Do you want revenge?

[Otto]

mr. winoman is there an international treaty regarding genocide... i think it was signed in 1948 and signed by US at 1988( i dont mean anything by that) because last night i watched a tv program about cancelled conferance about Armenian genocide and somebody said that it was not possible for the Armenians to request for land according to that treaty..... i just missed the name of the treaty and some part of the discussion..... and also a very old and a very foxy diplomat of ours said that it is Turkeys obligation to open the borders according to 1921 Kars treaty... .. your comments?

[winoman]

You are refering to the UN Genocide Convention. It does not address lands per se - but does establish that there is no statute of limitation for the crime of Genocide and lays out the UN definition for Genocide. BTW this is what Lemkin worked to pass (see my post [of Fadix's presentation] on him that references this). In fact the Armenian case was what prompted his efforts to develop such and Lemkin and the UN used both the Holocaust and the Armenian Genocide as frameworks for developing this concept of Genocide.

Kars treaty was violated by Turkey who took additional territories (from what had been promissed Russia) during the 1920s (but was acutally Armenia at the time...So in this regard perhaps these states do have legitimate land claims against Turkey - but as Kocharian stated these are not base on the Genocide (and he left it unsaid otherwise)...

[bell-the-cat]

Kars treaty was violated by Turkey who took additional territories (from what had been promissed Russia) during the 1920s (but was acutally Armenia at the time...So in this regard perhaps these states do have legitimate land claims against Turkey - but as Kocharian stated these are not base on the Genocide (and he left it unsaid otherwise)...

Another wino-ism? Seems that if you can't bother to find things out you often just make them up.

The 1921 Treaty of Kars fixed the current border between the Soviet Republic of Armenia and the Republic of Turkey. That border has not changed in the last 84 years - i.e. it has not changed since the signing.

[Otto]

i think there is no problem with Treaty of Kars... those guys said UN Genocide Convention was not working bacwards(it was the term they used.... i think that means back in the history)..i just couldnt understand idea.... no big deal.... i read that post about Lemkin for your information

[Red Brigade]

The Treaty of Kars was signed between the Turkish Republic and Soviet Union.It was not signed by Armenia.The Republic of Armenia doesn't recognise the treaty of Kars.

[vatepiti]

So honestly state that how many square kilometer of lands do you demand from Turkey to shut up your mouths. And how much money do you demand also. Be honest, and don't behave as if "we are poor victims who just demand the recognise of genocide"
How much do you want?

[winoman]

So honestly state that how many square kilometer of lands do you demand from Turkey to shut up your mouths. And how much money do you demand also. Be honest, and don't behave as if "we are poor victims who just demand the recognise of genocide"
How much do you want?

Do you not at all understand that this is entirely not the issue?

[Red Brigade]

We do not demand any lands of Turkey,since Turkrey's historic lands are in Central Asia.
Armenia simpy wants its divine right to liberate its most historic lands , which are located in the west of the Armenian Highlands.The borders of Armenia will contain at least all of the Armenian Highlands and the Armenian plateau.

http://www.geocities.com/master8885/Maps/cama_1840.jpg

There is an ancient Roman map in that link showing the Real Armenia.As you can see yourself, Turkey doesn't exist in that Map,hence Turkey's historic lands aren't located in Asia Minor but somewhere in Central Asia.
However we do not demand Turks to ''go back where they came from : Mongolia'' as some claim.We simply want our historic lands and an apology for the Genocide ,which you have made to exterminate the ancient inhabitands of the Armenian Plateau and of the Armenian Highlands.
Whether you agree or not is rather irrelevant.It is inevitable that one day,in the far future, we will get what we want, which is the very reason that you and the rest of the Turks are sudenly so alarmed with us.

Unfortunately there are many Armenians who just want the recognition of the Armenian Genocide , and not to retain what belongs to us, for thousands of years.

[bell-the-cat]

The Treaty of Kars was signed between the Turkish Republic and Soviet Union.It was not signed by Armenia.The Republic of Armenia doesn't recognise the treaty of Kars.

Wrong and wrong.

The Treaty of Kars was signed between the Turkish Republic and the Soviet Republic of Armenia. Today's Republic of Armenia does recognise the treaty.

http://groong.usc.edu/treaties/kars.html

[Red Brigade]

Wrong and wrong.

The Treaty of Kars was signed between the Turkish Republic and the Soviet Republic of Armenia. Today's Republic of Armenia does recognise the treaty.

http://groong.usc.edu/treaties/kars.html

The Treaty of Kars was signed between the Turkish Republic and the Soviet Union.Soviet Armenia was forced by the Soviet Union to agree with it.
Yes officialy Soviet Armenia is supposed to have ''signed'' the treaty.It would never have been signed without the pressure of Russia.Hence it was practicaly signed between Soviet Union(Russia) and the Turkish Republic.
It would be rather ignorant to ignore under which circumstances, the treaty of Kars was signed,wouldnt be?

http://www.armenianhistory.info/treatyofmoscow.htm

Russia lost Kars, Ardahan and Batum by the Treaty of Brest-Litovsk March 3, 1918. The Turks occupied Kars April 25, 1918 and the Republic of Southwest Caucasus was established in the zone, but when the armistice of Mudros (October 1918) was established the Ottoman army withdrew to the frontiers of 1914. The British occupied Batum but the Ottomans refused to relinquish Kars; its military governor constituted a provisional government led by Fakhr el Din Pirioghlu (known as Fahrettin Pirioghlu) that claimed Turkish sovereignity over Kars and the Turkish-speaking and Islamic neighboring regions to Batum and Gumru (Alexandropol). The region was occupied by Armenia in January 1919 but the pro-Turkish government was supported in the city of Kars until the arrival of the British troops, who dissolved it April 19, 1919 sending its leaders to Malta. Kars was given to Armenia together with Ardahan in May 1919. Following the Turkish War of Independence, Turkey signed the Treaty of Kars (October 23, 1921) with the Soviet Union in which Turkey relinquished claims to Batum in return for sovereignty over Kars and Ardahan. The government of Armenia does not explicitly recognize the current border with Turkey.

http://www.answers.com/topic/kars
6th Paragraph.