Announcement

Collapse

Forum Rules (Everyone Must Read!!!)

1] What you CAN NOT post.

You agree, through your use of this service, that you will not use this forum to post any material which is:
- abusive
- vulgar
- hateful
- harassing
- personal attacks
- obscene

You also may not:
- post images that are too large (max is 500*500px)
- post any copyrighted material unless the copyright is owned by you or cited properly.
- post in UPPER CASE, which is considered yelling
- post messages which insult the Armenians, Armenian culture, traditions, etc
- post racist or other intentionally insensitive material that insults or attacks another culture (including Turks)

The Ankap thread is excluded from the strict rules because that place is more relaxed and you can vent and engage in light insults and humor. Notice it's not a blank ticket, but just a place to vent. If you go into the Ankap thread, you enter at your own risk of being clowned on.
What you PROBABLY SHOULD NOT post...
Do not post information that you will regret putting out in public. This site comes up on Google, is cached, and all of that, so be aware of that as you post. Do not ask the staff to go through and delete things that you regret making available on the web for all to see because we will not do it. Think before you post!


2] Use descriptive subject lines & research your post. This means use the SEARCH.

This reduces the chances of double-posting and it also makes it easier for people to see what they do/don't want to read. Using the search function will identify existing threads on the topic so we do not have multiple threads on the same topic.

3] Keep the focus.

Each forum has a focus on a certain topic. Questions outside the scope of a certain forum will either be moved to the appropriate forum, closed, or simply be deleted. Please post your topic in the most appropriate forum. Users that keep doing this will be warned, then banned.

4] Behave as you would in a public location.

This forum is no different than a public place. Behave yourself and act like a decent human being (i.e. be respectful). If you're unable to do so, you're not welcome here and will be made to leave.

5] Respect the authority of moderators/admins.

Public discussions of moderator/admin actions are not allowed on the forum. It is also prohibited to protest moderator actions in titles, avatars, and signatures. If you don't like something that a moderator did, PM or email the moderator and try your best to resolve the problem or difference in private.

6] Promotion of sites or products is not permitted.

Advertisements are not allowed in this venue. No blatant advertising or solicitations of or for business is prohibited.
This includes, but not limited to, personal resumes and links to products or
services with which the poster is affiliated, whether or not a fee is charged
for the product or service. Spamming, in which a user posts the same message repeatedly, is also prohibited.

7] We retain the right to remove any posts and/or Members for any reason, without prior notice.


- PLEASE READ -

Members are welcome to read posts and though we encourage your active participation in the forum, it is not required. If you do participate by posting, however, we expect that on the whole you contribute something to the forum. This means that the bulk of your posts should not be in "fun" threads (e.g. Ankap, Keep & Kill, This or That, etc.). Further, while occasionally it is appropriate to simply voice your agreement or approval, not all of your posts should be of this variety: "LOL Member213!" "I agree."
If it is evident that a member is simply posting for the sake of posting, they will be removed.


8] These Rules & Guidelines may be amended at any time. (last update September 17, 2009)

If you believe an individual is repeatedly breaking the rules, please report to admin/moderator.
See more
See less

The sense of loss?

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #51
    Re: The sense of loss?

    Originally posted by Palavra View Post
    Still. It is you who glorify(?) lost at dardanellas and It is us who glorify our win. It should be enough for you. You should thanks us. Because our soldiers fight bravely, Now you are a nation..

    Anyway, You landed wrong place and There were not enough turk at there. (Afterall, Noone was waiting your stupid mistake.)So It is even. We would not loose a war to non-nation(New Zealand)

    did you become a nation? No need to thanks.
    NZ got the highest peak (by disobeying the British orders)...but got wiped out because of incompetence of Australians and Brits at coming to our aid. Overall though British incompetence lead to the defeat, landing on the wrong beach was just one thing they got wrong.

    NZ did become a nation...in 1947. Though realistically we cut the reigns in the 1980s with the rainbow warrior incident and anti-nuke policy, that basically turned NZ into a nation independent of the British and the United States.

    US and UK basically refused a lot of our trade so we went to China, Japan and South Korea, and as recently the middle east (we trade with Iran too and some of their students come here for study ).

    I have to say I love China, Japan and South Korea because to put it bluntly they were kinder and more affectionate towards NZ than the British or United States ever were. Even today...British follow a racist food miles policy towards NZ and deny us immigration...even though they have bigger social and economic problems than we do, and on average NZ'ers earn more than the average Brit over there.

    China doesn't push us around and use us as pawns...it actually likes NZ...US and UK just used us as cannon fodder in all their wars and didn't like us much (British especially were racist snobs towards NZ and Aus). Chinese, Japanese and South Korean's know NZ more than the US or UK do...and they sure as hell don't think we are part of Australia.

    The good thing though is that our foreign policy isn't pro-Israel and pro-US (have to thank the middle eastern traders and Chinese for this), and we are one of the few western nations that doesn't have institutional or cultural intolerance towards Islam, and other religions. We have never had a single complaint to the human rights commission by a Muslim (as far as I know)...so we must be doing something right.

    Urgh...this way off topic. Oh well. Getting back on topic. I hate most nationalists...i'm an internationalist. Turkey should just recognize the Genocide...or what hope does the rest of the world have in not blowing each other to tiny bits if we can't do a single nice thing like accept the truth about history?
    Last edited by hipeter924; 04-28-2009, 03:29 AM.

    Comment


    • #52
      Re: The sense of loss?

      isnt white supremacy a problem at Australia and NZ ?

      By the way, If I follow your logic, You could not win a war against turks even with the help of brits and australians? Anyway, That argument was funny. Ottomans was to big to be compared with NZ.

      Turkey should just recognize the Genocide...or what hope does the rest of the world have in not blowing each other to tiny bits if we can't do a single nice thing like accept the truth about history?
      Oh pls. I dont think world need us. There are a lot of other states who did not recognize genocide they committed too. Maybe we should begin from them. Then we can follow them.

      Comment


      • #53
        Re: The sense of loss?

        Originally posted by Palavra View Post
        isnt white supremacy a problem at Australia and NZ ?
        Not as bad as Turkish supremacy in Turkey. Maori is an official language in New Zealand -- what about Kurdish in Turkey? Even disgruntled realists like yourself have started to realize that treating them like crap is not going to work.

        Comment


        • #54
          Re: The sense of loss?

          Originally posted by Palavra View Post
          Yes, I feel dirty too. It is disgusting to normalise relation with armenians under the thread of AG. That is like blackmailing Turkey with AG.
          LOL now THERE'S irony. Using the AG to blackmail Turkey??? That's a Turkish tactic. THEY'RE the ones that have threatened everyone and their mother if they recognize the AG, distribute books, movies, articles about it, teach it in schools, etc. Blackmailing people over the AG issue is Turkey's game.



          Originally posted by ferdi2
          Well yes, I would expect you to start having normal relations irrespective of what any predecessors may have done. In terms of here and now, what's that got to do with me? Your predecessors should have dealt with it 90, 80, 70, 60, 50 years ago when the guilty were around. It's not my fault your sense of justice remains unfulfilled 94 years later. I know in law there's a popular concept that there remains no statute of limitations on murder, but I reject that.
          .....and we care what YOU reject because???



          Originally posted by ferdi2
          There is, once the culprit has departed this world then as my Italian friends say it's 'la musica e finita'. Denying something may be immoral, bad taste but that doesn't make the post generation complicit in the original sin.
          No. That makes you COMPLACENT with the original sin.



          Originally posted by ferdi2
          I know this will come across as very inflammatory to many of you but keep things in perspective about who really did what, who is to blame, needs to regret, apologize etc.
          Your predecessors committed the crime, your current generation denies it, threatens nations who dare to accept it, imprisons those who admit it (even if it's one of their own), IF they're not killed by nationalists first, and you don't think they're the ones who need to regret, and apologize for the actions of those predecessors, as WELL as their own? You apparently have no clue how significant this issue is to your OWN country, not just our people. Otherwise, there wouldn't be such a huge cover up STILL going on. If it's in the past, and nothing can be done about it now, why won't your nation fess up to it? Why do they criminalize the use of the term genocide to describe these events?

          Let's say your father stole a car without you knowing it, and gave you that car as a gift, and immediately after, he passes away. Let's say later on, the police traced the trail of the car, and found out it was your dad who had stolen it, and that the car is in your possession. Let's say they believe you when you say you had nothing to do with it. Do you think you'd get to keep the car? Do you feel you'd have the RIGHT to keep that stolen car? After all, you had nothing to do with the crime, and it's not your problem. Well guess what, here where morality and reality rule, the car would be taken from you, and if you had an once of righteousness, YOU'D be apologizing for the actions of your deceased father.

          This scenario is no different than the AG issue. Your forefathers came out of no where, occupied lands through rape, pillage and murder, and then took the lands you reside on today by annihilating its indigenous inhabitants. Today, you come here and say "that's not my problem". Ahhhh, but it IS your problem. For you see, you can't have it both ways. Just as when a corporation buys out a business, they not only take ownership of that business, but they inherit ALL of its debts. Likewise, if you can inherit the benefits of your predecessors crimes, then you must also be willing to inherit the means by which you obtained those benefits. You can't just say "thank you, we'll take the lands and riches, but we don't want any mention of how we GOT those lands, cuz that wasn't us!!11" It doesn't work that way, and if you feel it does, then your problem goes well beyond being a denialst Turk. You lack basic moral understanding, and any further discussion with you is futile.

          Comment


          • #55
            Re: The sense of loss?

            Not as bad as Turkish supremacy in Turkey. Maori is an official language in New Zealand -- what about Kurdish in Turkey? Even disgruntled realists like yourself have started to realize that treating them like crap is not going to work.
            It is not turkish supremacy. It is nationalism. Anyway, we were not talking about turkey. Also I am not talking about minorities but immigrations..

            LOL now THERE'S irony. Using the AG to blackmail Turkey??? That's a Turkish tactic. THEY'RE the ones that have threatened everyone and their mother if they recognize the AG, distribute books, movies, articles about it, teach it in schools, etc. Blackmailing people over the AG issue is Turkey's game.
            My naive friend, do you realy think countried who recognize AG did it because of "humanity".

            Comment


            • #56
              Re: The sense of loss?

              Originally posted by Palavra View Post
              It is not turkish supremacy. It is nationalism. Anyway, we were not talking about turkey.
              I didn't say it wasn't nationalism, but it is also Turkish supremacy. And we are always talking about Turkey. How could you of all people forget that?

              Originally posted by Palavra
              Also I am not talking about minorities but immigrations..
              Because, most of the time, white supremacy targets the majority?

              Comment


              • #57
                Re: The sense of loss?

                It wasn't genoicide , it was payback for stabbing us in the back...
                Give us proof instead of howling like an impatient chiaus.

                My naive friend, do you realy think countried who recognize AG did it because of "humanity".
                Now look who's getting all righteous. My naive palavra, even the most inhumane nation understands more about humanity then your country does so go water your own garden!

                There a flawed laws in Turkey as well as flawed politicians. Why they choose to criminalize, prosecute or threaten over this issue is beyond my comprehension.
                ... not ours!

                There may be sufficient proof to suggest that due to the wilful neglect and lack of protection afforded to innocent civilians
                Your forgetting that your grandfathers in hell FIRST gathered up all the PROTECTORS aka men, and murdered them so that the women wouldn't be protected. Is that something very hard for you to understand? Should I start at a more intermediate level?

                Legally speaking they were Ottoman lands, not yours.
                Not all the land. If they were, many wouldn't have have ARMENIAN names before the AG. And anyways, factually speaking, your mongol ancestors came to OUR lands so stop with your crap. You don't know a thing about legal issues.

                What follows, being the Republic of Turkey does not inherit any debts or obligations, it's basically like we're virgins, pure as the driven snow
                Nah, underneath, your just the same xxxxx! We can prove THAT as well.
                THE ROAD TO FREEDOM AND JUSTICE IS A LONG ONE!

                Comment


                • #58
                  Re: The sense of loss?

                  Originally posted by ferdi2
                  Back to law school again. Every understood the concept of "bankruptcy"? Well basically bankruptcy laws wipes the slate clean. The demise of the Ottoman empire was the end of that corporation as we know it. What follows, being the Republic of Turkey does not inherit any debts or obligations, it's basically like we're virgins, pure as the driven snow :-) The Lusanne Treaty put paid to that. Go complain to the big boys who created the treaty if you don't like, we didn't invent the rules, just played them right.
                  As for morality, here's one of my favourite quotes:

                  “Morality is simply the attitude we adopt towards people whom we personally dislike.”
                  Oscar Wilde
                  Too bad reality doesn't work that way...Turkey still carries the Ottoman baggage and thats why you will never be accepted into the EU until the Genocide issue is settled.

                  Comment


                  • #59
                    Re: The sense of loss?

                    Originally posted by Palavra View Post
                    isnt white supremacy a problem at Australia and NZ ?

                    By the way, If I follow your logic, You could not win a war against turks even with the help of brits and australians? Anyway, That argument was funny. Ottomans was to big to be compared with NZ.



                    Oh pls. I dont think world need us. There are a lot of other states who did not recognize genocide they committed too. Maybe we should begin from them. Then we can follow them.
                    One defeat wasn't going to stop the British Empire + United States if we wanted to invade...but Russia went all communist...so people gave up...there was no point...because the whole point of invading Turkey was to make trade with Russia...since it was communist there was no point.

                    As for the capacity more were lost in a few days than the whole Gallipoli campaign. Also compared to the British Empire, Turkey was a midget,lol. Have to remember there was no NZ and Aus as such back then...just British Empire.

                    Comment


                    • #60
                      Re: The sense of loss?

                      One defeat wasn't going to stop the British Empire + United States if we wanted to invade...
                      Agree. You had better weapon and more soldiers. That is why we glorify dardanellas wars.

                      Russia went all communist...so people gave up...there was no point...because the whole point of invading Turkey was to make trade with Russia...since it was communist there was no point.
                      Hmm. Infact, Brits entered istanbul later.

                      Also compared to the British Empire, Turkey was a midget,lol. Have to remember there was no NZ and Aus as such back then...just British Empire.
                      So now, You become brit? werent you accusing brits for your defeat?

                      Comment

                      Working...
                      X