Parallel Roads

[ardakilic]

Probably the biggest cause of problems with Islam is the absence of a central control, Christian churches have Catholicos, Popes etc. and councils which set "the rules" . No such central structure exists in Islam, individual imams can preach their own version of the Qoran as they see fit.

For now, you are right. This absence of centrality may cause from both inner-structure of Islam and some historical events.

Islam doesnot predict a distinct clerical system like in Christianity at least in theoretical level.

But there was a Caliph (or Khalifa) till 1924 and by seeing these lack of religious authority leaded Ottomans to form a "council", namely Meclis-i Meshaikh (Parliament of Sheikhs).

However, all religious supreme authorities were abolished in the rule of Kemal, as i said, in 1924.

[bell-the-cat]

Nice question and i felt very happy to answer this.

Majority of Turkish population see this practice unacceptable except a minor Kemalist population.

The difference is that the most that "minority population" will do to offenders is exclude them from whatever buildings or institutions have the restriction. If given a free reign, your "majority population" would stop all women from leaving their houses without being convered in black from head to foot and would feel justified in killing any women breaking that code.
In Iran there are gangs of Islamic religious police who go around beating up any women they consider are "incorrectly" dressed. I remember a news story about 10 years ago from Algeria, I think. A man was standing on a hill above his village, shooting at birds with his rifle. He happened to look down at his house and saw his wife standing in its doorway, her face uncovered for all to see. He was so outraged at this insult to his honour that he turned the gun on her and shot her dead.

The biggest crime of Kemalism is that rather than getting rid of islam when it could, for its own selfish aims it nationalised it and nurtured it.

[ardakilic]

If given a free reign, your "majority population" would stop all women from leaving their houses without being convered in black from head to foot and would feel justified in killing any women breaking that code.

Telling horror stories, realities (of Turkey) cannot be understood. This is the same logic of -for instance- "If Turkish state will allow Christian minorities to practice their religion, they will try to make all Christian" or "If we don't exile Armenians they will divide our country with the help of Russia"...

[bell-the-cat]

Telling horror stories, realities (of Turkey) cannot be understood. This is the same logic of -for instance- "If Turkish state will allow Christian minorities to practice their religion, they will try to make all Christian" or "If we don't exile Armenians they will divide our country with the help of Russia"...

You are the one who does not understand your own country - or maybe you are an Islamist who believes that it is OK to lie and be deceptive if the lies and deceipts further Islam. Islam is completely intollerant of all who do not follow the strictest interpretation of the Koran - so it does not matter how many Christians there are: if there is only one - that is one too many and to allow him/her to continue living amongst Muslims is an affront to Islam.

[bell-the-cat]

Probably the biggest cause of problems with Islam is the absence of a central control, Christian churches have Catholicos, Popes etc. and councils which set "the rules" . No such central structure exists in Islam, individual imams can preach their own version of the Qoran as they see fit.

I'm sure Osama would agree with that. Restoration of the Caliphate is THE core aim of Islamists.

[ardakilic]

You are the one who does not understand your own country - or maybe you are an Islamist who believes that it is OK to lie and be deceptive if the lies and deceipts further Islam. Islam is completely intollerant of all who do not follow the strictest interpretation of the Koran - so it does not matter how many Christians there are: if there is only one - that is one too many and to allow him/her to continue living amongst Muslims is an affront to Islam.

Bolds are mine.

I totally reject and return your insults.

Your hate about Islam may be based on some religious or philosophical considerations. Till the beginning, i insistently say the same: In a democratic country, university students have to have the right to choose what they want to wear.

[Sako]

True, I only remember a few Muslim kings that were truly great. They had great relations with Armenians and truly kept everything under control. If only they still existed.

The problem Arda is that since Islam is already very serious along with its followers, some extremists can alter a verse or sorto interpret the Koran in a different way and get people fired up. Everyone is almost stricken with fear sometimes, trying to follow exactly what the Koran says so nothing wrong happens and extremists use that as an advantage. It's really messed up sometimes Arda.

And guys, please, if you want to talk about this for awhile, let's start a new thread. This is a broad subject.

[ardakilic]

I'm sure Osama would agree with that. Restoration of the Caliphate is THE core aim of Islamists.

Is Sevan Nishanian an Islamist or follower of Ladin?

False Republic: 51 Questions About Ataturk and Kemalism, Sevan Nishanian, Kirmizi Yayinlari, 2nd edition, pp. 275-302.

[ardakilic]

True, I only remember a few Muslim kings that were truly great. They had great relations with Armenians and truly kept everything under control. If only they still existed.

The problem Arda is that since Islam is already very serious along with its followers, some extremists can alter a verse or sorto interpret the Koran in a different way and get people fired up. Everyone is almost stricken with fear sometimes, trying to follow exactly what the Koran says so nothing wrong happens and extremists use that as an advantage. It's really messed up sometimes Arda.

And guys, please, if you want to talk about this for awhile, let's start a new thread. This is a broad subject.

Saco, i am really tired and sick about this kind of reductionism.

Reduce all Muslims to blood-thirsty butchers, reduce all women wearing headscarf to bigots, reduce all gays to immoral prostitutes coming from Sodome, reduce Christians, reduce communists, reduce Armenians, reduce everything to what you want... Somebody should help me!

[Sako]

Arda, believe it or not, I'm tired of having everyone riding in the wrong direction. Can we start something and finish it the way we intended? Bell might be saying a few things wrong but the truth is there is a lot mixed up in the Muslim culture. Blaming and reducing everyone won't help though, I completely agree but doubt that everything we were saying was reducing Islam.

Tell me what you need help with and I'll try to help Arda but let's stay on topic and this won't happen. This is the second/third time I'm trying to start something and the conversation goes somewhere else. Guys, please, this really shows we can't do anything together. We just talk in the air.