Armenian Patriarch Of Turkey Issues Bold Message On Genocide

[nunechka]

Armenian - all of this time i didnt mind your posts... but you are making no sense here... look we have a large HAYASTANTSI! diaspora here in LA... i am Armenian American... i love Armenia and I love America... i have 2 nations to be a part of and i take advantage of that...

it is really ignorant and stupid of you to say that a diaspora Armenian is as good as a *urk... that is a SHAME! SHAME ON YOU!

This website (forum.armenianclub.com) would not have been created if it wasnt for us here in the diaspora... if it would've please tell me where i can go that is a forum that is created by armenians in armenia... and this forum isnt maintained by armenians in armenia... we do it here in the US... AND if you didnt notice that we here in the diaspora fight vehmently for the recognition of the genocide everyday, all day, and we make sure we know our history, and we love armenia...

what about the MAN WHO making sure your streets are paved? he just happens to be KIRK KRIKORIAN! a diaspora... i guess you dont like having paved streets to drive on... maybe he should cut his funding...? i am not sure, what do you think?

Armenians here in the US BOYCOTT *urkish goods, in armenia they wear it like its the best thing since sliced bread...

Armenians in the diaspora have this fondness and romantic love with armenia that you dont understand... however we dont think that you are less armenian because you dont love armenia in the same way... remember the Gharabagh war? guess who came to fight the war? the DIASPORA!


i am really dissapointed...

[Armenian]

Nunechkan Jan, it would be nice if you read everything I wrote, you are missing the points I have made. I am not a Hayastantsi, I am a Diasporan Armenian like you.

Armenian - all of this time i didnt mind your posts... but you are making no sense here... look we have a large HAYASTANTSI! diaspora here in LA... i am Armenian American... i love Armenia and I love America... i have 2 nations to be a part of and i take advantage of that...it is really ignorant and stupid of you to say that a diaspora Armenian is as good as a *urk... that is a SHAME! SHAME ON YOU!

I never said a Diaporan Armenian is as good as a Turk. I am a Diasporan Armenian. I also love America and Armenia. But my spiritual attachment is with Armenia - not America. I call "Christian Turks" those Turkified Armenians who come here from Turkey and look down at Hayastantsis and, moreover, could care less about Hayastan. If a Diasporan Armenian does not love his/her Armenian homeland then he/she is worthless. I am sure you agree.

This website (forum.armenianclub.com) would not have been created if it wasnt for us here in the diaspora... if it would've please tell me where i can go that is a forum that is created by armenians in armenia... and this forum isnt maintained by armenians in armenia... we do it here in the US... AND if you didnt notice that we here in the diaspora fight vehmently for the recognition of the genocide everyday, all day, and we make sure we know our history, and we love armenia..

Yes Nunechka Jan, I know all this and I am very greatful to the administration of this discussion forum.

what about the MAN WHO making sure your streets are paved? he just happens to be KIRK KRIKORIAN! a diaspora... i guess you dont like having paved streets to drive on... maybe he should cut his funding...? i am not sure, what do you think?

Yes Nunechka Jan, I know this as well. I also know that hundreds of millions of Dollars are sent to Armenia by Hayastantsis every year. Also, of the many millions of Diasporan Armenians, how many Kirk Krikorians or Hovnanians do we have? Most Diasporan Armenians are self-hating and worthless. You don't see it perhaps, because you are surrounded by ethinc Armenians. Nonetheless, a majority of Diasporan Armenians within the west are assimilated beyond hope.

Armenians here in the US BOYCOTT *urkish goods, in armenia they wear it like its the best thing since sliced bread...

Nunechka, you know this is BS. Many Diasporan Armenians (Lebanese, Turkish, Syrian ect) adore Turkish music, Turkish films and Turkish food. Perhaps you don't know Diasporan Armenians too well. And no, Armenians in Armenia don't think of Turkish goods as the best thing since sliced bread. I don't know where you are getting your ideas from. I hope you don't converse with street prostitutes in Yerevan.

Armenians in the diaspora have this fondness and romantic love with armenia that you dont understand... however we dont think that you are less armenian because you dont love armenia in the same way... remember the Gharabagh war? guess who came to fight the war? the DIASPORA!

I do understand romantic love towards Armenia, I was born in Lebanon, grew up in New York City and I am planning on moveing to Armenia in the near future. However, you are wrong regarding the war in Artsakh. The Armenian Disapora did help by sending money, and the ARF did send several hundred fighters. However, it was the Russians that gave Armenia billions of dollars of weapons, and it was Hayastantsis/Artsakhtsis that fought in the tens of thousands. Please put things in a proper perspective.

i am really dissapointed... :

Don't be dissapointed, there is still hope for individuals like me.

Again, there is ONE Armenia for all Armenians. There should be no such thing as an Americahai, or Russahai, or Parskahai - we are Armenian. The entire purpose of the Armenian Diaspora is to serve the homeland. Therefore, you can be a good Diasporan Armenian as long as you have a real attachment to the Armenian homeland.

Anyway, the topic of this thread has nothing to do with "Hayastantsis versus Spiurkahais," it has to do with the Turkish filth representing our Church in Istanbul.

[Vachagan]

Enough arguing! Better act...

Nunechkan Jan, it would be nice if you read everything I wrote, you are missing the points I have made. I am not a Hayastantsi, I am a Diasporan Armenian like you.



I never said a Diaporan Armenian is as good as a Turk. I am a Diasporan Armenian. I also love America and Armenia. But my spiritual attachment is with Armenia - not America. I call "Christian Turks" those Turkified Armenians who come here from Turkey and look down at Hayastantsis and, moreover, could care less about Hayastan. If a Diasporan Armenian does not love his/her Armenian homeland then he/she is worthless. I am sure you agree.



Yes Nunechka Jan, I know all this and I am very greatful to the administration of this discussion forum.



Yes Nunechka Jan, I know this as well. I also know that hundreds of millions of Dollars are sent to Armenia by Hayastantsis every year. Also, of the many millions of Diasporan Armenians, how many Kirk Krikorians or Hovnanians do we have? Most Diasporan Armenians are self-hating and worthless. You don't see it perhaps, because you are surrounded by ethinc Armenians. Nonetheless, a majority of Diasporan Armenians within the west are assimilated beyond hope.



Nunechka, you know this is BS. Many Diasporan Armenians (Lebanese, Turkish, Syrian ect) adore Turkish music, Turkish films and Turkish food. Perhaps you don't know Diasporan Armenians too well. And no, Armenians in Armenia don't think of Turkish goods as the best thing since sliced bread. I don't know where you are getting your ideas from. I hope you don't converse with street prostitutes in Yerevan.



I do understand romantic love towards Armenia, I was born in Lebanon, grew up in New York City and I am planning on moveing to Armenia in the near future. However, you are wrong regarding the war in Artsakh. The Armenian Disapora did help by sending money, and the ARF did send several hundred fighters. However, it was the Russians that gave Armenia billions of dollars of weapons, and it was Hayastantsis/Artsakhtsis that fought in the tens of thousands. Please put things in a proper perspective.



Don't be dissapointed, there is still hope for individuals like me.

Again, there is ONE Armenia for all Armenians. There should be no such thing as an Americahai, or Russahai, or Parskahai - we are Armenian. The entire purpose of the Armenian Diaspora is to serve the homeland. Therefore, you can be a good Diasporan Armenian as long as you have a real attachment to the Armenian homeland.

Anyway, the topic of this thread has nothing to do with "Hayastantsis versus Spiurkahais," it has to do with the Turkish filth representing our Church in Istanbul.

Dear Armenian!

I am surprized at your coments (in a good way).
I was born in Armenia in a family of educators. My grandfather Vachagan showed me an old black and white picture of his parents (teachers) and his siblings (he was not born yet) after they had crossed the border between Ottoman Empire and Russian Empire during the massacre. They were safe in "Rusahayastan". They saved themselves, their Bible and other books.
I lived in Armenia for the first 22 years of my life, after I worked as a diplomat (from USSR) in Egypt, Libya. Lived in Moscow for years and loved it... and was always proud to be Armenian. I took my son and my daughter to Armenian church in Moscow and baptised them there.
I am so glad that you see Russia's positive influence. You see, most of our "Spyurkahays" are making serious mistake by mixing Russia with "Soviet". Even though, during Soviets Armenia had 70 years of peace (in a meaning that no one invaded our territory), flourished economically. Armenians were considred one of the most wealthy nations among republics of the USSR. For 70 years we did ot fear of genocides. Yes, there were political repressions during first two decades of young commuinst state, but Russians suffered more than any other ethic group.
I live in Florida, came to the US in 1995 due to my business and now I am an educator, professor of History, International Relations and Political Science. I miss Yerevan, Garni and Gegkart.
I hope we will be above "little" talks about who is from where and will recognise ourselves as people of one blood, one language and one religion.
In regards of Turks and Turkey.
I think we have nothing to lose and we have to be extremely bold and harsh on all subjects. No room for diplomatic games and political prostitution.

[bell-the-cat]

You see, most of our "Spyurkahays" are making serious mistake by mixing Russia with "Soviet".

After 800 years of Persian or Turkish (mis)rule Armenia was a land full of ruined cities, abandoned fields, mudbrick villages, earth roads, and peasants. All that began to change once Russia gained control of eastern Armenia.

[Thai-Samurai]

Right now Armenian's biggest problem are the Greedy Armenians. The new Hrabarak circle, "officially" cost 1 million dollars to build. In reality it cost $100,000. Where did the rest go? New roads officially are to be 8 cm think, but their 6 cm thick. Where does the money go? You see homes built like palaces. Even Europe doesn't have homes like that? The whole country works by corruption. A doctor , friend of my mom in Gyumri was telling us how her laboratory was perfect w/ all regulations. But a checkup group came from Yerevan. And even though they didn't find anything wrong, still fined them $100. They were barely able to pay this.
And that's what makes me mad. The Dashnaks useto arm villagers because Turks and Kurds would come and demand goats and sheep, and money. Now Armenians are going to other Armenians and demanding money.
If Armenia is able to completely wipe out corruption; and make sure no money is laundered into greedy hands we will have millions left over; we'll be able to invest in technology, modernization, roads, etc. Modernize all the villages. And cause a huge renaissance. Sure we're making progress now, but it's a slow crawl compared to what we're capable of without the corruption.
If you start a business here, first you have to bribe everyone in order to get itup and running. Once it's actualy really succesfull, the "mafia" comes and takes it away from you.

[Red Brigade]

Right now Armenian's biggest problem are the Greedy Armenians. The new Hrabarak circle, "officially" cost 1 million dollars to build. In reality it cost $100,000. Where did the rest go? New roads officially are to be 8 cm think, but their 6 cm thick. Where does the money go? You see homes built like palaces. Even Europe doesn't have homes like that? The whole country works by corruption. A doctor , friend of my mom in Gyumri was telling us how her laboratory was perfect w/ all regulations. But a checkup group came from Yerevan. And even though they didn't find anything wrong, still fined them $100. They were barely able to pay this.
And that's what makes me mad. The Dashnaks useto arm villagers because Turks and Kurds would come and demand goats and sheep, and money. Now Armenians are going to other Armenians and demanding money.
If Armenia is able to completely wipe out corruption; and make sure no money is laundered into greedy hands we will have millions left over; we'll be able to invest in technology, modernization, roads, etc. Modernize all the villages. And cause a huge renaissance. Sure we're making progress now, but it's a slow crawl compared to what we're capable of without the corruption.
If you start a business here, first you have to bribe everyone in order to get itup and running. Once it's actualy really succesfull, the "mafia" comes and takes it away from you.

I agree with everything.Let's hope the others wake up at last and see what is happening before its too late.Those Mafiosos ,and their puppet politicians are the biggest cancer and obstacle of our country.If we could reduce the corruption in Armenia ,bring back normal politicians and with a diaspora like this ,we would definately become a regional economical and militay power in Transcaucasia, in just few years.

[bell-the-cat]

The new Hrabarak circle, "officially" cost 1 million dollars to build. In reality it cost $100,000.

A 10:1 ration of kickbacks to actual costs is probably about average for the whole region.
In Turkey it is often 20:1.
In Indonesia, to judge from the spending of Tsunami relief funds so far, it is 100:1.

[karoaper]

Here's the index of most corrupted countries. Armenia is not on it. Guess which other countries are.

http://www.heritagekonpa.com/Haiti%20archives/World%20Corruption.htm

http://www.globalcorruptionreport.org/download.html

Armenia is not on either list. This doesn't mean we don't have great corruption. We do and Tai, what you said was dead on. But to me it is a great source of pride, that with the economic blockade, the war and the dissmally poor collection of natural resources, Armenia still manages to be the least corrupt country in the region. Then again maybe it is because of those reasons that we are. I also think the war has managed to pull the people together. Wars have also brought our people together.

[Armenian]

Armenia is not on either list. This doesn't mean we don't have great corruption. We do and Tai, what you said was dead on. But to me it is a great source of pride, that with the economic blockade, the war and the dissmally poor collection of natural resources, Armenia still manages to be the least corrupt country in the region.

I agree with you Karo.

Most Armenians fail to realize that Armenia, relatively speaking, is doing just fine. The sad reality is that there will always be corruption, its human nature. This negative aspect of human nature will not change, not even for us Armenians. As a matter of fact, all major nations were built up by the corrupt, just take a look at sociopolitical beginings of England, France, Italy and Russia. Heck, NYC city just a hundred years ago had a criminal for a mayor.

I know that there are problems within Armenian society today. However, we need to put things in a proper perspective. When one realizes that Armenians had been under eight hundered years of Turko-Islamic occupation, followed by eighty years of communism, followed by economic collapse, followed war and blockade, one realizes that Armenia today is doing just fine.

I just got back from my fifth visit to the country. Take it from me, its not as bad as some people make it sound. Most of the problems there are simply a result of Soviet mentalities and financial problems. Thus, they are temporary.

[Red Brigade]

Most Armenians fail to realize that Armenia, relatively speaking, is doing just fine. The sad reality is that there will always be corruption, its human nature. This negative aspect of human nature will not change, not even for us Armenians.

When we speak about corruption in Armenia , we don't talk about the people who are trying to steal each other in order to survive, we are taking about those counted in fingers ''businessmen'' who are literaly controling the economy and the parliament of Armenia,we saw that when they assasinated the members of the Parliament.
Many things will change regarding the borders of the Middle East soon.Armenia must be ready to take advantage of the circumstances.That can happen only with a healthy Government.

Most of the problems there are simply a result of Soviet mentalities and financial problems.

If it wasn't for the Soviet Union , Armenia would be a village.