What should Turkey be proud of?

[Haykakan]

Re: What should Turkey be proud of?

I dont have the time for a long winded responce like yours may but lets honestly discuss your points and for all our sakes please lets keep it short sweet and simple.
Seljuk architecture is worth seeing and visiting.
You gotta be kinnding right? Honestly how many tourists come there to just see seljuk architecture?If thats what your tourism industry was based on it simply would't exist and you know it.
Turkey's secular stance has a long way before flushed. I have worries as well, tough.
You should have worries as do i.The last think i want is a even more fanatic turkey.
Ottoman Empire, when its mighty arm was maybe the mightiest in its history, opened her gates to Sephardic xxxs who were about go extinct at the hands of fellow christian kings. Not much changed after the mighty arm weakened, and Turkey was the ONLY country in Europe that had guts to accept xxxish people escaping from Holocaust. A courage to be proud of, huh?

By the way, "so many" is how many?
Funny how turcks choose so conveniently to ignore their ottoman history when it suites them then all of a sudden embrace it when they see something they like.You cant have it both ways sorry.Funny you mention the xxxs that is a real good one lets go to turckey now and see how they safe and comfortable they are feeling.
Please let me know a country that did not try to expand in history, or expanded it via peaceful talks with the neighbours. Or is it also clearly documented and everybody knows that only Turks expanded in the history and they were the only one that used sword to do it?
Military wars have been fought a long time and that is how countries expand but when russia beat germany in ww2 despite all the people the germans killed it didn't try to kill every last german and try to eradicate all aspects of its history.Even when the germans occupied russia they had a rule if u resist we will kick your ass but if u submit we will spare you and leave you alone.Even towns that resisted were not slaughtered, it was nothing like what the turcks did to us.My grandmother lived through both wars she saw what the turcks did she was there in eastern turckey and she saw what the germans did she was in a german occupied russian city during ww2.Even when swinging the sword there is humanity to it unless it is a turckish sword.
Poet: Nazim Hikmet
Writer: Orhan Pamuk
Painter: Abidin Dino
Musician: Erkan Ogur
Mathematician: Cahit Arf
Chemistry/Biology: Oktay Sinanoğlu
Medicine: Hulusi Behçet
Pamuk basicly wrote exactly what i just said that turcks commited genocide and that turkish history is written with the blood of the people who lived there before the turcks what a good way to prove me right. As for the others all i have to say is they are so well known that i have never heard of them.I am sure no hlusi manuver exists,never heard of the oktay flask,nor have i heard the ogur symphony, never heard of the cafit mathametical formula,maybe dino painted the flinstone cartoons?where is the nazim haicoo?
At your service, Haykakan, non-existence that has been reported, well documented, whispered from ear to ear, has been disproved with first and easiest examples that come to my mind in, say, 15 minutes. Disproving a nonsense/prejudice is way more easy than you can think of.
You need to do way better then this. Seriously man i mentioned a 6th grader can prove me right and your wrong i guess i overestimated you im gona go with a fourth grader and cross my fingers.

[bell-the-cat]

Re: What should Turkey be proud of?

I dont have the time for a long winded responce like yours may but lets honestly discuss your points and for all our sakes please lets keep it short sweet and simple.
Seljuk architecture is worth seeing and visiting.
You gotta be kinnding right? Honestly how many tourists come there to just see seljuk architecture?If thats what your tourism industry was based on it simply would't exist and you know it.
Turkey's secular stance has a long way before flushed. I have worries as well, tough.
You should have worries as do i.The last think i want is a even more fanatic turkey.
Ottoman Empire, when its mighty arm was maybe the mightiest in its history, opened her gates to Sephardic xxxs who were about go extinct at the hands of fellow christian kings. Not much changed after the mighty arm weakened, and Turkey was the ONLY country in Europe that had guts to accept xxxish people escaping from Holocaust. A courage to be proud of, huh?

By the way, "so many" is how many?
Funny how turcks choose so conveniently to ignore their ottoman history when it suites them then all of a sudden embrace it when they see something they like.You cant have it both ways sorry.Funny you mention the xxxs that is a real good one lets go to turckey now and see how they safe and comfortable they are feeling.
Please let me know a country that did not try to expand in history, or expanded it via peaceful talks with the neighbours. Or is it also clearly documented and everybody knows that only Turks expanded in the history and they were the only one that used sword to do it?
Military wars have been fought a long time and that is how countries expand but when russia beat germany in ww2 despite all the people the germans killed it didn't try to kill every last german and try to eradicate all aspects of its history.Even when the germans occupied russia they had a rule if u resist we will kick your ass but if u submit we will spare you and leave you alone.Even towns that resisted were not slaughtered, it was nothing like what the turcks did to us.My grandmother lived through both wars she saw what the turcks did she was there in eastern turckey and she saw what the germans did she was in a german occupied russian city during ww2.Even when swinging the sword there is humanity to it unless it is a turckish sword.
Poet: Nazim Hikmet
Writer: Orhan Pamuk
Painter: Abidin Dino
Musician: Erkan Ogur
Mathematician: Cahit Arf
Chemistry/Biology: Oktay Sinanoğlu
Medicine: Hulusi Behçet
Pamuk basicly wrote exactly what i just said that turcks commited genocide and that turkish history is written with the blood of the people who lived there before the turcks what a good way to prove me right. As for the others all i have to say is they are so well known that i have never heard of them.I am sure no hlusi manuver exists,never heard of the oktay flask,nor have i heard the ogur symphony, never heard of the cafit mathametical formula,maybe dino painted the flinstone cartoons?where is the nazim haicoo?
At your service, Haykakan, non-existence that has been reported, well documented, whispered from ear to ear, has been disproved with first and easiest examples that come to my mind in, say, 15 minutes. Disproving a nonsense/prejudice is way more easy than you can think of.
You need to do way better then this. Seriously man i mentioned a 6th grader can prove me right and your wrong i guess i overestimated you im gona go with a fourth grader and cross my fingers.

There's no danger of me overestimating you. You display your ignorance as if it were a merit badge.

Do you think if you gave a list of Armenian cultural personalities - Armenians who lived in or are living in Armenia - the average non-Armenian will have heard of any of them? Or of any of the other things you think makes Armenia world famous?

But may is right - this thread is a joke, an unfunny one. I do think Saco had a serious and positive intent in starting it, but even in its beginning - in its chosen title - it failed.

[Hellektor]

Re: What should Turkey be proud of?

Second, a non-existence cannot be documented. It can be stated to be non-existent until one shows a case where it exists.

WTF???

Seljuk architecture is worth seeing and visiting.

WTF??? Oh, you might mean the turkified churches or what?

Turkey's secular stance has a long way before flushed. I have worries as well, tough.

It’s worthless and superficial. You have no idea of secularism. It’s about rather fascist, militarily imposed shallow, cosmetic artifacts.

Ottoman Empire, when its mighty arm was maybe the mightiest in its history, opened her gates to Sephardic xxxs who were about go extinct at the hands of fellow christian kings.

For Kemal’s sake not again!!! Do you have done any other positive thing worthy of mentioning in the five bloody hundred years and some after that one off event? This is the fallacy Jews throw at us when they want to smear the Europeans as having been intolerant and when they want to deny the Armenian Genocide.

Not much changed after the mighty arm weakened, and Turkey was the ONLY country in Europe that had guts to accept xxxish people escaping from Holocaust. A courage to be proud of, huh?

What clever trickery to gain Judeo-Saxon sympathy… Haven’t you heard of the Struma disaster? Ashkale concentration camps in Turkey in WWII? Dirty dealings with Von Papen? The ultra-fascist-racist Bozkurt magazine printed from 1939 to 1942 in “neutral” Turkey? I have gone deeply into the bravery of the Armenian nation and the coward dealings of Turkey with Nazis during WWII in my And the Fraud Had a Name, mainly in the ““Armenians did not win, it was the Russians” lie” section. We are not fooled.

Please let me know a country that did not try to expand in history, or expanded it via peaceful talks with the neighbours. Or is it also clearly documented and everybody knows that only Turks expanded in the history and they were the only one that used sword to do it?

Fallacious!!! It’s like a psychopathic mass murderer wailing: “The guy who lives in the other street also killed someone, why are you arresting me?” You are not a country. You did not expand your country. Not a single square nanometer of the land you call Turkey (including fake “Azerbaijan”) belongs to you. You stole it all, through most barbaric annihilation of the locals.

Poet: Nazim Hikmet
Writer: Orhan Pamuk
Painter: Abidin Dino
Musician: Erkan Ogur
Mathematician: Cahit Arf
Chemistry/Biology: Oktay Sinanoğlu
Medicine: Hulusi Behçet
...

Never heard of any one of them except for Pamuk because of obvious reasons. No big deal. Where are your Homers, Aristotles, Platos, Pythagorases, Shakespeares, Miltons, Coleridges, Beethovens, Mozarts, Bachs, Chopins, Leonardos, Michelangelos, Ferdowsis, Hafezes, Khayyams, Ibn Sinas, Razis, Rembrandts, Edisons, Marconi s, etc.?

On top of it, a culture of a country/empire is a collective culture. If we are talking about the Ottoman Empire, that culture reflects Turks, Greeks, Armenians and all others. Likewise, the culture in Armenia is not free of influence from its neighbours. I gave my examples in the racist path that you paves, as if having a Turkish gene/blood (whatever it means) gives those people the ability to become successful. I am really really ashamed. Truly.

Most stinking fallacious argumentation that reveals your mindset in stealing other peoples’ achievements: civilized nations lived in the land you have usurped and reduced to ruins. None of it has anything to do with you. You are right to really, really be ashamed. Truly.

And one thing, give that term racist a break. It’s not about race. You are not a race. I don’t say this to offend. The real Turk race is in Kyrgyzstan, Uzbekistan, Uyguristan, Mongolia, etc., not in Turkey or fake “Azerbaijan”. Your appearance is the screaming proof of your genocidal, intolerant, bloodthirsty, parasitical, inhuman policies towards the indigenous peoples of the land you have stolen and desecrated into the backward shithole it is at the present.

I am not interested in your sources of pride. I am not interested in your “achievements”. I am not interested in your fallacious argumentation, typicaily Turkish and heard a million times. Therefore, for the millionth time I copy/paste from my mega text file:

We were living in our home since the beginning of history, minding our business though being invaded by Assyrians, Persians, Romans and Arabs among others. Until the day YOU came...

From the first moment and since the ill day you set your paws this side of the Caspian in early 11th century and crushed the cradles of human civilization under your filthy cloven hoofs, you gave us nothing but death, destruction, subjugation, terror, rape, slavery, stealing of women and children, pillage, plunder and genocide and that for a thousand years.

In return we gave you everything: we built your goddamn “empire”, fought your wars in form of janissary, ran your economy, our farmers fed your lazy, hairless Tatar asses, we provided you with genes to lose your Mongoloid features, we pioneered every single western idea in the fields of art, philosophy, politics, culture, etc. in Ottoman Turkey, we built your mosques and palaces where your filthy sultans raped our women and in the end when you thought you didn't need us anymore, you gave us genocide for thank you.

I usually speak for myself, here I make an exception: we want our home back and we don’t want you in it. Pack your folding and non-folding tents and your cattle too, get the hell out of my home, back to Mongolia the hell you came from and the hell you belong.

[Haykakan]

Re: What should Turkey be proud of?

Well. Hi.
If you won't be mad I'd be glad to explain myself as a turk. I actually didn't come here to discuss anything about turkish-armenian relations or about the whole genocide stuff and such, but I just wanted to see what armenians sound like. I usually met a few in youtube and such, as you know, there is some sort of a war going on there, or did, since we banned youtube and usually do not have a chance to log on and start flame wars. There, we had a mutually hostile relationship, and called eachother names back and forth, was very amusing, though, one sometimes wants to really wonders, "well, who are these armenians anyway.".
So I came here to talk with a few of you, of course I originally intented to hide my identity and usually go through with all of it, but I got bored of it eventually.
So, you ask, what do we have to be proud of. Well, we do have stuff to be proud of just like you do. Is that so hard to figure?

No need to hide your identity no one is going to hurt you for being born a turck, most of the armenian posters here are not racist.And please feel free to list some turkish accomplishments.As for armenian accomplishments we would need a whole new forum.

[Haykakan]

Re: What should Turkey be proud of?

There's no danger of me overestimating you. You display your ignorance as if it were a merit badge.

Do you think if you gave a list of Armenian cultural personalities - Armenians who lived in or are living in Armenia - the average non-Armenian will have heard of any of them? Or of any of the other things you think makes Armenia world famous?

But may is right - this thread is a joke, an unfunny one. I do think Saco had a serious and positive intent in starting it, but even in its beginning - in its chosen title - it failed.

It is only a joke becaus you and other turcks treat it as such.There was no assumptions made by the guy who started this thread, it was a simple question and no one asnwered it.I wonder why.How the hell is the title failed?Hell you dont even need to be armenian to know famous armenians i can fart and a dozen names will pop out for you.I mean seriously if a guy finds this title offensive then how can you talk to someone like that?Wtf is it with turcks being offended at every xxxxin little thing yet these idiots expect us to forget about a little genocide.My god and he calls me ignorent? Seriously man i am offended this is like a crime im gona throw article 301 at u lol!

[konachan]

Re: What should Turkey be proud of?

No need to hide your identity no one is going to hurt you for being born a turck, most of the armenian posters here are not racist.And please feel free to list some turkish accomplishments.As for armenian accomplishments we would need a whole new forum.

Well, first of all, you have to be more specific.
Are you looking for accomplishments of turks during the periods of;
-Republic of Turkey
-Ottoman Empire
-Seljuk Empire
-Oghuz Turks
Hmmm?
I'd like to say that it would be unfair to leave turks without credit for laying the foundations of an empire that spanned over three continents, whereas the rulers later on were mostly of non turkic stock, the founders of the Ottoman empire were the turks, although we were used as cannon fodder from a time on, as we can see that the turks were usually the "soldier caste" of the ottoman empire and were usually poor, compared to the rich greeks, armenians and xxxs.
Yes, we might have been the poor peasants that the ottomans used for their warmongering, but we played the major role in conquering the vast lands that the Ottoman elite ruled.
I should know, because I'm a descendant of the turks of romania.

[may]

Re: What should Turkey be proud of?

I dont have the time for a long winded responce like yours may but lets honestly discuss your points and for all our sakes please lets keep it short sweet and simple.

Believe me, I don't have time either. Sad thing is the reason I am writing is your ignorance and having no political stand other than bullshiiting.

You gotta be kinnding right? Honestly how many tourists come there to just see seljuk architecture?If thats what your tourism industry was based on it simply would't exist and you know it.

It is an industry as you mentioned. It runs on profit and whatever profitable goes. If ignorant people like you prefer to drink at beaches at screw girls/boys at night, they won't go there. This does not reduce the significance of a place, or an art object. It only decreases its monetary value. History is full of artists that died because of hunger but their pieces sold for millions after they die. It is just marketing. We are talking about cultural heritage, not ebay auction. You better read a lot and get a overall political stance.

Funny how turcks choose so conveniently to ignore their ottoman history when it suites them then all of a sudden embrace it when they see something they like.You cant have it both ways sorry.Funny you mention the xxxs that is a real good one lets go to turckey now and see how they safe and comfortable they are feeling.

Who said I am ignoring Ottoman history? Tell me one example from my words. Or stop fabricating.

Military wars have been fought a long time and that is how countries expand but when russia beat germany in ww2 despite all the people the germans killed it didn't try to kill every last german and try to eradicate all aspects of its history.Even when the germans occupied russia they had a rule if u resist we will kick your ass but if u submit we will spare you and leave you alone.Even towns that resisted were not slaughtered, it was nothing like what the turcks did to us.My grandmother lived through both wars she saw what the turcks did she was there in eastern turckey and she saw what the germans did she was in a german occupied russian city during ww2.Even when swinging the sword there is humanity to it unless it is a turckish sword.

Nazis were angels compared to us, huh? You were looking for a joke. Take the one that you wrote.

Pamuk basicly wrote exactly what i just said that turcks commited genocide and that turkish history is written with the blood of the people who lived there before the turcks what a good way to prove me right. As for the others all i have to say is they are so well known that i have never heard of them.I am sure no hlusi manuver exists,never heard of the oktay flask,nor have i heard the ogur symphony, never heard of the cafit mathametical formula,maybe dino painted the flinstone cartoons?where is the nazim haicoo?

Show me the source that Pamuk told "turkish history is written with the blood of the people who lived there before". Turkish history is not confined to 1900s. The admittance of genocide does not extend to all Turkish history, just as it does not extend the guilt to all nation.

Seriously man i mentioned a 6th grader can prove me right and your wrong i guess i overestimated you im gona go with a fourth grader and cross my fingers.

Actually, you can just write "www.google.com" in you web browser (internet explorer or mozilla are the most common ones), and you should see a search bar (a search bar is a field that you can write texts on). If you wrote any of the names that I mentioned in the search bar, and click "search" button, you would not ask for a symphony (which is more a musical form of the west) from an eastern musician. And you know what, you just have to be a first grade to do all that. If we were talking face to face, I would think you are illiterate on top of your ignorance, however it looks like it is a problem of ignorance alone.

Erkan Ogur is the first person that used fretless classic guitar, and the reason I mentioned him was he made an album with Djivan Gasparyan (I am not sure you know him as well with that level of intellectual shallowness). He is a great and unique musician. His jazz compositions are worth listening to.

Cahit Arf is known with his contributions to topology. He does not have a simple formula, he has a theorem. Wow! This savage's brain is working as much as his arms dude!!! Follow the instructions above for searching and voila! You'll see "Hasse-Arf theorem" "Arf rings".

Yes, you are right, there is nothing with Hulusi, but there is disease called "Behcet". He preferred using his surname to name the disease that he identified. What a weird choice right?

Nazim Hikmet is a world renown famous poet, playwright. He has the the International Peace Prize by the World Peace Council in 1951. This award was given to Pablo Neruda, Pablo Picasso, Paul Robeson the year before. You know Pablo Picasso right? His credentials are many to list here. Plus, you may get bored of seeing names that you cannot recognize.

Abidin Dino, who is close friend of Nazim Hikmet and both being close friends with Neruda and Picasso, lived in France for a long time, is a renown painter. Actually he even directed a documentary movie called "Goal" which is about the world cup that England won. Do you have it by any chance?

Oktay Sinanoglu? A small copy paste from his credentials: "He theorized the "Many-Electron Theory of Atoms and Molecules" in 1962 by solving a mathematical theorem that had been unsolved for 50 years. The same year, he earned the "Alfred P. Sloan" prize. As appointed professor in 1963 at the age of only 28, he became the youngest person in the past century at Yale to attain the status as a full professor. He got his second life-long chair in Yale in Molecular Biology." etc etc.


You may not know those people, that's fine (I mean not everyone is highly intellectual). Instead of blindly making fun of them, you could just check internet for a second, and that will save you from being ridiculed here. Go and read and learn and more importantly break free from your prejudices.

[Haykakan]

Re: What should Turkey be proud of?

It is amazing that you had to go through so much bs before you listed a couple people.Like why couldnt you have listed them and their accomplishments before without all this bullxxxx.No i have not heard of any of these guys except pamuk the poor guy had to leave his country becaus he was afraid for his life and iprisonment in the enlightened country of his.I dont mean to downgrade the accomplishments of any of the people you mentioned but i dont think these people are world famous.Linking someone to other world famous people (givan,picaso) doesnt make that person world reknowned.Perhaps i am wrong and some of them really are world reknowned people but i was looking more for the level of william soroyan or kirk krigorian or andre agasi basicly people everyone would know.I think even you would agree we are talking about a different level but that doesnt matter atleast we got something to work with now.

[Haykakan]

Re: What should Turkey be proud of?

Well, first of all, you have to be more specific.
Are you looking for accomplishments of turks during the periods of;
-Republic of Turkey
-Ottoman Empire
-Seljuk Empire
-Oghuz Turks
Hmmm?
I'd like to say that it would be unfair to leave turks without credit for laying the foundations of an empire that spanned over three continents, whereas the rulers later on were mostly of non turkic stock, the founders of the Ottoman empire were the turks, although we were used as cannon fodder from a time on, as we can see that the turks were usually the "soldier caste" of the ottoman empire and were usually poor, compared to the rich greeks, armenians and xxxs.
Yes, we might have been the poor peasants that the ottomans used for their warmongering, but we played the major role in conquering the vast lands that the Ottoman elite ruled.
I should know, because I'm a descendant of the turks of romania.

I think the republic is what people want to know about but as you can see the title of the thread sets no limits so fire away.

[may]

Re: What should Turkey be proud of?

It is amazing that you had to go through so much bs before you listed a couple people.Like why couldnt you have listed them and their accomplishments before without all this bullxxxx.No i have not heard of any of these guys except pamuk the poor guy had to leave his country becaus he was afraid for his life and iprisonment in the enlightened country of his.I dont mean to downgrade the accomplishments of any of the people you mentioned but i dont think these people are world famous.Linking someone to other world famous people (givan,picaso) doesnt make that person world reknowned.Perhaps i am wrong and some of them really are world reknowned people but i was looking more for the level of william soroyan or kirk krigorian or andre agasi basicly people everyone would know.I think even you would agree we are talking about a different level but that doesnt matter atleast we got something to work with now.

First, it's true that he got threats but Orhan Pamuk did not have to leave the country. He was offered a position in Columbia University and he is coming back and forth.

I did not give any links because I had no time to search for good source(I did not want to post wiki links as I did before). But I was not expecting such a response either.

The problem is you blindly made fun of them, and in a childish manner, making fun of their names. Your not hearing someone does not make him/her not famous. Your "thinking" hardly matters for those people's reputation.

I specifically gave Erkan Ogur because I thought Armenians will know him. Erkan Ogur and Gasparyan are similar musicians. Great talent but not marketed the whole world as they deserve.

I specifically told about Picasso after I saw of your huge ignorance, just to point out the level of Dino's art and his fellow artists. The relationship between Picasso and Abidin Dino are not confined to buddy style, having few drinks together.

And honestly, I am not really sure of the people that you talk about except Agassi (actually I did not know he was Armenian). But my difference will be "googling" them and learn, instead of saying "kirk? the metallica's guitar player?". Fair enough, right?