Peace at home, peace on earth:Mustafa Kemal Ataturk

[karoaper]

My family is Bolsahai (Armenians from Istanbul), and they seem to hold Ataturk in high esteem, as he greatly modernized the Turkish state according to European standards.

Just because someone is speaking "blasphemy", does not mean you have to stoop down to their level. And in my opinion, loveataturk poses no threat to us, even though he does not understand the degree of the bloodshed and the manner in which it was spilled. Explain this to him, rather than telling ...

I've gotta address some issues that concern me about your post, even though I certainly agree with some of the points, namely that our focus has to be directly inward towards strengthening our nation. However, I don't see why we can't fight to educate the world about the Genocide and drag Turks' noses through their muck while we're strengthening Armenia and the global Armenian community.

OK, my main concern is this Ataturk. My initial reaction when the entire peoples worship a single person like a god and put all their blessings on his shoulders, is that either this man is a dictator and a tirant who has created an entire institution of lies glorifying him or the system of government has done so in oder to direct the people's attention away from the reality of corruption and greed. You saw this in Soviet Union, where people were brainwashed into believing that Lenin was a demigod, the immortal father who was the cause of all good. Thus Soviets would never believe and willingly conceed that Russians had committed a Genocide of Ukrainians or that the whole system was incredibly corrupt and evil. The same you have in Turkey, where the people are either sheep who know absolutely nothing of truth and don't really care, or people who know very well but are downright evil scum who say under their breath that Armenians deserved it (that includes the massacres, rape and pillage and of couse the horrific deportations).

So, Ataturk modernized Turkey. With what incredible riches did he achieve this feat at the time when the country was dirt poor and just coming out war? The answer is the riches and wealth that the criminal regime stole and robbed from a million and half of OUR people. So to admire this scum makes absolutely no sense to me.

Then, you say let's listen to his side of the story. I say we have and we have a lot. It's absolutely the same story we've heard thousands of times before. To "want to know the truth" and not know it yet after so much has been written and so much discussed is simply impossible. It's obvious that rather than hearing what we're saying, the turks that come here want to make us hear what they're saying, which is the same droll that Armenians backstabbed Turks and then Turks had to "pacify" us. Maybe then some will conceed that "Yes, many Armenians died and that's tragic". But, since Armenians stood up to the defense of their people against the barbaric way they were treated since before Hamidian Massacres, Turks are excused by drawing the civil war/self-defense card. It's an extremely simple argument, which they have been using since forever. So, I honestly don't know what loveata could tell us that is new and enlightening.

Finally I totally agree that noone expects Turks to give back the land willingly. Germans wouldn't have made reparations, if the Allies hadn't forced them. The same must hold with the Turks. They must either be forced militarily (yes through war where we destroy their armies and take back our land) or politically (and luckily we're doing better on this front). I also agree that right now, at least militarily we're nowhere near ready to take back our lands. But, my hope is that the desire to do so will not die ever, so that one day when the tide has turned we can be victorious. As far as politically, I also agree that things don't look too favorably for us, due to as you said the need of world nations to keep the peaceand stability, except in cases when chaos plays into their hands, and Turkey's geopolitical allignment in the world of politics that is very favorable to US and Israel.

I didn't mean to be harsh or arrogant. You're an Armenian and thus a brother. But some of your points were troublesome to me.

[winoman]

obviously some people are unfamiliar with events that occured in the Caucuses, in Cilicia and in Smyrna in the early 1920s. Again - please do your research. I am a great admirer of Ataturk - for many reasons - but he was no friend to Armenians - quite the opposite.

[jgk3]

My family is Bolsahai (Armenians from Istanbul), and they seem to hold Ataturk in high esteem, as he greatly modernized the Turkish state according to European standards.

Just because someone is speaking "blasphemy", does not mean you have to stoop down to their level. And in my opinion, loveataturk poses no threat to us, even though he does not understand the degree of the bloodshed and the manner in which it was spilled. Explain this to him, rather than telling him to go to Turkmenistan. There is much to be learned from both sides of the issue, loveataturk can explain to you the political aspect (if I were a ruler uner those circumstances, I'd certainly deport populations who were led by warring bandits), while we can explain the ethical aspect of what happened in 1915 (I would not drive them to deserts and get the Kurds to cut their throats, but instead treat them as the English treated the Welsh when they ruled over them in the 14th century. I'd set up hundreds and hundreds of fortresses in their lands to establish order swiftly and decisively should a rebellion arise. When more stability returned to my empire, I'd loosen this policy and allow the minorities to return to the cities again).

This, however, does not pacify our issues, it merely explains both sides of the story. This will not crush the Armenian desire to reclaim their former glory at the expense of the Turks. We were beaten, over and over again, we got a genocide, our country is now isolated, yet as things stand, we will never be able to reclaim anything, and will continue to hold our justifiable anger against our enemies. However, the Armenia of today is in shambles, it is a corrupt and poor nation. Our ancient lands serve nothing more than cultural remedy, at least for the time being.

We can't expect Turkey to just hand over this land back, it would seriously damage their nation and the esteem of their people for their leaders. It would result in revolution and terrorism. Should the land survive a Turkish assault, a leadership under today's Armenian government would be unfruitful. There is no capital available to us to set up a decent infrastructure, even in the land we currently possess, so we are at a dilemma.

All we can hope for is the downfall of Turkey. However, this would create a major political vacuum, and it would take more than 50 years for stability to return to these lands and their neighboring nations. This thought simply isn't feasible, and it's effects on an international scale would be devastating. The Turks would still not acknowledge the genocide, and they'll feel like an unjustifiable punishment has been inflicted upon them. They'd try to kill us all with their bare hands should something like this happen. Expect suicide bommers, expect more mass killings, expect more terror, with your dream of compensation for what happened to Armenia in 1915. Expect the world to rally on the side of the Turks, as it would be much more advantageous to them for their nation to survive. Globalization cannot favour our cause.

All I can suggest for the time being is to strengthen our nation, which clearly isn't happening, now that the Americans are going to suck us dry with their capitalism.

If we became a powerful state, then we can make ammends, but as things stand, we're just a bunch of hobos who want some rich man to hand us over his 12 story apartment building.

[TomServo]

Your land is waiting for you in Turkmenistan.

[loveataturk]

What is it about Ataturk that concerns Armenian people? I sincerely under Talat Pasa and his DEPORTATION decision against the rebellion militia and their supporting "let's break up the Turkish land and grab ourselves some land" Armenians, in fact I SUPPORT HIS DECISION even today! Talat was a far sighted politician who found a good and far more peaceful solution to the Armenian Rebellion, simply, squash the armed Armenian bandits, and deport Armenian people so that they can no longer pose a threat to the already weakened Ottoman State.

But, what about Ataturk? What has he done on his agenda for or against Armenians??

Are Armenians simply upset that he was simply a brilliant soldier who brought the despicable Christian invaders (French, British, Italian, Greek.....) to their nkness and expelled them forum OUR LAND, anatolia?

[Sip]

Yah the dude's name is insult enough for himself.

[jgk3]

by the same token, Armenians should not use similar insults for Loveataturk.

[Siggie]

loveataturk read the forum rules if you plan to post here any length of time. Don't insult other members by saying things like there is no abundance of intelligent people in Armenia or you will be permanently banned.

[Hayq]

wow I have never been to that site.

HAHA, lame. They really say that they want to unite the country.

UNited Armenia.

[Culture]

While whoever wants to love Ataturk, may do so...please check out the protest section of the picture gallery in www.ayfwest.org to see what the general Armenian youth think.