To reap twice-blessed rewards

[Anonymouse]

I don't care about how it used to be once upon a time, I see how there are actual discussions now and I'm not interested in wasting my time writing things that are going to dssappear.

There is a difference between discussing and writing banal and tactless shyt that gets deleted and gets you banned. Apparently you don't know the distinction. Continue to waste disk space with this pointless stuff.

[Gogor]

Controversy over use of Holocaust
Art Babych
Ottawa

Charges that Jewish leaders use the Holocaust as a club to oppress others drew an angry response from a spokesman for the Canadian Jewish Congress during an ecumenical conference to help North American Christians better understand the plight of Palestinian Christians.

"I stand here in amazement and some outrage that this conference, which is supposed to be looking at voices of peace and reconciliation in the Middle East, has become a forum for the holocaust," said Eric Vernon, director of the advocacy of-fice of the CJC in Ottawa.

"We don't need to be told that we are abusing the Holocaust, an intellectually dishonest argument which, in my opinion, falls into the camp of the most vile Holocaust denial."

Mr. Vernon was speaking from a floor microphone at the first Canadian Sabeel conference, which ran from Nov. 8 to 10 and was co-sponsored by the Anglican Diocese of Ottawa. He was responding to members of a panel - including an American Jewish theologian - who claimed Jewish leaders use the Holocaust as a form of abuse and to silence criticisms from others.

Marc Ellis, head of Jewish studies at Baylor University, had told the audience of predominantly Christians and Muslims that the past 50 years of Jewish history "has taken us from a helpless, suffering people to being an empowered and some-times abusive people."

It's a great tragedy that the Jewish "establishment" uses the Holocaust as a form of abuse, he added. "What it is being used for today is to dispossess and dislocate people and to permanently oppress people, and that's where I say No."

Another panelist, Canon Naim Ateek, founder and director of Sabeel, an ecumenical centre for Palestinian liberation the-ology in Jerusalem, also said the Holocaust has been used "to silence criticisms of the unjust policies of Israel."

Mr. Vernon, however, said a discussion of the murders of six million Jews had no place at the conference, entitled Truth and Reconciliation: Voices for Peace in the Holy Land. "And there is no excuse for this audience to be told that the Jewish community is perverting the memory of the Holocaust by using it for its own ends."

But Mr. Ellis, referring to the building of public Holocaust museums in Canada and the U.S., drew applause from many of the more than 100 delegates by stating, "When you make the suffering of the (Jewish) community public and invite others - and sometimes demand others - to pay attention to it, and use it to support power within those countries and outside of them, then it is a public discussion."

During a break, Anglican Bishop John Baycroft reminded Mr. Vernon that those at the conference were speaking out of their own experience and what they believe to be the truth.

"You had an opportunity to speak the truth as you saw it too," he said.

"Bishop, with all due respect," Mr. Vernon replied, "you can argue the truth until the cows come home. The fact is that I heard, quite clearly, one of the people up there talk about the Holocaust in a way that I found unconscionable and a dese-cration."

At the end of the conference, delegates agreed to establish a Canadian chapter with links to the U.S. branch. The Sabeel (Arabic for "the way" or "a spring of life-giving water") Centre was founded in 1990 by a group of Christians to raise awareness of the political situation in Jerusalem.

[Gogor]

Legislative hurdles expected no matter who controls Congress

By Sharon Samber

WASHINGTON, Oct. 31 (JTA) – With the November elections just around the corner, Jewish observers and activists are predicting that no matter who wins control of the U.S. Senate and House of Representatives, the Jewish communal agenda will encounter some of the same legislative hurdles it faced in the 106th session.

Many feel that even if the Democrats win back either the House or the Senate, the margin for the majority will be too slim to see significant movement.

"Margins will determine the degree of work that gets done," said Diana Aviv, vice president of public policy for United Jewish Communities, the Jewish community's central fund-raising and social service agency. Much would also depend on who wins the White House.

In the House, a net gain of six seats would give the Democrats a majority, while a net gain of five seats would change the leadership in the Senate.

Democrats are thought to have a good chance at winning the House and a more distant chance at winning the Senate.

A Democratic-controlled Congress would be different in style and approach, but there would be few major differences in the actual policies enacted, according to Norman Ornstein, resident scholar at the American Enterprise Institute.

"Neither side will have the troops to do what they want," he said.
As a result, Reva Price, Washington representative for the Jewish Council for Public Affairs, expects the same kinds of logjams that occurred this past year on controversial domestic issues such as gun control and hate crimes.

"It will still be difficult to make things happen," she said.

The 106th Congress passed only a few pieces of legislation that had been pushed hard by Jewish groups. Among them:

• a compromise religious liberty bill, which gives religious liberty protections to prisoners and patients, and eases restric-tive zoning laws that block religious institutions from building;

• a bill that allows victims of terrorism and their families to collect damages against countries that sponsor terrorism; and the reauthorization of the Violence Against Women Act, which provides funding for domestic violence programs.

• a U.S. aid package for Israel that includes $1.98 billion in military and $840 million in economic funds.
Though Congress was supposed to have adjourned earlier this month, budget negotiations continued this week and there is now the possibility of a lame-duck session following the elections.
Legislation whose status remained unclear as Congress worked to conclude its session this week includes:

• national hate crimes legislation, which would expand federal protection to victims of crimes motivated by sexual orien-tation, gender or disability;

• exempting from income tax restitution payments to Holocaust survivors;

• restoring immigrant benefits that were cut by welfare reform legislation; and

• cutting off aid to the Palestinians if they unilaterally declare a state.

While there is division in the Jewish community over a number of issues, many Jewish groups band together on a range of issues. Jewish organizations feel they were successful in quashing school voucher initiatives a resolution that would have blamed Turkey for its early 20th-century genocide against Armenians and a bill that would have outlawed "partial-birth" abortions.

[TomServo]

These articles might be put to good use on a website, not a message board. Stop this.

[Anonymouse]

These articles might be put to good use on a website, not a message board. Stop this.

He can't because he's a tart.

[TomServo]

He can't because he's a tart.

He's gone. Yes, I'm that good.

[Gogor]

There is a difference between discussing and writing banal and tactless shyt that gets deleted and gets you banned. Apparently you don't know the distinction. Continue to waste disk space with this pointless stuff.

Apparently you don't know the distinction.

[TomServo]

Aaaah! It's back!

Really though, this "anti-Jew" thing wasn't around here before. Who started it, I wonder...

[Gogor]

THE UNIQUENESS OF THE HOLOCAUST

Jews are no strangers to suffering. Throughout the ages, many others have also been victims to unspeakable cruelty, but the judgement of Winston Churchill is almost certainly the definitive description of the uniqueness of the Holocaust: "The
Final Solution is probably the greatest, most horrible crime ever committed in the whole history of the world."

Holocaust scholar Deborah Lipstadt points out two reasons why the German program of genocide remains in a class by itself as an example of evil: "It was the only time in recorded history that a state tried to destroy an entire people, regard-less of an individual's age, sex, location, profession, or belief. And it is the only instance in which the perpetrators con-ducted this genocide for no ostensible material, territorial, or political gain." In fact, the Holocaust remains incomprehen-sible. But that is all the more reason why it must at the very least be remembered.

[Gogor]

New Israeli ambassador's appointment stalled over 'Armenian massacre' claims
· Remarks by Ehud Toledano, Israel's candidate as ambassador to Turkey, concerning the alleged massa-cre of Armenians by Turks, are said to be behind Ankara's reportedly delaying his diplomatic approval
Ankara - Remarks by Ehud Toledano, Israel's candidate for ambassador to Turkey, concerning an alleged massacre of Armenians by Turks, have reportedly created a problem in his obtaining the necessary diplomatic agreement from Ankara for his appointment.
Asked about the problem reported in Monday's Turkish papers, Foreign Ministry spokesman Sermet Atacanli refused to commenton the grounds that the process surrounding ambassadorial appointments was "confidential."
News of the problem is said to have emerged following Israeli press reports on the issue.
According to Israeli press reports, Ottoman history professor Ehud Toledano took part in a radio program 16 years ago on April 24, the day declared by Armenians as "remembrance day" to commemorate the alleged mass killing of Armenians by Ottoman Turks in World War I.
According to Toledano, commenting subsequently on the Israeli press reports, he participated in this program "in order to balance another professor who claimed that the Turks had slaughtered the Armenians."
But he had been misunderstood due to a translation error. Toledano reportedly later talked with Turkish officials, explain-ing both his views and the error in translation.
When Toledano was appointed as ambassador, this 16-year-old program was brought up again, resulting in the Foreign Ministry's withholding its approval for his appointment.
The Israeli Embassy in Ankara would not comment on the reports, except to say this was regarded "as a diplomatic issue," and that Israel has friendly ties with Turkey.
Atacanli, facing reporters' questions Monday at the weekly press conference, said he would not speak about the matter "even if he knew anything about it."
There are about 3,000 Armenians in Israel, concentrated in east Jerusalem. This year saw an attack on the Turkish Consu-late in Jerusalem by Armenian militants who were subsequently caught by Israeli police.
There were discussions in Israel some years ago regarding putting the alleged massacre of Armenians into school books, but there are said to be two schools of thought in Israel concerning the massacre allegations.
The liberal one says that all massacre claims should be in school books, while the other version, that of Jewish national-ism, holds that the holocaust committed against Jews during World War II was unique, and that the other massacre claims disturb this uniqueness.
Today, allegations concerning the massacre of Armenians are mentioned in Israeli school books as, "Armenians allege the massacres took place, while the Turkish government's rejects this claim."