Questions Of Genocide

[Otto]

Correction here ... word Armenian never used as an insult in Turkey... altough we have many bad words i dont know anyone with a nations name in it... but i think Armenians have.. i saw somebody was writing *urk... explain this to me first

[anoush719]

This is the definition of racism. No more commend.

Of course you have nothing further to say because you cannot address the issue of bad behavior and wrongdoing.

[bell-the-cat]

Correction here ... word Armenian never used as an insult in Turkey... altough we have many bad words i dont know anyone with a nations name in it.

Your ignorance of your own country is disturbing - but not surprising, since I have always found Turks to surprisingly ill-informed when it concerns their own nation. Sometimes it is just selective blindness, to be sure, but mostly it is just a lack of knowledge, and a lack of any comprehension of why they should try to cure that lack of knowledge. I don't think knowledge is high up on their list of priorities.

[karakitap]

Your ignorance of your own country is disturbing - but not surprising, since I have always found Turks to surprisingly ill-informed when it concerns their own nation. Sometimes it is just selective blindness, to be sure, but mostly it is just a lack of knowledge, and a lack of any comprehension of why they should try to cure that lack of knowledge. I don't think knowledge is high up on their list of priorities.

You don't have anything to say about my reply abou racism? These kind of posts are the ones that show the secret racist inside you. It is a sickness as I told.

[Pamooshjian]

Your ignorance of your own country is disturbing - but not surprising, since I have always found Turks to surprisingly ill-informed when it concerns their own nation. Sometimes it is just selective blindness, to be sure, but mostly it is just a lack of knowledge, and a lack of any comprehension of why they should try to cure that lack of knowledge. I don't think knowledge is high up on their list of priorities.

Contrary to what many people are lead to believe, I'm most certain that most every turk knows their bloody history and not only do they know it, but they are proud of it too. However, there are exeptions regarding their pride in being savages. I met one turk (not a particularly educated turk) who was afraid of me at first when he found out I was Armenian, but when he realized that In wasn't going to kill him just because he was a turk, he did admit there was a genocide commited by his people on the Armenians and he was deeply ashamed of it. He couldn't really find the words to fully and properly express himself, but I could see it all and his sincerity in his eyes. He looked like he wanted to hide under a rock because of the guit he felt, but I could tell that although he did feel some relief in being able to express the shame he felt, he had a heavy burden to carry with no fault of his own. People like this would give anything and everything to be forgiven for something that he himself did not and would never have done and still knowing that even everything could never be enough to clear his concience. I dare say that although he was a turk, he was human unlike most turks I have met where they claim they had heard somthing about a genocide that the Kurds commited on the Armenians, but their eyes give them away.

BTW, even though education is not high on the list of priorities of most turks since they lack the capacity(BTW dear moderators, I hope this isn't considered as an insult as it is a fact that has been stated in numerous books and articles by non Armenian observers that I can quote if need be). Most every turk knows there was a genocide without a doubt. Particularly the ones who frequent Armenian forums.

[Otto]

i still insist on my previous post.... Armenian is not a bad word...if there is tell me what it is..karakitap what do you say?...

[karakitap]

i still insist on my previous post.... Armenian is not a bad word...if there is tell me what it is..karakitap what do you say?...

well, not in the are where you live or in cities but word "armenian" is used as an insult at some places at eastern Turkey. Some villagers use "armenian" for "gavur"or infidel in English. But this can not be considered as racism because when they use this word they don't use it to insult Armenians. Actually the word changed its meaning and is used to refer infidels. No relation with Armenian nation in general. And this usage is not common. Rare, even at eastern villages.

[anoush719]

This is the definition of racism. No more commend.

Isn't that SPECIAL, Special Olympics. Now do tell us all about the word giaour

There's more to it than the "infidel" part.

[karakitap]

Isn't that SPECIAL, Special Olympics. Now do tell us all about the word giaour

There's more to it than the "infidel" part.

well, as I now, there is nothing more than infidel. Gavur=infidel. Nothing more. If you have some more "information" please state. I wonder what will you say.

[cemil]

What really happened?

..
Chapter I
A-3- Armenian Problem:

After Bulgaria seperated from Ottoman State, there was one Christian item left, who hasn’t improved through autonomy or independance: Armenians. But, Armenians had 2 difficulties for improving on these. One is,they were not majority in any region, even in East Anatolia where they were most crowdedly living.Second and more important, this region was difficult for transportation with rough geography, difficult to reach from sea( more important because, for Western big states, where Muslims and Christians were opposing, numbers were not important). In other words, Armenians were living in a region that fleets and armies couldn’t easily reach. All Christian items had managed to seperate from Ottoman State. Also, Armenians used to see Ottomans very weak, and West’s stimulations very believable.Trying this, despite of those unsuitable conditions told above, was a gamble for them; but they, actually the terror organisations which saw that it was their right to act in the name of Armenians, got in this gamble.

Armenians,with Greeks, were bourgeoise of Anatolia. Especially in East and South-East Anatolia, they used to have important place in crafts and trade. They were doing agriculture too. It was their advantage for business,that they were not doing army duty. Since Greek rebellion, they also had got important place in Ottoman burocracy.But, within nationalism feelings were vaccinated to them, their situation started to be unsatisfying for them. Most important factor for nationalism feelings were, American missioner schools,which Americans opened in the places where Armenians lived in most number. The reason why Americans selected Armenians, can be related with , Armenian schools were less developed than Greek schools, and also Armenians were more likely to be Evangelical. A Protestant minority, who knows English and can be tool for interferance, and tool in trade and politics, were wanted for England too.

But, probably, the event that seemed opening doors of hope to Armenians, was 93 War(1877-78 Ottoman-Russian war). In this war, Russians tried to provoke Ottoman Armenians, and they put an article about changes for Armenians , into Ayastefanos Treaty( article:16). Thus, Russian interfere became available. England became anxious because of the probabilty of Russia’s stepping on way of India, on Middle East, by using Armenians.So,England wanted to deal with this case as much as Russia. England gained Cyprus as a price of cancelling Ayastefanos;meanwhile, they made Ottoman accept to make reforms for Christian items. So, in Berlin Treaty, it was predicted to make reforms in places where Armenians lived, and to make them be protected against Kurds and Circassians. Also it was predicted that big states will check these reforms.

When some years passed, Russia started to see that, the countries like Romania and Bulgaria were not allways going to be satellite, and that they can act against Russia benefits for reaching Mediterrenean. Also,when Alexander III became Tsar in 1881, this Tsar started a strict despotism and policy of trying to make other nations Russian.Last Tsar Nikola II(1894-1917) continued his father’s policy. When it was clear that Germans will support Ottomans, there was one state left to help Armenians, England. England also tried to take Russia’s care to Middle East, instead of Far East.Because in Middle East, England could find more state to use against Russia.

İn 1880, big states dealed with Armenian reforms little bit, but they didnt pay a lot care. Hinchak and Dashnaksutyon rebellion organisations were established in 1887 and 1890. Hinchak was established in Geneva, then it moved its center to London. These organisations were willing to repeat the events happened last in Bulgaria : A bloody rebellion, tough beat-down, to call European public-opinion by saying ‘we are killed’, interferance of big states, and autonomy or independance. Thus, events started by 1889: Musa Bey event, Erzurum event(1890), Kumkapi demonstration(1890),Merzifon,Kayseri,Yozgat events(1892-93). The fact that, starting of Armenian events and establishment of Ittihad-i Osmani (Ittihat ve Terakki) happened both in 1889 , can be taken evidance for both events are inspired by same source(100th anniversary of 1789).

But main accelaration year was 1894. That summer, England’s consul of Van travelled in places where Armenians lived. Then, as center Sasun of Bitlis, a bloody rebellion started. Rebellion was beaten down again bloody. England got prepared for tough attempts. Altough Russia,France andGermany was not willing, England managed to offer a reform program with Russia and France. The offers were including articles like; mayor appointments will be with big states’ confirmation, district mayors will come with election, Christians will be gendarme and officer. Abdülhamit rejected this offer and Armenians gathered and walked on to Babiali( Ottoman government’s neighbourhood in Istanbul-September 30,1895) . Altough Sultan didn't send soldier against this demonstrators, Muslim public stood on their way. For 3 days, bloody fights happened. With big states’ reaction, Abdülhamit had to declare a detailed reform program(8.11.1895). But it couldn’t be applied in reality. Also, everyone knew that, even if the reforms were applied totally, Armenians were not going to be satisfied, because they were searching for first autonomy then independance. Armenian actions continued till 1915.

The more-less intelligent people who saw Armenian events in İstanbul with all it’s violence – also IT’ers- gave their decisions as, state is coming to it’s expected end, or at least it is a break down similar with 93 War (In May 1895, with big states’ demand,Abdülhamit put a Christian mayor to Crete, and many people saw this as preperation to island’s seperation). Especially, for IT’ers , it was not pleasing that Armenian actions were more effective than their actions. They thought that , it was time to save the state, and it was seen that Abdülhamit wouldnt do it. For the first time, they prepared 2 notifications and attached on walls. In these papers, it was condemning Armenian actions but pointing that those actions were result of despotism. And public was called not to fight with Armenians but to rebel against palace and government.

(for a paragraph, it is telling how IT increased their works against state and Abdülhamit’s response to these..IT workers were arrested or had to escape Egypt or Europe)

In 1896, events continued. Armenians in Van and Greeks in Crete rebelled. Much more terrific event was, some Armenian guerillas , whom were not understood how they came to İstanbul, attacked and invaded Bank of Ottoman(August 26). This, again caused violent Muslim- Armenian fights. With big states’ demand, bank terrorists were taken out of country. This events showed that Ottoman State was in big crisis. In fact, to get rid of Abdülhamit and to share the country, was daily talk for European diplomats. Most willing country for this was England and most unwilling was Russia. Ittihat ve Terakki started to do more against these dangers. Two strike attempts to take the government couldn't manage and stopped before starting.

As a result, we see that 1895 was a turning point because of Armenian events’ effects. Opposition against Abdülhamit got stronger, he responsed these with increase of despotism, taking all decision authority to palace, using ‘halifelik’ more to refer.
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Chapter III

B-6-Armenian Tehcir (forced migration):

We understand that, big hopes appeared among Armenians when World War started. They were probably calculating that, the Ottoman army, which lost against Balcan countries, were going to lose easily against England,Russia and France, and the result of War was going to come out quickly. Thus, in January 10th of 1915, Sarikamis defeat happened in Russia front. Next month, Canakkale fights started. Despite of March 18th victory, Gelibolu landing happened. But, Armenians’ calculations were proved wrong. Russians, altough they were succeeding, took the invasion of East Anatolia very slow. Also Turkish Army didn’t dissolve in Canakkale. Even, War lasted 4 long years.3rd year, revolution in Russia happened. Russian front collapsed totally. Armenians couldn’t assume these and rebelled in Van to help Russia on April 15th. In Sitak(17th),in Bitlis(18th) and in Van(20th), they made violent rebellions. Armenian district in Van resisted for long and eventually in middle of May, Russia took control of the city.Muslims were totally killed here and an Armenian state was established under Russia protection. Arround 250.000 Armenians gathered in Van. In August,Turkish army got Van for sometime, but then Russia again got the control.

While Turkey was inside this dying-living conflict, such behaviours of Armenians, made Ittihat ve Terakki think that, managing in the war was up to make Armenians ineffective. Thus, the prevention of, removing Armenians from the regions that can effect War, especially from East Anatolia and Mersin-Iskenderun, and to settle them inside Iraq and Syria, applied. Since Armenian Rebel started in late April, ‘tehcir’ must have started in May.With a law (27 May) , authority of Tehcir was given to the army. With a Government decision of May 30, decision became without time-limit. The villages and towns that Armenians left empty, were going to be given to muslim emigrants, and , the price of their goods were going to be paid to Armenians and they were going to be helped to start their new life in the places they settled. And for the poor ones, state was going to help to settle.

Worst side of Armenian Tehcir was, the things that happened on the way. Because of hunger, weather conditions, diseases and misery, many people died. Also, because of robbery and revenge, they faced cruelty in some places, and were killed. There are several assumptions about number of Armenians who died during tehcir. Armenians and their sympathizers thoroughly exaggarrate and talk about million. Shaws(Ezel and Stanford Shaw) calculate as 200.000.

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From, Sina Aksin , ‘’Jön Türkler ve Ittihat ve Terakki’’