How to help Turks listen to you and try to understand your issues?!

[winoman]

I am simply putting down historical TRUTH and FACT in place of the "SELF PITY GARBAGE" that is so prevalent here.

I'm laughing to hard to even comment - though not much (really historical or dealing with any real truth) to comment on...

[bell-the-cat]

I am trying to show that....successful and charismatic leaders are the KEY INGREDIENT for success, be it nation building or war.

A comment which reveals how backward Turkish society still is - it has not moved much further on from the ideals of the warrior-hordes at its origin.

The key ingredients of nation-building (and war) are to have leaders that have a realistic appreciation of the way things are, an educated and hard-working population, prompt in its payment of taxes yet always ready to safeguard its individual rights, flourishing industrial complexes backed up by a flourishing academic world, and the whole setup run by an honest, diligent and non-partisan civil service.

[loveataturk]

Bell_the_cat, your assumptions are not the prevalent reality, but "IDEALS". I would love to have exactly the IDEALS that you have written in your post. Are they attainable? Have they been attained by anyone, YET?
Your idealistic approach has the key AXIOM "Average citizens of nations are all capable of making constant rational decisions, because they are all fed PERFECT-INFORMATION". I borrow the term "perfect-information" from Macro-Economics, mind you.
However, in reality, ruling-elites of all nations are a small minority, with close to perfect-information, however, through ever increasing manipulation of media (TV, newspapers, movies), they convey to the general public only the views that favor them.

NOW, how do you get our ideal society and rational choices by the public?????

[bell-the-cat]

Bell_the_cat, your assumptions are not the prevalent reality, but "IDEALS". I would love to have exactly the IDEALS that you have written in your post. Are they attainable? Have they been attained by anyone, YET?

The first step in attaining them is wanting them. They certainly won't be attained by any country (or ethnic group, or political party, or business, or religion, etc.) that believes the most important thing is to have "successful and charismatic leaders".

I know enough about Turkey to know that Turks have plenty of cynical realism about their leaders - yet the population still often prefers to take the easy route and go along with the demagogues and rabble-rousers.

[loveataturk]

Let me give you my opinion: If the Young Turks movement of early 20th century lived in Turkey today, the only decision about those YTurk leaders would be to whether
(a) Imprison them for life in Imra island together with Abdullah OCalan, the PKK terrorist leader (only because we do not have the death penalty in TR)
(b) Deport them to jail/prison in Uzbekistan or Kazakhstan, where they could dream their aggressive pan-turkist approach forever

I feel exactly the same way about our current leader, the Islamist leader, under the disguise of nice and lovely Europe-Turkey bridge builder, the uncanny Recep Tayyip Erdogan.

[TomServo]

Let me give you my opinion: If the Young Turks movement of early 20th century lived in Turkey today, the only decision about those YTurk leaders would be to whether
(a) Imprison them for life in Imra island together with Abdullah OCalan, the PKK terrorist leader (only because we do not have the death penalty in TR)
(b) Deport them to jail/prison in Uzbekistan or Kazakhstan, where they could dream their aggressive pan-turkist approach forever

I feel exactly the same way about our current leader, the Islamist leader, under the disguise of nice and lovely Europe-Turkey bridge builder, the uncanny Recep Tayyip Erdogan.

At least you know Erdogan is the biggest eshek of them all.

You get to have some lahmajun!

[The Mad Turk]

[QUOTE=TomServo]At least you know Erdogan is the biggest eshek of them all.

You get to have some lahmajun!




Thats you and whole of your family including your grand grand dad are esheks.And you probably have sex with them.it is very easy to swear but difficult to discuss in a civilisaed manner ok dummy?you are turkish and stop insulting me in turkish by sending private mails.

[Thai-Samurai]

[QUOTE=The Mad Turk]

At least you know Erdogan is the biggest eshek of them all.

You get to have some lahmajun!




Thats you and whole of your family including your grand grand dad are esheks.And you probably have sex with them.it is very easy to swear but difficult to discuss in a civilisaed manner ok dummy?you are turkish and stop insulting me in turkish by sending private mails.

please discuss your private lives in private emails, I dont have time to read crap.

[rainbow555]

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