The sense of loss?

[bell-the-cat]

Re: The sense of loss?

Secondly comes a major key that is often overlooked when discussing the reasoning behind the Armenian genocide: OIL! The Ottomans had lots of it, and the Germans wanted access to it. An agreement was reached to extend the "Silk Road/Orient Express" on through Baghdad, and up to Germany. In exchange, the Germans would help the Turks pave the way for such a project by getting the Armenians, who resided on large chunks of the necessary lands, out of the way. This a huge part of the reason an alliance was formed in the first place between the OE, and the German Empire.

And you oil nonsense is lifted straight from 1920s Bolshevik propaganda (invented to justify their occupation of the Caucasus republics). Turkey, never one to miss a trick, has just adapted that old lie for their own use.

Turkey denies oil, or the building of railroads had anything to do with the relocation of the Armenians. In fact, this is a very little known, little talked about fact by ANYone about the genocide, including most Armenians. And where did the Russians come up in all this? They had nothing to do with the oil issue one way, or the other.

Current Turkish propaganda says that Turkey was a completely innocent victim of WW1, duped by Germany and invaded by Russia. Part of that propaganda, which you are reproducing here, says that Germany just wanted Turkey as an ally so it could get access to the oilfields at Baku, and Britain was fighting Turkey because Britain also wanted to control of those oilfields and their associated pipelines and wanted to protect its interests. This Turkish propaganda is probably derived from Bolshevik Russian propaganda invented to justify their invasion of the Transcaucasian republics. The Bolsheviks claimed those republics were unsupported by their populatons and they were just puppet states of British imperialists intent on controlling the Baku oil-fields and their pipelines.

OIL HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH THE ARMENIAN GENOCIDE.

OIL HAD NO IMPORTANCE WHATSOEVER IN ANY ACTIONS UNDERTAKEN BY TURKEY IN WW1.

[bell-the-cat]

Re: The sense of loss?

Your really are a cretin. For your info, I'm one of the few Turks here who actually believes it was a genocide, but just sick of the exaggerations. But talk amongst yourselves if you so desire. I think Bell was right about you.

And he is not alone in his "cretinacy" - sometimes visiting this forum is like taking a trip to the Monroeville Mall, where the few thinking humans try to avoid the horde of roaming, mindless zombies.

[Mukuch]

Re: The sense of loss?

sometimes visiting this forum is like taking a trip to the Monroeville Mall, where the few thinking humans try to avoid the horde of roaming, mindless zombies.

What is the role of talking cats in all of that?

[Mukuch]

Re: The sense of loss?

And you talk about democracy, freedom of speach bla bla bla. Democracy for only yourself? whatever, no need to answer. I will not listen your tale about hate, genocide bla bla.

Try to implement "democracy, freedom of speach bla bla bla" in the ZOO where you live at first. You can begin right from your cage. Now grab your banana and clime your tree, other ways some one from your tribe will take it from you.
bla,bla,bla...?

[hipeter924]

Re: The sense of loss?

And he is not alone in his "cretinacy" - sometimes visiting this forum is like taking a trip to the Monroeville Mall, where the few thinking humans try to avoid the horde of roaming, mindless zombies.

The world is like that on a massive scale. 20% possibly have a brain used well, but the other 80% seem to use it for propaganda, hate mail, death threats, and denying genocides.

[Crimson Glow]

Re: The sense of loss?

So you suggest a far-flung theory about Oil and the AG and I'm supposed to provide evidence to the contrary? That's not the way it works my furry back friend. The onus of proof is on you not me. I'm not the one making all the wild assertions.

No. I said the onus of RESEARCH is on you. You cannot comment on something you know nothing about, and you CLEARLY know nothing about the Armenian genocide. Even most denialist Turks know more than you. It's mind-boggling that you babble about what's "far-flung" when you don't know the first thing about the genocide. That means about as much to me as your opinions on the LS3 V8 engines from GM.

Izzatso? But this fact somehow just happened reveal itself to you, the chosen one, aka the Armenian Moses. Or you watched one above average documentary Blood & Oil (probably because Armenians had nothing to do with it) and now take it as gospel.

Who said the facts only revealed themselves to me? For those that have delved deep into this subject, this is basic known fact. My comment refers to the average Armenian AND Turk, who doesn't know his/her ass from a hole in the ground about the genocide (i.e. you). THEY'RE the ones who seldom discuss the connection to the Germans, and the Silk Road.

And the above documentary was released in 2006. My research stems back to late 2000, early 2001. So no. That documentary had very little to do with my research on the role oil/railway played in all this. Nice attempt at a hyperbole, or straw man argument, though.

Here's a thought. Perhaps if you stopped mixing the truth with half-truths, then just maybe I and other Turks might actually start to take what you say seriously and support your cause. But then again you could probably care less what we think right? After all your probably doing is just playing to the diaspora gallery anyway.

Here's an even better thought. Stop stating your opinion as to what are truths, and "half-truths" about a topic you haven't done an ounce of research on. Then just maybe anyone on this planet will take your opinions seriously. We're not going to soften up the truth for you so you can "support our cause".

Current Turkish propaganda says that Turkey was a completely innocent victim of WW1, duped by Germany and invaded by Russia. Part of that propaganda, which you are reproducing here, says that Germany just wanted Turkey as an ally so it could get access to the oilfields at Baku, and Britain was fighting Turkey because Britain also wanted to control of those oilfields and their associated pipelines and wanted to protect its interests. This Turkish propaganda is probably derived from Bolshevik Russian propaganda invented to justify their invasion of the Transcaucasian republics. The Bolsheviks claimed those republics were unsupported by their populatons and they were just puppet states of British imperialists intent on controlling the Baku oil-fields and their pipelines.

While the way you describe the Bolsheviks propaganda is fairly accurate, your Turkish propaganda is unsubstantiated. The Turks have actually eluded mention of the role of oil in all this for the most part, mainly because it would hurt their attempts to justify Armenian "relocations" if it was ever brought up. Remember, the Turko-German partnership over the extension of the Orient Express is documented pretty well in German archives. Read a book or two by Hilmar Kaiser, who has delved deep into this subject.

OIL HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH THE ARMENIAN GENOCIDE.

OIL HAD NO IMPORTANCE WHATSOEVER IN ANY ACTIONS UNDERTAKEN BY TURKEY IN WW1.

STATING YOUR OPPOSING OPINIONS IN ALL CAPS DOESN'T MAKE IT A FACT.

SELF-PROCLAIMING TO BE AN EXPERT ON THE ARMENIAN GENOCIDE DOESN'T MAKE IT SO.

I think if we start banning Genocide deniers we'd lose nothing,because their only purpose here (other then trying to make us feel good)is conducting propaganda for other Turk's.

I thought this site had a very strict policy against genocide deniers. The only reason they aren't getting banned is because the moderators in this board have abandoned the site after the merger with Armenian Club.

[KanadaHye]

Re: The sense of loss?

OIL HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH THE ARMENIAN GENOCIDE.

OIL HAD NO IMPORTANCE WHATSOEVER IN ANY ACTIONS UNDERTAKEN BY TURKEY IN WW1.

Yep, and the Ottoman Empire was no threat to British oil supplies from the Persian Gulf.

[Gavur]

Re: The sense of loss?

Oil was one of the reasons, protecting British crown interests in India was the biggest at the time.