Parallel Roads

[ardakilic]

armenian will consider our great leader Atatürk as a criminal genocider enemy. no turk ,let the state aside can ever accept this.excluding few extremest and terrorists ,like we have one here.

If those words are for me, please take them back.

I am not terrorist or extremist. When i critisize Kemal, even i am not based on democracy. The only thing i lean is ancient humanity values: justice, opposing against tiranny...

I only asked a simple question related to AG:

- Why Kemal sheltered and protected AG commiters?

[Sako]

well, my humble person is not so controversial on this forum, dont you think you kinda exagerated?

Nope, I said that because your sparking a fire. You know that people are pissed and it's almost as if your BEGGING for hot conversations to take place with some of your posts. Sorry Vahe Jan, that's the truth. Not everyone will understand you the way you want them to so let's cut down the mini-lines and sarcastic phrases, they don't help us, only make it worse. Sorry if I talked out of place.

Saco,

the only reason ı continue to write here is, joseph still doesnt ban me and you still encourage me to continue to write. but ı believe that ı contribute to this site . it must be interesting to read my contradictions.because ı honestly show all characteristics of a typical turk(except my hatered towards islam). ı know who armenians are, ı know how they contributed to ottomans for centuries, ı know that armenians are not terrorists , but contributes to the society they live in , and ı know armenians never deserved to be totally destroyed by turks.you see ı never conradicted myself about my above words.

Why should we ban you? Stop feeling confused or fearful, come into the light. No one hates you here. Think about what you say though and especially HOW you say it. We are all sensetive here, it's not just you.

ı also claimed many times that ı am disgusted with religons and nationalizm and ı wanted loose borders, ı wanted armenians back in anatolia,open borders etc.it is, this part ı contradict myself many times. sometimes ı write friendly and many times ı write the opposite.
there are many reasons for this. when they ask me who am ı. how do ı answer. ı say ı am a turk right? if ı am a turk ,ı need to like turks. when ı look at the mirror to myself, ı need to see a beautiful person.No?for example your family can be not so good, but you cant turn your back to them.right? they are your family. this is something like that.

Lal, I will say this as simply as possible, read very carefully.

First off, you don't "NEED" to do anything. You are confused of your identity and I think I know how to help you. Forget about age and simply read on, CAREFULLY, if you really want something to change.

Do you think that I love EVERYTHING about my people, my past, my country, etc.? Do you think I HAVE TO no matter what love EVERYTHING about my country? NO, I don't. Whatever I do I do because deep down, I feel great doing it. I don't do anything because I HAVE TO. I am a person before anything else, Lal, before even being an Armenian. I that's why have the ability to judge EVERYONE , even my own family, with an equal eye. If, for example, my little brother does something wrong in school or hurts some kid that didn't deserve to get hit, he will answer to ME and believe it or not, I will not forgive him in any way. I will MAKE him apologize for what he did and teach HIM a lessen, not the kid that fought back to defend himself. My family will be more respected that way, my brother won't become a stupid punk in the future, and I will know that I was fair and just, not to mention a good, older brother. In the same way, if my country does something stupid, you think I'll support it? Of course I will, but I won't support the people that made the mistakes. My country and my people don't cherish the same place in my heart. My country is almost spiritual to me.

My people though, they are another case. I love them, more then anyone out there but I know that they are only human and will mistakes, just like any other person on this planet, so for that reason, I am prepared for the worst. I can't love everyone equally. There are so many criminals, so many stupid politicians, so many wrong leaders. They have no place in my heart. I don't even consider them ARMENIANS, I consider them traitors. I consider them as vampires that suck the life, feelings, and patience out of my people and they are no different then the Turks that killed all my people in 1915. An enemy is bad but an enemy from within is even worse.

So Lal, by making my brother apologize (which I explained above), will I be disrespecting my family? Or will my family respect me more and look up to me? You say I have to love my people but you don't have to put up with everything they do. See what I'm saying? The problem with you is that you don't get any respect or support after you take steps forward and don't see the meaning of taking any steps forward after that because your fellow Turks will hate you more instead of supporting you. My family supports me for scolding my brother, your family doesn't if you take the right step . I'm really sorry Lal for that. That's why you say things like "I must still love my family". YOU ARE WRONG though. By walking down the road of justice, you set an example and help your family MORE then if you simply stand by their side. They won't understand you at first but soon, in time, they will understand why you took those "wrong" steps. The real Turks, the bad ones, make you think that by facing all that's happened, you will be a bad Turk or will disrespect your country. That is how the wolves trap the sheep. This is their way of making you feel alone and inferior. YOU ARE NOT ALONE, LAL no matter what ANYONE says to you.

You still must love your family, your country, like you said, but you must not make the mistakes they make. You are LAL, not your family. You are part of your family but you are an individual person. Love and respect yourself a bit. You must stand your ground, be firm in your thoughts, be fearless (but careful) and not let ANYONE, including your own family members or fellow Turks, make you feel small.

If I don't support some things my country does will that make me LESS Armenian? Hell no. It will make me a BETTER Armenian. My country is not to blame if a few retards make mistakes, it is THEY that should be blamed. I love my country but support those that DESERVE TO BE SUPPORTED, not everyone. You make it sound as if you must love all Turks. A country is not your family, Lal. All it's citizens aren't your relatives. They are just other Turks with their own habits and problems. In school, there are many kids but are ALL your kids your friends? NO but when people ask you who you are and where you learn, you say you learn at this or that school. You are a Turk but individual Turk. You are not a part of everyone else. You can make your own choices, and you must. No one can or should make them for you.

Your country (school) is what defines you and your actions make it more respectful or disrespectful. By saying no to the wrong actions and yes to the right actions, you bring up the Turkish flag along with it's honor. You love your country more that way. You don't live in heaven Lal, all countries make mistakes. Do not selfishly support your country NO MATTER WHAT, that doesn't make you a patriot. It shows how much of a nationalist you are. Love your country but be careful of it's citizens because they can breath. Your country isn't a person Lal, no one blames your country or asks you to hate your country. So many have ruined countries up by talking about their honor forgetting that real honor comes through proper actions, that is true patriotism and makes people look at your country more proudly.

but ı am a turk at the bottom. even if ı dislike very much the turkish states politics, ı still love my country. for example , ı hate islam, but ı belong to a muslim culture. even if ı hate it, ı feel pain when muslims are attacked by israelis or americans a little more than other crualities to nonmuslims.

Am I asking you to not feel pain Lal . What you say is natural. Regarding Islam, you have a choice there, at least in a free country you do, I don't know about Turkey. Again, when it comes to Islam, if a muslim suicide bomber blows up a building, will you feel pain for him? Of course not. You will be sentimental if you do. In Islam, in a country, ANYWHERE, there are always good and bad people and you must be able to differentiate. If your fellow Turks jump off a hill, will you join them?

dont expect me to join to a chorus of cursing,degrading ataturk and accepting all the demands of your people. ı wont.never!

Lal, you can love Ataturk but don't expect everyone else to as well. I know little about him but I know that he has done a lot of bad things along with all the good things he's done. I don't pick sides though, I don't harrass anyone, I don't FORCE anyone or call them traitors if they don't like Ataturk. He was a man just like everyone else and he naturally made many mistakes. Don't turn Ataturk into a Turkish idol. Only God should be your idol.

And regarding your aggressive mood and words, I'd like to just say that whether or not you or anyone likes it, Turkey is going to face cold hard Justice, no matter how painful it may feel. If you can love your country to the point that justice comes SECOND, I can love my country more then you and place justice FIRST. My country deserves it. You have a problem with that dear? After the Genocide issue is cleared though, Armenia is my next target. Armenians will have to face EVERYTHING that's happened as well. I will feel better and do a great service to my country that way. Armenia is not more privelaged then Turkey.

armenians in armenia like yourself, armenians in turkey and diaspora armenians who left turkey recently and some part of turkish people who accept the pasts mistakes, sincerely want to hug each other. but armenians who left turkey long time ago and became american armenians,french armenians or lebenese armenians and the nationalist turks denying the past, really dont want any kind of reconciliations.they will not let this happen untill they beat the other side completely. they have no limits, no grey areas.

Typical Turkish words. Forget about this Lal, you are wrong. If Turkey takes a step forward, we will take many more. Armenians are changing, don't worry. It's time for Turkey to change. When we see nothing being done, it's like throwing gasoline on a bonfire. We become extremely mad and become extreme. We aren't these demons your people make us look like.

armenian will consider our great leader Atatürk as a criminal genocider enemy. no turk ,let the state aside can ever accept this.excluding few extremest and terrorists ,like we have one here.
so, things are easier for people who want this hatred to go on.

You have a problem with opinion dear? Maybe Vahe and a few people here went a bit extreme but those are just opinions. The problem is that you IDOLIZE Ataturk no matter what he was.

my anger comes from the bad words towards ataturk.you have to understand this.if ı say ı deny AG,you will feel horrible,it is the same for me. he is my hero. he is turks hero. this is not necassaraly kemalizm. he is the symbol of our foundation. hiding the facts of past has nothing to do with ataturk. ataturk did what he had to do in his time. he spent his all life for an ideal.ı am sure if ataturk was alive today,he would not continue the same politics . conditions are changing every moment. time dont stay the same.you need to change politics.he would apologise from the armenians officially. he would force azeri and armenian to make peace. he would open the borders.he would constitue a confederation of armenia,azerbeycan, turkey. he would invite all armenians left turkey back. he would join christmas celebrations. ataturk was a very forward thinking genius. he would do everything possible we dream among us,today.he was not an idiot like all the other leaders came after him. inönü and all of the others ,ı have no respect them.they turned our beautiful country into a burnt out hell. they are the ones costituted this fachist history, full of lies. they tortured the christians and sent all of them away by using pschologic methods without any reasons, not atatürk. if ataturk was alive, he would have kept the remaining hundreds of thousand of christians in the country and use them as a positive advantage for turkeys relationships with the western world.

He might've done a lot of things now but we will never know. How can you be so sure that he was so great? I know books that make Stalin look like an Angel although he was a demon, Lal . If you read that book though, you would think he was a great handsome man with a hot mustache.

Will not say that ı am sorry for anything ı wrote. this is your site . and if you ban me, ı can go away. no problem.ı already wrote everything ı wanted to. what can ı add new?ı only wrote what ı think and what ı feel. otherwise it wouldnt be interesting. and when ı say ''ermenileri seviyıorum'', ı mean it. but near future dont look so bright to me.

You know why it doesn't look bright? Because you don't allow it to be bright. You are so clouded, so afraid, so sad, so confused ... so alone, that's why you feel this way. I'm sorry Lal, you'll have to find your way out of this mess but believe it or not, it is YOU that allows all this to happen. Stop feeling down, stop taking the weight of the world on your shoulders. YOU DON'T NEED TO. We're all here, we're all trying our best Lal, it's not just you against all the problems. Feel free, loosen up, RELAX, and don't let anyone make you feel inferior. You are a good person before anything else, be proud of how far you and we all have come instead of looking at how far we still have to go.

Peace .

[VaheTheGreat(e)]

Nope, I said that because your sparking a fire. You know that people are pissed and it's almost as if your BEGGING for hot conversations to take place with some of your posts. Sorry Vahe Jan, that's the truth. Not everyone will understand you the way you want them to so let's cut down the mini-lines and sarcastic phrases, they don't help us, only make it worse. Sorry if I talked out of place.

Common kid, don’t you get bored 24/7 curving the same ideas in multipage posts which no one reads? Don’t you have life? In your age I loved to play football with other kids, chaise girls * if you like boys so chaise boys LOL)go to disco .
Do you know what "graphomania" is? It is not a good thing. It is when some one has unhealthy need to write, doesn’t meter what. Kid, I am glad you are interested in our cause, but see it is not good to spend 24/7 in front of PC. Tack a brak. Think on what I said. And one more advice: never teach others what to do, it makes you to look stupid. Just a friendly advice.

[Sako]

Common kid, don’t you get bored 24/7 curving the same ideas in multipage posts which no one reads? Don’t you have life? In your age I loved to play football with other kids, chaise girls * if you like boys so chaise boys LOL)go to disco .

Nah, I think I'll just go after girls. Getting back to point, Vahe, not everyone's like you and what makes you think I don't do anything else? And when I curve the same ideas I don't do it because I like to, I do it because I think I can help in some way. Trying is what matters, not how many people will read what you say. And I'm saying this again Vahe Jan, time, place, and circumstance must be taken into account. It may look normal but the forums have become more sensetive lately and one of your sarcastic phrases could make Lal or some other people more upset then they already are. That's all that I was saying, think what you will.

Do you know what "graphomania" is? It is not a good thing. It is when some one has unhealthy need to write, doesn’t meter what.

Lol, unhealthy need to write? You clearly don't get how fast I type. Thanks for worrying though.

Kid, I am glad you are interested in our cause, but see it is not good to spend 24/7 in front of PC. Tack a brak.

Vahe, you don't know half about me, what are you talking about? And I'm not just interested in my countries cause, I'm trying to get something done. If you feel bad seeing long posts, don't read them, I wasn't even talking to you, I was talking to Lal who's on the verge of misunderstanding us really badly. That matters to me.

Think on what I said. And one more advice: never teach others what to do, it makes you to look stupid. Just a friendly advice.

A person can learn from anyone Vahe, anyone, even a dog . And I wasn't teaching you, I was giving you advice. Think what you will. You seriously have the wrong picture of me.

[lal]

This has provoked responses from members who are then banned because lal cries "wolf" and we seem to fall for those feminine charms, who knows she may actually be Abdul in a beard and kaftan!

feminine charms????

what do you mean by this? is this site appropriate for such things.is this an insult? do you think ı am searching an armenian to merry? you are a discriminative person. we have lots of your types here. you think one sex is inferiour to another. here, our brains talk to each other. we dont see each other. and we must have no reason to lie to each other unless we have sick brains ofcourse.it is not important what sex we are, it is important how we can bring peace to this world. ı dont write in any other forums in internet. ı also think that this is a waste of time. but for some reason this armenian problem is stuck into my brain,and ı cant get rid of it. ı am trying to solve it as a person.
ı also like to wear kaftan which is a beautiful kind of dress. do you wear kaftan also?

Abdul

[Steph]

feminine charms????

what do you mean by this? is this site appropriate for such things.is this an insult? do you think ı am searching an armenian to merry? you are a discriminative person. we have lots of your types here. you think one sex is inferiour to another. here, our brains talk to each other. we dont see each other. and we must have no reason to lie to each other unless we have sick brains ofcourse.it is not important what sex we are, it is important how we can bring peace to this world. ı dont write in any other forums in internet. ı also think that this is a waste of time. but for some reason this armenian problem is stuck into my brain,and ı cant get rid of it. ı am trying to solve it as a person.
ı also like to wear kaftan which is a beautiful kind of dress. do you wear kaftan also?

Abdul

I mean that members of this forum are giving you much opportunity to research & learn about the subject which "is stuck in your brain.". The amount of consideration you're given seems to be more than a man might receive. If you see this as an insult, lal, it says more about you than anyone else.
On a scale for insults, I think it would come pretty well below your supercilious ottoman/kemalist advice to Armenians to "learn how to behave" .
I think perhaps you should re-read all your posts and consider editing sections after you've decided what exactly you believe in, what you believe to be true.
As for me being a discriminative person, you don't know me at all, you have no idea.
However, you seem to have already pigeon-holed members into categories such as discriminators, terrorists,traitors etc. it's hilarious.
And some of you language, ie, "we have lots of your types here", straight out of "The Secret Policeman's Training Manual".

[Sako]

feminine charms????

what do you mean by this? is this site appropriate for such things.is this an insult? do you think ı am searching an armenian to merry? you are a discriminative person. we have lots of your types here. you think one sex is inferiour to another. here, our brains talk to each other. we dont see each other. and we must have no reason to lie to each other unless we have sick brains ofcourse.it is not important what sex we are, it is important how we can bring peace to this world. ı dont write in any other forums in internet. ı also think that this is a waste of time. but for some reason this armenian problem is stuck into my brain,and ı cant get rid of it. ı am trying to solve it as a person.
ı also like to wear kaftan which is a beautiful kind of dress. do you wear kaftan also?

Abdul

Another misunderstanding. He just meant that we were giving you a lot of attention and naturally, you are a girl so we seem to act more understandingly when we talk to you. That is good, not bad. Please Lal, relax. I keep saying this but you just read what you want to. I bet you didn't even read everything I said. There was nothing hard to understand there. If you were a boy, we would talk differently with you.

[lal]

I mean that members of this forum are giving you much opportunity to research & learn about the subject which "is stuck in your brain.". The amount of consideration you're given seems to be more than a man might receive. If you see this as an insult, lal, it says more about you than anyone else.
On a scale for insults, I think it would come pretty well below your supercilious ottoman/kemalist advice to Armenians to "learn how to behave" .
I think perhaps you should re-read all your posts and consider editing sections after you've decided what exactly you believe in, what you believe to be true.
As for me being a discriminative person, you don't know me at all, you have no idea.
However, you seem to have already pigeon-holed members into categories such as discriminators, terrorists,traitors etc. it's hilarious.
And some of you language, ie, "we have lots of your types here", straight out of "The Secret Policeman's Training Manual".

ı was going to edit that part. but the post is already completely erased by the boss. ı shouldnt have written that. ı want to be considered like averybody else, not by my sex here.but is there any site where armenian women write? ı want to do something in real life, a peaceful friendly armenians and turks must get together and start a dialog. and this must be shown on tvs to have positive images. we need to move towards each other. somehow?

abdul

[Sako]

Lal no matter where you go, if you say some of the things you said here, people will not reply sweetly. Dialogue won't be possible unless we know how to talk. Sex has absolutely nothing to do with anything here. I didn't know you were a girl for a long time but because I saw you were a bit confused, I relaxed and took it easy. What you say matters here, not whether you are a girl or boy.

[lal]

Lal no matter where you go, if you say some of the things you said here, people will not reply sweetly. Dialogue won't be possible unless we know how to talk. Sex has absolutely nothing to do with anything here. I didn't know you were a girl for a long time but because I saw you were a bit confused, I relaxed and took it easy. What you say matters here, not whether you are a girl or boy.

okay thank you all for your patience towards me for so long.
after so long posts ,ı came to the point that, turks and armenians may not be able to solve the problems politically. instead, we,people must move towards each other . for example we can have armenian and turkish women civil organizations helping people who need help both in armenia and turkey. we can arrange armenian turist tours to eastern anatolia and let the press
show this on tvs. more and extensive cultural activities.things like this.

an armenian who doesnt demand the recognition of AG in the first place(ofcourse although he believes to that) and a turk who apologises for the AG must not be considered as traitors in their countries. we must move at least this much .

if we can somehow create better images of armenian and turk, it may be possible to solve the problem.