New program against the Armenians and Greeks in Istanbul?

[Hayayrun]

Re: New pogrom against the Armenians and Greeks in Istanbul?

ISTANBUL RIOTS 1955

What happened on 6-7 September?

"Our father Atat�rk's house has been bombed" was the headline of the Istanbul Express newspaper's second issue in 1955. Years later, retired general Sabri Yirmibeşoğlu refers to the pogrom of 6-7 September as an "excellent special warfare operation that reached its aim".

Tolga KORKUT [email protected]

Istanbul - BÄ°A News Center 08 September 2009, Tuesday

Supporting the views of Democratic Party, Istanbul Express Newspaper was owned by Mithat Perin, editorial director of that time was G�kşin Sipahioğlu. "Our father Atat�rk's house has been bombed" made the headline of the newspaper's second issue. On 6 September 1955 290,000 issues were printed, exceeding the usual newspaper circulation of 20,000 papers by far. Members of the Cyprus Turkish Association started to distribute the issue all over Istanbul to agitate the people.

Due to reports from eyewitnesses, the riot started from a place in Pangaltı, nowadays the location of Ramada Hotel owned by a Greek citizen. In 1955 this was the place of popular localities such as the 'Haylayf' pastry shop. The riot started with attacking Haylayf pastry shop at 7.00 pm. From here the attacks spread all over Istanbul and all over the country.

Years later journalist Fatih G�llapoğlu interviewed retired general Sabri Yirmibeşoğlu about the Istanbul Riots. Yirmibeşoğlu described the attacks by saying "It was an excellent special warfare operation and it reached its goal." In those days the Greek authorities announced that the bombings in Thessaloniki were a provocation organized by the Turkish state. Oktay Engin, scholarship student at the Thessaloniki Faculty of Law and agent of the National Intelligence Agency (MİT), and Hasan U�ar, tipstaff of the consulate in Thessaloniki, were arrested in regards with this event. After some time in detention Engin and U�ar were released because of the immunity of consular officials. Later on, Engin was appointed to important tasks in MİT, progressed quickly through the different administrative levels of the state and was promoted to the Governorship of Nevşehir in 1992.

According to the press, 11 people died in the riots, according to Greek sources 15 people lost their lives. Officially 30 people were injured, unofficial numbers amount to 300. The number of raped women is estimated to be above 200.

4,214 houses, 1,004 offices, 73 churches, one synagogue, one monastery, 26 schools and 5,317 other places such as hotels and bars were attacked.

The property damage is estimated between 150 million and 1 billion Turk Lira as an equivalent to the value of those days. The Democratic Party government paid about 60 million Turkish Lira in compensation.

Newspapers of the time blamed the Greeks as the actual criminals because they had allegedly provoked the Turks. Yet, as a matter of fact 59 percent of the destroyed offices belonged to Greeks, 17 percent belonged to Armenians and 12 percent to xxxish people. Even places of converts and Muslims from Belarus were among the properties under attack, which shows that the riot cannot be seen as retaliation against the Greeks in connection with Cyprus.

When the riot got out of control Prime Minister Adnan Menderes was called from Sapanca and martial law was declared. In regards with the riots first 3151 people were arrested. Later on this number raised to 5104 people arrested.

Churches and cemeteries were attacked as well: holy pictures, crucifixes, icons and other sacred objects were destroyed. All 73 orthodox churches in Istanbul were set on fire.

Looters from İzmit and Adapazarı were caught with the goods they had plundered in Haydarpaşa train station on their way back. It turned out that many of the looters had been brought form other cities. According to documents from retired judge Fahri �oker's History Foundation, 145 looters were brought from Sivas, 117 from Trabzon, 116 from Kastamonu and 111 from Erzincan. (TK)

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Hi everybody,

we all know round about what happened on 6 to 7'th September 1955 in Istanbul, but the most exciting question is, why didn't the western countries punished Turkey?
Why did the western counties let it be without sanctions against Turkey?
At that time I was 1 year old, but my parents saw everything by their own eyes. It was terrible and very dangerous for every christian people living in Istanbul.
This was again a genocide against greeks and armenians.

We all greeks and armenians, if we have real national blood in our veins, should never forget that turks are only our enemy, they can never be our friends, because turks are still proud of what they did with armenians ans greeks.

I never accept, that turks are "human beings" for me they are a kind of animal .... or scimmings!!!

All my live I do hate turks and this feeling become stronger after every single day.

[KanadaHye]

Re: New program against the Armenians and Greeks in Istanbul?

You can ban me of course, but I will write in my native language.

Bak güzelim, onlar ikinci kez boğazımızı sıkmaya çalışıyorlar. Birincisinde başaramadılar ve bu yüzden kovuldular. Bizle geçinmek çok mu zordu? Herkese eyvallah dedik, ama yine de yaranamadık. Çünkü pis! müslümanlarla yaşamak istemediler. Herkes ne dolaplar döndüğünü gayet iyi bilir. Kimse traş çekmesin.

Bunlar Türk düşmalığıyla yatıp kalkan adamlar. Pabuç bırakmayın Alevisi, Kürdü, Göçmeni, Lazı, Çerkezi bir araya gelin. Yarın çok pişman oluruz. Bırak faşizmi sosyalizmi şimdi.

I believe Alevigirl88 can freely express and discuss her views and doesn't need your sweet talking and commandeering.

[Alevigirl88]

Re: New pogrom against the Armenians and Greeks in Istanbul?

And I know I have faschistic opinions but I had told years ago on this site that (if they like) I personally want Diaspora Armenians to come Turkey to live here after giving them some properties and making them Turkish citizens as well. Of course our faschists woudn’t want this. If they like they can sell their properties and live in another country. But real faschists wouldn’t want this for sure, would they?

I have no idea about your politcal view, but we (daha çok abilerimiz, Deniz Gezmiş leri bilirsin belki), (that is our older comrades with Kurds too) wanted to create a Socialist Turkey for everyone to live together but we (they) failed. Then K. Evren made a fascist military coup in 1980.

I still have no idea, what is your political view ...? You're ideas/opinions are full of contradictions. You say you have fascist opinions and then you talk about socialists??? A real socialist has NONE fascist ideals.

[Gavur]

Re: New pogrom against the Armenians and Greeks in Istanbul?

Believe me it will be simpler (and cheaper) for Turkey to give us back Armenia, rather then face all the claims of 1.5 million civil suits for wrongful murder, by their newly neutralized Armenian citizens.BTW we have great comments made by our Turkish members of this forums congrats to all, and thanks for contributing.

[Mukuch]

Re: New pogrom against the Armenians and Greeks in Istanbul?

Since the last 24th April, I have tried to follow every bit of article upon Armenian -Turkish relations published in Turkey. Some of you might be well aware that (due to some of yours good command of Turkish language) the issue is discussed somewhat differently than it was used to before. Some political comentators consider this as a positive step towards free speech in Turkey which I agree upon.

I started to think that there exists a powerful Armenian lobby in Turkey. Eventhough mainstream media and vast majority of people do not have positive opinions about Armenia and Armenians just like opposite case in Armenia and Armenian diaspora, the road map and protocol which was lately signed have taken some good reactions as well. As far as I can understand the Armenian population in Turkey is more optimistic for the future.

Let me be clear about the way you think. There are exact the same copies of your opinions in Turkey too simply the Turkish versions. Besides, because of the population difference, there are far more people who think this way. Honestly, if both parties try to preserve their stances just like you and you Turkish version, only my Turkish fellow will keep enjoying the status quo but not you.

My stance on the issue is that whether or not the events can be be named as genocide, these great atrocities must be well known by Turkish citizens especially by the Turkish youth keeping in mind that these dark incidents took place not only in the history of Turkish nation but also in the history of some other nations.

It is an undeniable fact that hundreds of thousands of Armenian citizen of the Ottoman Empire lost their lives and much more lost their properties within the boundaries of the empire. This, I believe, must somehow be compensated and rights of these Armenians must be returned to the heirs of the victims of these atrocities so to speak.

Suggestion of some Turkish citizens to the Armenians such as 'those who can prove their link to the Ottoman Empire must be granted with Turkish citizenship' is far more than a gesture for me but some sort of a will or a call to make a better country. What I am telling is not a solution propasal, maybe more like a dream. We should not forget that none of the nations actually possesses the land. As a Turkish citizen, I think that the best and unfortunately the most unlikely solution is to make the land 'ours' again.

Regarding to your question, No Turk in this country can or will accept the peaceful solution you propose simply because it is not peaceful. No Turk is less right than you to claim the same land as his or her land now. This makes you even. The land belongs to both of you. If you are unable to accept this simple fact, you will never actually be able to share the land with your Turkish neighbor.

Well I will live alone your suggestions that turks have as much rights to the lands they have stolen from people they have killed as the rightfull owners.
That is just stupid to say...

About "sharing" land with turks... well we have "shared" it ones and how it ended? What is the guaranty that will not repeat again?

Thanks, but no thanks...

[Mukuch]

Re: New pogrom against the Armenians and Greeks in Istanbul?

Turanism is just as dangerous as any ethnic nationalist ideology, including the Dashnaks.

LOL, interesting. And how dashnak ideology is dangerous? And for who?
What the xxxx you know about dashnak ideology?

[firat]

Re: New pogrom against the Armenians and Greeks in Istanbul?

We wouldn't want that, either. Why the hell would we move back to OUR ancient lands only to become TURKISH citizens?? Do you have a legitimate reason why the indigenous people of a lands would convert to citizens of distant invaders of those lands? Do you have a legitimate reason why, after occupying those lands for thousands of years, we'd move back only to be under the rule of a nation that moved in a few hundred years ago? Do you have a legitimate reason why we would want to voluntarily become citizens of a nation that slaughtered 1.5 million of our people, took our properties and wealth, and stole our ancient homelands to begin with? A nation that has denied that crime for nearly 100 years? A nation that stole our culture, food and music, and today, not only tries to pass it off as their own, but has the nerve to say WE (the ancient Anatolians) stole our Anatolian culture from THEM (Mongols from Central Asia)?? How does that sound enticing or reasonable to you by any stretch of the imagination? That's not a peaceful solution. That's a slap in the face. An insult to all those that perished at the hands of your ancestors.

This type of mentality is precisely why we'll never reach a "peaceful solution". It has nothing to do with the diaspora not wanting a resolution. The problem is your supposed "peaceful solution" revolves around "let's just forget about the past, and be friends. Don't mention what we did to your people again, hmm? Maybe we'll even let you come live on 'our' land. Deal?" You Turks just don't get it, do you? You don't get that those aren't your lands. The solution must not only be peaceful, but it must be just as well, and the only just solution is to formally admit and apologize for your ancestors crimes, and return those lands to its rightful owner; Armenia. THAT is the only "just, peaceful solution" to our relations. We're all for that solution. I don't think there's a single person in the diaspora that wouldn't go for that resolution.

NOW PLEASE ANSWER MY QUESTION HONESTLY:

DOES TURKEY WANT THIS JUST, PEACEFUL SOLUTION BETWEEN TURKEY AND ARMENIA?

Since the last 24th April, I have tried to follow every bit of article upon Armenian -Turkish relations published in Turkey. Some of you might be well aware that (due to some of yours good command of Turkish language) the issue is discussed somewhat differently than it was used to before. Some political comentators consider this as a positive step towards free speech in Turkey which I agree upon.

I started to think that there exists a powerful Armenian lobby in Turkey. Eventhough mainstream media and vast majority of people do not have positive opinions about Armenia and Armenians just like opposite case in Armenia and Armenian diaspora, the road map and protocol which was lately signed have taken some good reactions as well. As far as I can understand the Armenian population in Turkey is more optimistic for the future.

Let me be clear about the way you think. There are exact the same copies of your opinions in Turkey too simply the Turkish versions. Besides, because of the population difference, there are far more people who think this way. Honestly, if both parties try to preserve their stances just like you and you Turkish version, only my Turkish fellow will keep enjoying the status quo but not you.

My stance on the issue is that whether or not the events can be be named as genocide, these great atrocities must be well known by Turkish citizens especially by the Turkish youth keeping in mind that these dark incidents took place not only in the history of Turkish nation but also in the history of some other nations.

It is an undeniable fact that hundreds of thousands of Armenian citizen of the Ottoman Empire lost their lives and much more lost their properties within the boundaries of the empire. This, I believe, must somehow be compensated and rights of these Armenians must be returned to the heirs of the victims of these atrocities so to speak.

Suggestion of some Turkish citizens to the Armenians such as 'those who can prove their link to the Ottoman Empire must be granted with Turkish citizenship' is far more than a gesture for me but some sort of a will or a call to make a better country. What I am telling is not a solution propasal, maybe more like a dream. We should not forget that none of the nations actually possesses the land. As a Turkish citizen, I think that the best and unfortunately the most unlikely solution is to make the land 'ours' again.

Regarding to your question, No Turk in this country can or will accept the peaceful solution you propose simply because it is not peaceful. No Turk is less right than you to claim the same land as his or her land now. This makes you even. The land belongs to both of you. If you are unable to accept this simple fact, you will never actually be able to share the land with your Turkish neighbor.

[Jos]

Re: New pogrom against the Armenians and Greeks in Istanbul?

We wouldn't want that, either. Why the hell would we move back to OUR ancient lands only to become TURKISH citizens?? Do you have a legitimate reason why the indigenous people of a lands would convert to citizens of distant invaders of those lands? Do you have a legitimate reason why, after occupying those lands for thousands of years, we'd move back only to be under the rule of a nation that moved in a few hundred years ago? Do you have a legitimate reason why we would want to voluntarily become citizens of a nation that slaughtered 1.5 million of our people, took our properties and wealth, and stole our ancient homelands to begin with? A nation that has denied that crime for nearly 100 years? A nation that stole our culture, food and music, and today, not only tries to pass it off as their own, but has the nerve to say WE (the ancient Anatolians) stole our Anatolian culture from THEM (Mongols from Central Asia)?? How does that sound enticing or reasonable to you by any stretch of the imagination? That's not a peaceful solution. That's a slap in the face. An insult to all those that perished at the hands of your ancestors.

This type of mentality is precisely why we'll never reach a "peaceful solution". It has nothing to do with the diaspora not wanting a resolution. The problem is your supposed "peaceful solution" revolves around "let's just forget about the past, and be friends. Don't mention what we did to your people again, hmm? Maybe we'll even let you come live on 'our' land. Deal?" You Turks just don't get it, do you? You don't get that those aren't your lands. The solution must not only be peaceful, but it must be just as well, and the only just solution is to formally admit and apologize for your ancestors crimes, and return those lands to its rightful owner; Armenia. THAT is the only "just, peaceful solution" to our relations. We're all for that solution. I don't think there's a single person in the diaspora that wouldn't go for that resolution.

NOW PLEASE ANSWER MY QUESTION HONESTLY:

DOES TURKEY WANT THIS JUST, PEACEFUL SOLUTION BETWEEN TURKEY AND ARMENIA?

NO is the only realistic answer to your question.

Your asking for some form of genuflection. That is, for every Turk to bend their knee as a sign of reverence in a subservient manner and ask for forgiveness and forsake materialism to reach a point of enlightened spirituality.

Unless Turks turn into a nation of Tibetan monks in my lifetime your concept of a peaceful solution just isn't going to happen!

[Crimson Glow]

Re: New pogrom against the Armenians and Greeks in Istanbul?

And I know I have faschistic opinions but I had told years ago on this site that (if they like) I personally want Diaspora Armenians to come Turkey to live here after giving them some properties and making them Turkish citizens as well. Of course our faschists woudn’t want this.

We wouldn't want that, either. Why the hell would we move back to OUR ancient lands only to become TURKISH citizens?? Do you have a legitimate reason why the indigenous people of a lands would convert to citizens of distant invaders of those lands? Do you have a legitimate reason why, after occupying those lands for thousands of years, we'd move back only to be under the rule of a nation that moved in a few hundred years ago? Do you have a legitimate reason why we would want to voluntarily become citizens of a nation that slaughtered 1.5 million of our people, took our properties and wealth, and stole our ancient homelands to begin with? A nation that has denied that crime for nearly 100 years? A nation that stole our culture, food and music, and today, not only tries to pass it off as their own, but has the nerve to say WE (the ancient Anatolians) stole our Anatolian culture from THEM (Mongols from Central Asia)?? How does that sound enticing or reasonable to you by any stretch of the imagination? That's not a peaceful solution. That's a slap in the face. An insult to all those that perished at the hands of your ancestors.

This type of mentality is precisely why we'll never reach a "peaceful solution". It has nothing to do with the diaspora not wanting a resolution. The problem is your supposed "peaceful solution" revolves around "let's just forget about the past, and be friends. Don't mention what we did to your people again, hmm? Maybe we'll even let you come live on 'our' land. Deal?" You Turks just don't get it, do you? You don't get that those aren't your lands. The solution must not only be peaceful, but it must be just as well, and the only just solution is to formally admit and apologize for your ancestors crimes, and return those lands to its rightful owner; Armenia. THAT is the only "just, peaceful solution" to our relations. We're all for that solution. I don't think there's a single person in the diaspora that wouldn't go for that resolution.

NOW PLEASE ANSWER MY QUESTION HONESTLY:

DOES TURKEY WANT THIS JUST, PEACEFUL SOLUTION BETWEEN TURKEY AND ARMENIA?

[Yedtarts]

Re: New pogrom against the Armenians and Greeks in Istanbul?

Yes, its true. I would like to debate that very subject with you, but you seem to be too much of an extremist. By the way, I am first and foremost an individual, not just a Turk.

You’re saying it as if being an extremist is a bad thing, actually I am an extreme extremist, I extremely love my nation and my people, and I am extremely proud of our heritage and our history, I am also extremely pro Jesus and a fanatic Christian. I think if someone betrays or harms any of these values should be hang from his balls.

See the difference between you and me is: I can proudly say, I first and foremost am an Armenian and that's not a bad thing at all!!!!