The sense of loss?

[Gavur]

Re: The sense of loss?

What’s this major preoccupation? Fighting for justice? If so, you’re right, and that’s what we will always fight for unlike your gov. who has the biggest preoccupation … killing our past and our present!



I don’t know how your conscience can be clear when you remember the fact that your grandfathers raped and burned my people. If your consciousness is clear then you’re simply sick. How can you be so artificially indifferent? Your people, and you at one point most definitely, denied everything that happened. Doesn’t that bother you? You’ve done much more, by the way, just a quick wake up call.



That’s not what I meant. What I meant was that AT THE MOMENT, and for the past 100 years, you and your people have been liars and cowards directly and/or indirectly. If you all accept what happened, you won’t be the cowards your grandparents were. That’s what I’m saying and I would be happier then anyone else to see that happen. And just a pointer, you can’t say we were traitors because we WEREN’T. Your nation on the other hand was filled with cowards who still, even after 94 years show their cowardice. I am not happy about this, don’t get the wrong picture!



You didn’t read my post, AGAIN, it seems. Oh well, here we go again. YES, we are the ones that must forgive YOU and YOUR PEOPLE. Your nation is the criminal … we are the victim. A kindergartener could understand what I’m saying … CLEARLY. Read my posts AGAIN and you might start to understand what I’m saying. I’ve said it all as clearly as I could.



Tell me about it, that’s the kind of beast within the heart of your gov. and many of your people! We know that beast very well, don’t worry. And no, some things are never forgotten. That’s not a myth. It's only a myth for people like you. You will understand that one day. Some things do last forever. Death doesn’t take everything away. But why am I going deeper into this topic, you couldn’t even understand the basic posts I posted. Let’s go back to them, shall we?



Who do you think??? I didn’t expect such a primitive question from you!



Oh, don’t worry, that’s coming very soon. Stay tuned. And to answer your question.

1. The grandchild doesn’t only deny the past but destroys everything that belonged to us.
2. Enjoys our money.
3. Continues a modern genocide.
4. Hides the truth in inhumane ways.

ETC. Do you NOW FINALLY SEE why your people still continue to be blamed or should I start at a more intermediate level? I said all this a hundred times already for God sakes.



And where everyone else comes from, there are REAL laws. And you know what, I love your law actually. According to it then, so many Turks need to be trialed because they continue what their ancestors started. So let’s go to court, Turks. Are you ready? And again, I’m not saying YOU alone or personally have to stand in court. The grandchildren won’t pay the same price their grandfathers would have to pay … but they will pay, nonetheless, especially for what they’ve been doing after the AG … for the last 94 years. You seem to think that everything ended in 1923. Everything BEGAN after 1923. Remember that.



They were trying but its kinda hard taking necessary steps forward when more then ¾ of your people are dead! Your nation began to hide everything and for that reason we had a hard time doing anything serious. If everything stopped then, you would be able to freely live your lives. But everything continued and still goes on today. Even a kid can understand what I’m saying so I hope you do as well.



Could you please describe those lies and dreams please because so far the only lies and dreams that I know of are flying out of your country … the pan turanic dream being one of them ... the El Dorado of your people! (Keep Dreaming, by the way)

Why are we arguing here ? just for the sake of argument?
You guys are arguing on stuff you mostly agree on lol!

[Sako]

Re: The sense of loss?

Stole? Western armenia was ottoman land. Anyway, what about azeris land? I am sure, You will find some excuse for them. You have no right to teach me ethic. I am against what happened at 1915.(Unlike your support to what happened to armenians.)

Your against it kid because it wasn't YOUR mothers that were raped. And I'M NOT TEACHING YOU ETHICS. People like you don't know what ethics are. I've been saying such simple things in my posts and you didn't understand a single thing. Why am I even continuing this fruitless conversation with such a material and politically illiterate person?

If we listen you, It would be a better future for armenians. Anyway, that land is painted by turkish blood too.

Very little Turkish blood!!!

Bla bla. Everynation have their blood past. This also include armenians. I do not see you have any problem with armenian support to crusaders. So armenian bloody past wont harm you, I am sure Turkish bloody past wont harm me too.

I talk about the a Genocide and he cites the Crusades which EVERY nation took part in almost.

LOL .. just LOL.

I think you are wrong. Every nation have their blood losses. or do you think, armenians were only ones who genocided or ethnic cleansed.

We were the first of the 21st Century and our Genocide is worst then the others because it is being denied even today. Plus, the Modern Genocide continues. Is this too much information for your mind? Shall I continue?

So tell me, which county accepted their own blood past?

Germany is one of them!

A turkish politician is not more or less evil than armenian one. Politicians are politicians and when It comes to states, we need politicians.

Just not TURKISH Politicians.

Security.

haha, and we can see lot's of security in Turkey right? Who are you kidding, girl?

Easy. Richness of turkish people freedom of turkish people and security of turkish people.

At the moment, we can only see the "richness".

You should read more newspaper and learn who need opening borders. Your macho attitute dont change reality..

And neither does your lies and/or indifference ... AND like I said, you don't seem to know a thing about politics. You cited the border again.

That is bullxxxx. It is not my people did it. It is ittihatists. Armenians(dashnaks) were supporting them when Ittihatist were rebelled against legitimate sultan. So You cannot accuse my people as colletively.

Hahaha. Ironic isn't that every Turk says the same thing. Why don't you do some REAL reading for once in your life? Then we'll see who's wrong and who's right!

We did not steal anything from you. Before 1915 eastern anatolia is ottoman land and after 1915 It is ottoman land.

READ, READ, and READ SOME MORE.

You are 50% right I am materialist when It comes to national politic.(%50 wrong, I am not girl.)

Well it doesn't seem like it...

You should also become materialist when It comes to politic of your nation. This is how you survive...

I'm afraid I can't live like you. I can't live peacefully while denying the fact that my nation murdered an entire nation and raped mothers. You live like that ... I can't ... I'm sorry. I can't forget what happened ... mostly because your nation won't allow me to do so.

No they dont. They are emotional..

We can all see how emotional they are ... we can all see that emotion. We've been seeing it for 800 years ...

[Sako]

Re: The sense of loss?

He's grandpa most likely did nothing wrong except, accepting the denial because of material gains.When they were deported or escaped from the Balkans fleeing religious prosecution they were put in to Armenian victims homes and property.

He's having a hardass time understanding that it seems...

[hrai]

Re: The sense of loss?

He's having a hardass time understanding that it seems...

The dispossessed Balkan turcs fleeing from Serbs,Bulgarians etc. were moved into Armenian homes,villages and towns.
These turcs were the perfect tools to carry out the triumvirate's genocidal dream. They hated Christians and anything Christian.
How can it be said they did nothing wrong when they moved into homes with ovens and beds still warm. Took possessions from these homes, took young children from these homes, took clothes from people's backs.
How can it be said they did nothing wrong when they attacked Armenians in streets and fields, mountains and churches. When they worked alongside the ottoman army, the muslim irregulars to attack and kill men, women & children.
These turcs from the Balkans took Armenia, made it a wasteland and have kept it a wasteland.
They have tried to "gobi-fy" Armenia.
Armenian land is in Armenian blood & Armenian blood is in Armenian land.

[Sako]

Re: The sense of loss?

People and governments can believe what they what to believe, that's outside your control.

... And perhaps continuing the Modern Genocide is pretty normal as well, Ferdi! Isn't it?

You aren't the 'thought police'

Yeah, your pathetic government is!

You have the right to pass judgements on their credibility and choose whether to have relations or not but I see nothing criminal in denial per se.

Whatever goes around ... comes around Ferdi. That's all I want you to remember. That's how this world works! If it was your people who were murdered, you wouldn't be talking like a b***h right now. You'd be waving your bigass banners at us instead. So why are we wrong to ask for justice? Or is it only right if your the one asking for it?

[Sako]

Re: The sense of loss?

"continuing the Modern Genocide" ........ please elaborate, you've lost me.

One simple example. Your people and the Azeri's have been destroying any and all evidence that proves the AG took place. Another example. They destroy everything that belonged and still belongs to us so that no one will be able to say factually that any land belonged to us or that we even lived there once. This is the next level of Genocide! There is much, much more you don't know and I don't blame you. Your gov. will never allow you to see the truth ... only we can AND WILL!

Just unbelievable, another freak'n genocide right under my nose.

Yeah, buddy, another Genocide right under your freakin nose.

You guys throw the 'g' word around like confetti. No wonder it's hard to take you seriously.

It's only people like you that don't take us seriously! Only people like you who only think about their xxxxing skin. We use the 'G" word because there is no other word to describe what you people did to us and so many others. That's what you should be taking seriously! Doesn't it seem strange that your gov. has been taking such extreme steps to hide everything? You claim that it's hard to take us seriously, lol, when your gov. has taken us SO SERIOUSLY, it's pissing in it's pants the second it realizes that a news reporter MIGHT'VE even slightly hinted about the Armenian Genocide. If it wasn't so serious, you wouldn't be denying and hiding everything for 94 xxxxing years.

unfortunately it has a time limit.

Who says???

As for what I would do, I'd be asking what do I hope to achieve by waving these bigass banners around the place anyway. And I wouldn't be whining like a b**h nearly a century later.

Your more of a xxxxx then I thought. How can you say something like that? We know what we want to acheive, Turk, don't worry. You don't know what your people have done to us ... hell, you don't even understand my posts. I've been trying to make you understand what's going on and although you accept that the AG took place, you act like it was just "something" that happened. You have no feelings...

When you put your feet in our shoes for one day, then you'll have the right to talk. You don't respect what happened or the Armenian people who gave your nation WAY MORE then you deserved. We are only in this pathetic state because of your grandfathers and when what happened to us ... happens to you (God forbid), then we'll see what you'll do ... then you'll understand what Saco was saying. Right now, your just full of xxxx and I don't see the point of continuing this conversation with you. Someone has to start at a more intermediate level with you and I have no desire to do so.

[Sako]

Re: The sense of loss?

Anyways I only have one question ;

We have lived together on the same land with the Armenian people for over 800 years...

Not much more then 800!

We have been stabbed over and over again by the minorities under our rule... If we were to apply force at the begining and don't let those people have any rights , right after we conquered their lands (like the thing American did to the natives) , there would be none even to argue all these things.

What makes you think we had rights, Atila? You don't appreciate the gravity of the situation. You and all your friends in Turkey say only what you've been taught by your gov. All of you say the SAME THING, ironic, isn't it? You have no idea how many times I've answered these questions and in the end, almost no one has had anything to say. It's not hard to understand why. The bad thing about the Turkish education system is that they teach the same thing they teach to everyone else ... never allowing students to say or even think otherwise. So that's why when they face someone with much greater knowledge of history, they don't really know what to say. Open your eyes and look at the bigger picture, Atila. Start thinking outside your countries borders...

Anyways I understand all ur efforts to have a history of your own , but blaming other countries to have one , is even more disgraceful than killing the children and wives who were left behind because their husbands , fathers and brothers left their homes for WWI.

Haha, LEFT BEHIND because their husbands, fathers and brotehrs left their homes for WWI? Is this what your pathetic gov. teaches you? I was expecting them to teach you something more realistic. You think our men went to WWI? They were systematically murdered so that the women and children wouldn't be guarded. You seriously ... GRAVELY ... need to do some proper reading.

Go ahead with ur propaganda and maybe one day u will have a history of ur own...

Our history my Turkish friend is over 4000 years old. How old is yours???

Your people tried to destroy ours but failed, ruining their OWN history for good. Only a part of ours was destroyed along with our people. Armenia will never die. That's what pisses your nation off the most nowadays. . .It always has! and always will!

Why on hell would we try to attempt a genoicide on these people , while we are losing every piece of land that we have after WWI ?.

Because it's the best time to cover up your tracks. No one is paying attention to you so you can pretty much do whatever you want and say what Turkey says nowadays . . . that it was WW1! That phrase alone cracks me up every time, lol.

What you have to understand Atila is that the Genocide didn't start from 1915. It started more then 30 years before 1915 ... under Sultan Hamid the Second's rule, who hated Armenians more then anyone else. He murdered mercilessly. That's why he was soon nicknamed ... The Bloody Sultan!

The most important fact I want you to remember is that your people have hated us ... the Christian populace ... more then you can imagine ... for centuries. They always doubled taxes, took our rights away, and did much, much more. In the end though, they were amazed because we still survived and lived happily and eventually became a very powerful part of Turkey. A simple example, yeah? 90% of the Turkish bank was under our arms! The Armenians were very talented and were much more skilled then the Turks in almost every field, including sports, music, etc. We posed the greatest threat to Turkey. That is why they decided to get rid of us ... and what better time then WWI? This is the simplest description I can give you but if you want me to go into greater detail, marking every event on a daily basis , then let me know. I always look forward to helping out in any way I can. Don't get the wrong impression from my posts. I only get rough with people who deserve it. Hope I could help!

Before you can understand what your country has done and continues to do, you must stop being sarcastic. Approach us with your questions and we will gladly answer them. Ask properly and we will answer properly.

The greatest proof that your nation is guilty is the very rough denial we can all see everyday ... for the last 94 years. We on the other hand have enough proof to drown your nation in. That is why it exercises the 301 article, bans YouTube, murders Hrant Dink, theatens anyone that talks to us or thinks differently, and does much, much more because if it doesn't, the truth will erupt in a matter of days. Look at the bigger picture and you will get your answers without our help, believe it or not. All you need to do is take a neautral stance and take a good look (outside of Turkey because Turkey is drowning in lies). Trust me. No one wants all this crap to end more then me but your materially obsessed gov. will never allow that to happen. Only you, the New Generation, can end what your grandfathers in hell started and we want nothing more then to help you and get things sorted. All you need to do is take a step forward. All you need is desire...

[Gavur]

Re: The sense of loss?

Anyways I only have one question ;

We have lived together on the same land with the Armenian people for over 800 years...

Why on hell would we try to attempt a genocide on these people , while we are losing every piece of land that we have after WWI ?.

You are losing the war on all fronts and all of a sudden the party in charge decides to wipe out the Armenian people...

I can imagine how the people in charge could think back in those days ;

Yeah we are very bored right now because we are a getting conquered all over the place but I have a great idea "Lets go for a genocide those are always fun..."

Come on people just sit down and think. Does that make any sense ?

Young Atilla, murder is senseless, to try to rationalize murder is to accept that it is alright to commit it when it suits you.
Jious were lot more assimilated in Germany more than Armenians were in the evil empire, (in fact leading members of that Ottoman society were always hoping to assimilate western culture unfortunately the bad traits mostly.) this didn't prevent the Ibrani Genocide!
There are 8 stages of Genocide,and that's not my opinion it's a fully accepted principal in Genocide studies.That means there are at least 8 different ways to Genocide people, so don't feel bad about us using one word (for a lack of all encompassing word)to describe all 8 that has been happening to Armenian people.If freedom of thought and speech were less restricted in your state.you would understand more easily especially when it is being explained by your own citizens.

[Gavur]

Re: The sense of loss?

Anyways I only have one question ;

We have lived together on the same land with the Armenian people for over 800 years...

Why on hell would we try to attempt a genoicide on these people , while we are losing every piece of land that we have after WWI ?.

You are losing the war on all fronts and all of a sudden the party in charge decides to wipe out the Armenian people...

I can imagine how the people in charge could think back in those days ;

Yeah we are very bored right now because we are a getting conquered all over the place but I have a great idea "Lets go for a genoicide those are always fun..."

Come on people just sit down and think. Does that make any sense ?

This part is propaganda, and is stale.

[Gavur]

Re: The sense of loss?

Denying is the last stage of genocide .... that's your opinion. People and governments can believe what they what to believe, that's outside your control. You aren't the 'thought police' to control or dictate what people want to believe because it upsets your sensibilities. You have the right to pass judgements on their credibility and choose whether to have relations or not but I see nothing criminal in denial per se. Some of the laws you find in Germany & Switzerland etc were created post WW2 to assuage their own guilt.

Relax, take a Valium first, and than don't flatter me so, 8 stages of Genocide is worldwide accepted scholarly work, not my opinion but one that is a proven phenomena .http://forum.hyeclub.com/showthread.php?t=14740