accept what happened, are you against that? The Turks have done too much to us to be simply forgiven and you would say THE SAME if we tried to get rid of you and your families and commit Genocide. This isn't a mantra we chant, this is the truth and you don't realise our pain. I'm not saying your blind, I'm not saying your wrong, I'm not saying many Armenians don't go a bit too far, but Turkey will get the blame. Who else is supposed to get the blame? Justice will be served so this NEVER HAPPENS AGAIN Lal, whether you and Turkey are prepared for it or not. My heart weeps seeing all that happens today, both in Turkey and Armenia, and when people think I'm nationalist or something, I simply feel disgusted. There is no time for patience. We have been patient for almost a century, how much longer should we wait, what are you exactly asking? Once the Genocide is accepted, everything will be falling into place because the biggest step forward will be taken, Armenia will be remembered. That move will be setting an example for the world and Turkey will fare more then it imagines. I talk for the welfare of both your and my country, and the world. So stop urging us to allow our past to be forgotten for a bit longer.

ı am not a turkish nationalist, thats why ı can see the truth,but dont expect me to be an armenian nationalist either.

What makes you think me or anyone here is a nationalist ? Why do all the Turks always hide behind these words? Say something we don't know.

thats why ı said before ı dont agree with you. ı prefer a diolog between people,nice and kind diologs, not ready to attack anytime in every opportunity,ı want open borders, starting turizm and trade,no visas.

There's a nice dream and it will come true, don't worry. ALL THIS will happen much faster AFTER the Genocide is recognized. How do you want people to talk with each other when such a problem hangs in the air? I'm trying to do so many things for this to happen right now but still, it won't be very effective, Turkey won't allow anything to happen. You want kind words? You want open borders? You want all this when we haven't even gotten a proper apology? The Turks kill anyone who even uses the word Genocide accidentally, they send threats, they harm their own people and try to hide everything. Tourism? You joking? Now, when we want to take a step forward, you ask me to be patient? I don't really care what you think about me my dear, whether you agree or not, because this is the cold truth. I won't be sympathetic. I have seen so many Armenians respect Turks but get none back. You live in a dream that Turkey might suddenly change in time. That won't happen if drastic and VERY drastic steps aren't taken. No borders will open simply because Turkey won't allow it. You don't understand that it is YOUR country that is taking the wrong steps now, not allowing others to take any steps forward, not Armenia. So stop talking as if it's Armenia that needs to change, its simply a bad joke. Our mistakes now can't even be compared to Turkey's mistakes in the past and in the present.

You want everything to fall into place, Lal, I feel your pain believe me but your country will not allow it. If there was even a 1% chance that Turkey might change or do something, I would accept your offer and wear a T-shirt and cap to endorse you. That's not happening though. If you asked me to do this 30 years back, I might try but it's too late now and I can go fact by fact, pointing out why without even hinting the past, only the present. Please understand me, I understand you and share your feelings.

slowly learning the truth. than an apology by one by, than thousands, than millions, than the state.this is my path. obamas or nationalist armenians or turkish nationalists words ,spouts,cant change my thinking.

What is it they say or do that is so hurtful for you? They accept that the Genocide happened, why do you feel bad? Why are they nationalists? Your path is what many have tried in the past and in very effective ways, something I'm trying right now as we speak, but it didn't work without great steps being taken. You want everything to work out without any problems, slooowwwlllyy, like a snail. You don't realise that very soon, when the new generation which Turkey is spoiling by her own hands, won't listen to reason because all the evidence is being destroyed in Turkey, hate is being filled into the hearts of people. Now, even a year is a set back. There is no question of patience.

also,obviously ı didnt meant turks and azeris feel pain.(maybe azeris have some pain though) thats my poor english. but you also dont have to be so sensitive, right? because you know ım not a denier.

Of course my good friend (I'm not afraid to say the word good, the more we talk properly the better and that's not exactly wrong), but I simply wanted to state the truth at the time. I've heard about that "pain" many times and I didn't want anyone to misunderstand what you said and look at it in different ways, or better put, in the WRONG ways. Armenia is the one in pain and even in the case of the Azeris, they started it, not us. We are in pain, Turkey is in fear, and Azerbaijan simply can't believe how we won the war against them. I'm not happy in any case, there is nothing to be happy about. Its time to move on and with a great push forward because our leaders are taking wrong steps again and I PERSONALLY will not stand and watch my generation make worse mistakes then our forfathers made. You can wait if you want and dream of tourists walking into Turkey with smliles on their faces, hearing an Armenian conductor explain about Turkish sites, statues, etc. You can dream of many things happening, of borders opening up, etc. We're going to make that a reality and not just WAIT for something to happen or go from door to door, helping people see what we mean.

maybe ı am an idiot. nobody likes me, not turks nor armenians.

You are an idiot if you think that way, Lal, a plain and poor idiot. I feel sorry for you if you think anyone here is your enemy. Your mind is your worst enemy.

yeah, did you fire me from education ministry ,my dear?

No, he's simply calling you by your name.

[Alexandros]

That's a sure sign you are right, lal.

Oh really?However here`s a Greek who likes lal.

In all seriousness though, I don`t think there are any Armenians - or for that matter Turks - here on this forum who doesn`t like lal.She`s probably the most friendliest poster here.That doesn`t mean we can have disagreements with each other as long as we are civil, friendly and show respect towards each other everything will be fine.

[lal]

Saco,

you have to respect other peoples opinions.even if they are your enemy, or even if they are wrong.and ım certainly not armenians enemy. people can think differently. little tolarance please!!

ı seperate governments and people. ı dont represent turkeys government. and turkeys government dont represent all turks.there are thousands of people who protest turkish governments politics about many subjects .

when people have contact with each other,they can listen and understand each other.our opinions can change. we can grow bigger .because we are humans. we have feelings.ı didnt know nothing about AG until few years ago.ı taught armenians are our natural enemy. because ı only knew asala and karabağ.

on the other hand,governments dont have feelings. they always act by realpolitics.so turkish government will not accept AG under normal conditions.also No country on earth will force turkey to do that.not france ,not america,no country.unless it is to their benefit to create another iran.

ım not scared or embarassed even a little if obama calls it a genocide. but ı cant be happy either, because usa is unlike you think, considered a very immoral country here. maybe if lets say,sweeden starts a campaign against turkey about AG ,it might be useful.

anyways this is enough from me. ı hope like you say turkey accepts AG in our lifetimes.

[Edoman]

Well said Saco. Your last two posts to Lal represents what is in the heart many Armenians. As much as Lal is trying I don’t think he/she can understand the gravity of the situation.

Armenian tolerance has limits when dealing with extremist elements of Turkish people and their government. Unfortunately there is only one language that these people understand; Wish things were different but they give us no other choice.