The sense of loss?

[bell-the-cat]

Re: The sense of loss?

History is not a matter of opinion, it's a fact.

Then there are damn few facts in this thread. That's a fact, not an opinion.

[bell-the-cat]

Re: The sense of loss?

Again, you show how little you know about this subject. When Talat, Enver and Cemal took over the cup in 1913, they almost immediately started putting together a propaganda campaign against the Armenians, declaring them traitors/enemies of the state. Their massive loss to the Russians in late 1914 afforded them the opportunity to seal the deal on this campaign.

What "massive loss in late 1914" - things were going well for Turkey on their Eastern front, and the Russians were in a state of panic.

Revolts were exaggerated,

What "revolts"?

Secondly comes a major key that is often overlooked when discussing the reasoning behind the Armenian genocide: OIL! The Ottomans had lots of it, and the Germans wanted access to it. An agreement was reached to extend the "Silk Road/Orient Express" on through Baghdad, and up to Germany. In exchange, the Germans would help the Turks pave the way for such a project by getting the Armenians, who resided on large chunks of the necessary lands, out of the way. This a huge part of the reason an alliance was formed in the first place between the OE, and the German Empire.

That is just 100% bull. Honestly. Where on earth did you get that from?

[Pedro Xaramillo]

Re: The sense of loss?

What "massive loss in late 1914" - things were going well for Turkey on their Eastern front, and the Russians were in a state of panic.

What "revolts"?




That is just 100% bull. Honestly. Where on earth did you get that from?

Prove him wrong, if he is so wrong, give us the right answers, we're waiting for you to debunk what he says, otherwise he is right and you have as usual contributed nothing

[Pazooki]

Re: The sense of loss?

That's just example of another opinion.

Keza Tvoom

[hipeter924]

Re: The sense of loss?

Prove him wrong, if he is so wrong, give us the right answers, we're waiting for you to debunk what he says, otherwise he is right and you have as usual contributed nothing

He is wrong over the oil for sure....people didn't even know how to distil and use oil properly till the industrial era and no one then actually imported petrol from Turkey, cars are a 20th century invention.

[Crimson Glow]

Re: The sense of loss?

What "massive loss in late 1914" - things were going well for Turkey on their Eastern front, and the Russians were in a state of panic.

You're kidding, right? Things were going well? First, you make it sound as though they were at war for a year. The Turks had just entered the war at the very end of November, and didn't see much action till December, where they didn't do so well...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Ardahan

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Sar%C4%B1kam%C4%B1%C5%9F

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yG-bj-G5me4&feature=PlayList&p=21BE3036E649F508&index=1

Taken from the description of the video: "Enver Pasha takes personal command of the Ottoman Third Army (95,000 men) and sends it to attack Russian forces in the Caucasus. German military advisor, General Liman von Sanders, advises against a mountain offensive in winter. On December 29, 1914, the Ottoman advance is halted by about 100,000 Russian troops at Sarikamesh. Six days later, the Turks have lost 30,000 men and reel back toward the city of Erzurum. More soldiers desert or die of frostbite; more than half of the Third Army is lost."

BTW, that figure is wrong. They lost closer to 90% of the army by the time you factor in the deserters and those that died during the retreat. Was it at this point that "the Russians were in a state of panic", Bell? The only thing the Turks won was an insignificant battle in Bergmann. The rest of the time, they got their asses handed to them on account of Enver's ignorance and arrogance. Welcome to WWI 101.

What "revolts"?

......wow.....just....I don't even know where to start with this one, other than look up Turkey's excuses today for the deportations.

He is wrong over the oil for sure....people didn't even know how to distil and use oil properly till the industrial era and no one then actually imported petrol from Turkey, cars are a 20th century invention.

That is just 100% bull. Honestly. Where on earth did you get that from?

*massages his temples*

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fl8sMDZkyXc (Part I)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EJI0HQLHlX4 (Part II)

Watch and learn basic history. Also, watch the documentary "Blood and Oil" which was just posted to YouTube late last year all the way through. As the title suggests, it does a good job explaining the importance that oil played even in WWI.



Seriously, Bell. Was your reply a joke? All your talk and posturing about how well versed you are on this subject, how we'd need to pay you $10k and wait 6 months for your version of a report on this subject, all your belittling of other members for not relying on facts, or knowing the truth about this subject, and this is the best you could come up with for a reply?? You have lost all credibility in my eyes on this subject. Never, EVER speak of the Armenian genocide again.

As for you, Ferdi, for the millionth time, do some research on this subject. Yes, everyone is entitled to their opinions. However, not all opinions are created equal. For example, all you're doing is pulling opinions from out of your ass with ZERO facts to base them on. I'm telling you what the facts show, you're telling me "no, I don't think so because I'd rather not believe that/it doesn't make sense to me". Please stop commenting on things you have absolutely know knowledge of.

[Palavra]

Re: The sense of loss?

There is evidence of Genocide :

The UN defines Genocide as trying to either wholely or partially destroy an ethnic, religious or racial group, what pray do you call the Armenian Genocide, extended holiday?

So intention is a must. Infact that is where armenians had problems. They could not prove there is an intention. Ops, Of course, They used some fake sources for this.

Anyway, why should you use indigenous names, yeah why not, lets instead call Mexico New Spain, Cuba and Haiti Hispaniola, we can call Azerbaijan the USSR along with Armenia, Georgia and Central Asia, we can even call the Azeris Russians, who cares what the people call themselves

Should I learn every damned langauge in world?

Now as to the Khojajuju nonsense, prove me its true, show me one non biased, not nationalist source and I will deign to respond, other than that what you say is bilge, your cousins deny any Armenian heritage there, they claim the churches are Azeri, Albanian and Georgian, whereas the architechture is clearly Armenian with Armenian glyphs on it, so what the hell, talk about Genocide, welcome to Cultural Genocide

Genocide is happened. No need to deny it. This is a historical fact.do I look like someone you know?

So in short your comments so far is, ASALA is terrorist, but the Grey Wolves arent (well you didn't answer so maybe you are trying to deny them as well huh?)

I do not see why we are talking about grey wolfes. They are nationalist and If we call all nationalist as terrorist, you should call 90% of armenians as terrorists.

I am highlighting my mentioning it your hypocracy, more land to Azerbaijan but not a millimeter to Armenia

It is related with power.

You deny then what happened in Baku, Sumgait and Maragha, you are quick to yell terrorist but lovingly accept your buddies Safarov, Samast and Agca?

My idiotic friend, this is becoming boring. I do not deny armenians were ethnicly cleansed. It is you who is denying what armenians did. Stop to waste my time with your nonsense.

Speaking of terrorism, did you know that the Azeris employed Chechen terrorist as Holy War against Armenia, but its not hypocritical to support them, then go on a bloodhunt of Iraq with your US buddies

Unrelated. I am sure, Chechens are less terrorist than russians.

THere were was no evidence proving Armenians committed murder in Artsakh, but there are loads of sourcing proving the ethnic cleansing of Nakhichevan, but of course who cares right, its just Armenians, why would they worry the innocent Turks and Azeris

So azeris were just left their occupied land because they are bored from roses which armenians give them everyday? Get serious and you cannot change past and facts.

If Kurds don't want independence, then why do the PKK exist? THere was always plans for a Kurdistan (and an Assyria, but your government saw to them didn't they?)

I did not say even one kurd did not want independence. Majority did not want independence. Anyway, PKK is also not wanting dependence. Ask them why.

What about your invasion of Cyprus, you attack the Armenians for trying to take back Artsakh, but its okay to invade Cyprus and attack the Greeks?

Unrelated. I also did not like what Turkey did at cyprus. (I am not against invasion but dividing land two different part is wrong.)

[hrai]

Re: The sense of loss?

You're kidding, right? Things were going well? First, you make it sound as though they were at war for a year. The Turks had just entered the war in August, and didn't see much action in November. The real battles came in December, where they didn't do so well...

ottoman empire entered World War One without any declaration, just by a naval bombardment of Russian Black Sea coast on October 29th 1914,
Russia formally declared war against ottomans on November 2nd 1914.

[hrai]

Re: The sense of loss?

Unrelated. I also did not like what Turkey did at cyprus. (I am not against invasion but dividing land two different part is wrong.)

So turkey should have taken the whole island and that would have been okay?

[hipeter924]

Re: The sense of loss?

[QUOTE=ferdi2;266279][QUOTE=Crimson Glow;266259]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fl8sMDZkyXc (Part I)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EJI0HQLHlX4 (Part II)

Watch and learn basic history. QUOTE]

Thanks, now I've just learnt what Armenian propaganda looks like.

If you think a documentary on the Armenian Genocide is propaganda you are an idiot...truthful events being documented are not propaganda. However denying the Armenian Genocide is propaganda because it depicts untruthful events as a result the Turkish governments institutional racism and its disregard of human rights.