Parallel Roads

[VaheTheGreat(e)]

Being just and keeping secret is much more though for honest people.

No it is not. It is just a way of life....

[lal]

lal, you accuse arda of hating himself, your posts all carry one significant thread, your own self-loathing, many people here have tried to help you with this, but quite typically you spurn this help.
You worship at the altar of ataturk, how modern that makes you seem.
You link the need to consider human rights to turkey's current and vague wish to please the EU for possible entry. You claim there were no human rights in the 1920s, it follows that there would be no human rights in the decades before. That makes sense in your logic. No need to apologise, recognise the Genocide but because those days were different, no apology.
Your claim about the righteousness of ataturk, arda makes many links to his deeds, whose troops entered and destroyed Smyrna? Whose troops annihilated first the Armenians then the Greeks of Smyrna? ataturk may have not been physically there, but they were his troops.
Lastly, you revert to type with your insults and threats to a forum member, enough to get others banned. You call any anti-kemalist a traitor, if not a traitor then at least he must be a terrorist, you threaten to turn his face into a monkey, is this a type of ape?
To cap it all, because he has discourse of an intelligent nature, you save your biggest insult to last.........he must be an Armenian dashnak!!!!!!!!!!!!! That really is precious and your true face is open to all.
You end most of your posts with a quasi-hippy wish for peace and love with no idea of how to achieve this and with no intention of listening to or considering of others ideas to reach this goal.

steph, my dear

what do you really want turkish people to do about AG? as a fiirst step,must we admit that ATATURK, the founder of turkish republic is an evil genocider ?

or ,if we put it this way, do you think turks who feel sympathy to armenian cause today are at the same time must naturally be against the foundation of turkish republic?

and what does your intelligent friend offer for the acceptence of AG by the turks? how does he contributre to your rightoues demands of acceptence of AG in real life?

you may like it or not. but at least ı propose something. even if they are quassi-hippy wishes. we already did something by the protest of hrant and signing an apology. we are now a new factor in this country. everybody knows that there are turks who are ashamed of the destruction of armenian culture.

next step is coming. churches will be repaired more and more, first armenian radio than the tv will start. than another football match. than borders will be opened. trade,turizm will start both sides. we will have joint factories,banks.turkey will start helping armenia.more exchange of music, theatres. no visa,history books will be rewritten about armenians,one day a turk will make a dramatic movie of AG which will be the open admittance of it by the turks.

and one day we will be surprised to realise that we love each other. there may be no need to an open apologise by the state. because everything will be done for the armenians to forgive us.

ı am not too ramantic. this will happen before ı die. and ı will work for this actively untill ı die.

lal

[ardakilic]

and what does your intelligent friend offer for the acceptence of AG by the turks? how does he contributre to your rightoues demands of acceptence of AG in real life?

Thanks for the compliment.

I dont have to tell what i do for my political causes nor i dont have to persuade you that i am a freedom-fighter.

If the aim is confrontation of the past, to admit one and avoid others isnot fair and logical. This conclusion is only valid if you recognize it is a crime.

[Gavur]

She is not banned because, unlike you or Steph or Gavur or Crusader, she is valuable. She is what this forum is for (or, more correctly, this forum finds a genuine purpose through people like her).

Go back to your catnap.

[imported_crusader1492]

This is the internet, full of internet tough guys - in the real world most of them squeek like mice.

BTW, get yourself a new boyfriend, lal, one that can treasure all of your opinions - if you can't talk completely freely with a person that should be closer to you than anyone else in the world, then what's the point.

Please stick to the subject and quit wooing every female that joins this forum with your cyber 'knight in shining armor' routine. Your overt horniness detracts from what little credibility you have...plus it's creepy.

[lal]

I don't believe a word you say,imposter infiltrator.By any chance I'm wrong (hardly unlikly) I give my vote to rescind and reject your so called signatures of sympathy.

why do you say this to me. because ı reject ,totally destruction of turkey in turn of accepting the genocide? you may not like my opinions. but it will be difficult to find turks who can 100% ally with your views.and this means we will be enemies forever.this is a choice though .

you see, ı noticed that it is very easy to get a negative tension, a fight suddenly between an armenian and a turk in every level and in every condition. first armenian and turk likes each other. they laugh, eat, drink and suddenly a very cold armosphere happens. armenian gets upset, why is he talking and laughing coming close with this criminal who killed her parents and asks to the turk why he denies the genocide. and in return turk answers the same way.

thats why ı offer first to know each other. we must discover that nobody is the satan.we are just ordinary world people. even if there will be lots of armenians and turks who will reject this , the process of accepting the facts and coming close to each other has started. you cant stop it.

peace

[Steph]

steph, my dear

what do you really want turkish people to do about AG? as a fiirst step,must we admit that ATATURK, the founder of turkish republic is an evil genocider ?

lal, let's agree to not discuss ataturk.........Recognition by the turkish people, you already recognise and so do many others. I have no pre-conditions for recognition. But with ataturk we're going round like a dog trying to catch it's tail.

or ,if we put it this way, do you think turks who feel sympathy to armenian cause today are at the same time must naturally be against the foundation of turkish republic?

Quite simply, no.

and what does your intelligent friend offer for the acceptence of AG by the turks? how does he contributre to your rightoues demands of acceptence of AG in real life?

He/she must answer.

you may like it or not. but at least ı propose something. even if they are quassi-hippy wishes. we already did something by the protest of hrant and signing an apology. we are now a new factor in this country. everybody knows that there are turks who are ashamed of the destruction of armenian culture.

I see the hippy thing struck a nerve, it was meant to. By using that I mean that you seem to wish for peace love and world togetherness with no plans for it. Your early posts were calling for a world without borders but your real position is that you are super defensive over turkey.
The protests over Hrant Dink's assasination were tremendous, the signing of the apology likewise and everyone applauds all turks who did one, the other or both.
This is, hopefully, the beginning of a new phase for Anatolia, large oaks from little acorns grow.

next step is coming. churches will be repaired more and more, first armenian radio than the tv will start. than another football match. than borders will be opened. trade,turizm will start both sides. we will have joint factories,banks.turkey will start helping armenia.more exchange of music, theatres. no visa,history books will be rewritten about armenians,one day a turk will make a dramatic movie of AG which will be the open admittance of it by the turks.

Borders will be opened. Villages, towns and cities will called by their original names, mass graves will be located and exhumed. Names of fauna & flora will be changed back to their original and accepted international terms.

and one day we will be surprised to realise that we love each other. there may be no need to an open apologise by the state. because everything will be done for the armenians to forgive us.

ı am not too ramantic. this will happen before ı die. and ı will work for this actively untill ı die. lal

Armenians to forgive turks. turks to forgive turks.
Not romantic lal, work for it.

[bell-the-cat]

steph, my dear

what do you really want turkish people to do about AG?

He doesn't want Turks to do anything. He doesn't want to engage positively with Turkey at all. He is happy with things the way they are. Whatever Turkey does, he will be dissatisfied. Even if he were to set down his demands and you were to accomodate 99% them, he will still hate you (individually and collectively) with a depth you cannot imagine.

I said a while ago that, looking at it overall, I believe this forum doesn't perform a useful function. I now think it is worse than that - it does damage by alienating people. Do you think Lal has a better or a worse opinion about Armenians in general on visiting this forum? Worse, a lot worse, I bet. That doesn't seem to have changed her opinions on the AG, but for others Turks it would have. (And if signing that petition had resulted in some harm coming to her, I'm sure she would have been thinking why did I bother for these spiteful dogs.)

Maybe the whole concept of this forum needs to change? Maybe every post should be in the form of either a question or an answer? If the Armenian Genocide and the numerous issues relating to it really are important, then posts on this forum need to be written with greater care and consideration. Those that can't display the appropriate level of care and consideration for the subject should not be allowed to post here. It shouldn't just be a place where some know-nothing but think they know-it-all persons come to slag off Turkey in general, and anyone who disagrees with them on often the smallest of points.


A thought....
How about making a new subsection to the forum titled "Requests and Contributions". In it, for example, people could post questions, or answers to the questions of others, or post material (text, photos, etc) which relates to the Armenian Genocide and which is unavailable elsewhere, or original news reports or experiences (not stuff copypasted from other websites), or maybe even member-translated documents (from, or into, Turkish, for example). Basically, it would be full of original source material that would not exist if this forum did not exist (making my "this forum doesn't perform a useful function" comment invalid).

[Joseph]

He doesn't want Turks to do anything. He doesn't want to engage positively with Turkey at all. He is happy with things the way they are. Whatever Turkey does, he will be dissatisfied. Even if he were to set down his demands and you were to accomodate 99% them, he will still hate you (individually and collectively) with a depth you cannot imagine.

I said a while ago that, looking at it overall, I believe this forum doesn't perform a useful function. I now think it is worse than that - it does damage by alienating people. Do you think Lal has a better or a worse opinion about Armenians in general on visiting this forum? Worse, a lot worse, I bet. That doesn't seem to have changed her opinions on the AG, but for others Turks it would have. (And if signing that petition had resulted in some harm coming to her, I'm sure she would have been thinking why did I bother for these spiteful dogs.)

Maybe the whole concept of this forum needs to change? Maybe every post should be in the form of either a question or an answer? If the Armenian Genocide and the numerous issues relating to it really are important, then posts on this forum need to be written with greater care and consideration. Those that can't display the appropriate level of care and consideration for the subject should not be allowed to post here. It shouldn't just be a place where some know-nothing but think they know-it-all persons come to slag off Turkey in general, and anyone who disagrees with them on often the smallest of points.


A thought....
How about making a new subsection to the forum titled "Requests and Contributions". In it, for example, people could post questions, or answers to the questions of others, or post material (text, photos, etc) which relates to the Armenian Genocide and which is unavailable elsewhere, or original news reports or experiences (not stuff copypasted from other websites), or maybe even member-translated documents (from, or into, Turkish, for example). Basically, it would be full of original source material that would not exist if this forum did not exist (making my "this forum doesn't perform a useful function" comment invalid).

I do not disagree with your message above but I also think that you often add fuel to the fire and you even admit that I think. You have valuable insights to share but lack patience and often choose to alienate people; you are not the only one.


Nevertheless, the amount of fighting, name calling, insults, etc on this site is staggering.

There are so many things we can all discuss, learn, share if we are willing to give thoughtful pause before we post or respond.

[bell-the-cat]

I do not disagree with your message above but I also think that you often add fuel to the fire and you even admit that I think. You have valuable insights to share but lack patience and often choose to alienate people; you are not the only one.

Sure, yes I have admitted it, and said that it gives only limited satisfaction, partly because the targets are such easy targets, but mostly because I still hope this forum through its contributers can do positive things. So, actually, I have a lot of patience - if I hadn't I'd have been gone years ago!

Nevertheless, the amount of fighting, name calling, insults, etc on this site is staggering.

There are so many things we can all discuss, learn, share if we are willing to give thoughtful pause before we post or respond.

How about my "Requests and Contributions" idea for a subsection for the forum? And maybe take a fresh look at all the forum's subsections and their purposes. Perhaps we should start a new thread on this theme, to explore new ideas and directions. Though, since it is "your" forum, you should probably be the one to start things rolling.