Armenians & Turks & Medz Yegern

[Anonymouse]

Face it all governments are a menace.

[disksoleil]

I do not believe that killing diplomats or their families will help. most people who hear about it will think that Armenians are terrorists. I guess Ararat was pretty effective in terms of telling your story. (Although i hate the rape part, i cant imagine such disgusting sht happening) Anyway, i salute your stubbornness about telling your story. But guess what? IT takes lot's of time and effort, until Turkey recognizes it, it might happen thru diplomacy and understanding maybe, BUT never thru killing people.

By the way, i believe whomever killed in 1915 although they were innocent, will receive what they deserve, after all they suffered from god. i do not think their souls are lost. for their souls to be happy, you must tell their story to everyone. but their story not any other story. okay?

[SexyAries]

disksoleil: I praise your interest in wanting to learn more. and i commend ur effort in aproaching an armenian forum. although you have to understand u are a turk that is expressing his/her opinions to many aremnian people. its hard to do this because we are still so angry and i think we will be for a long time untill the turkish goverment stops denying the past. we are forgiving people we want to forgive but we will never forget. 1.5 million of our people are gone and out of those 1.5 million another 1.5 could have existed but because of your turkish goverment they did not have the oppurtunity to experience life as u and i have. DID THEY GIVE THOSE PEOPLE LIFE TO TAKE THEIR LIVES AWAY? we are not here to punsih them or repremand them we r merely taking our anger out we have that right. we levae it in the hands of GOD!

[disksoleil]

hi aries thanx for your post... i really understand why the armenians should be angry at turks... but sometimes it is hard because it was not the people who carried out the killings... it was a bunch of officials who never consulted people. even till today most people are not aware of what has happened approx. 100 years ago. i would really want the genocide to be recognized. people in my country need peace. and i do not want to hear anything from any armenian like insulting turks. because we are not all about killing. all those times when turks and armenians lived together i am sure there had been good times also. why should turks and armenians hate each other? i am willing to do my part to honor the souls of those killed during that time. even if every single person in this forum hate me, or whatever i, they find a way to insult me i do not hate them, not because i do not have the sense of honour... but because i am determined to make a bridge between my heart and theirs. give peace a chance guys. you can still get genocide recognized if you did not hate people ya know. HATE will not get you anywhere. anger is understandable, but to what degree?

[xBaron Dants]

Disksoleil, I don't believe that you are hated on this forum, and I must say that I respect you for having a noble cause, and being so determined about it. That is not to say that I have agreed with all what you say, but on a whole, you seem to be a very intelligent person, although you obviously are biased.

If you want to see why many armenians hate turks, just read "wise"s posts. For every turk we talk to that makes some sort of sense, there are about 10 of them like "wise" who speak to us in an arrogant and insulting tone, and with whom any attempt at dialogue is a waste of our time.

[SexyAries]

disksoleil: YOUR WELCOME, BUT I DO HAVE TO SAY WE DONT HATE TURKS IN GENERAL WE HATE THE TURKISH GOVERMENT YES WE HATE ALL THE TURKS THAT KILLED OUR ANCESESTORS BUT WE DONT HATE U NOR DO WE HATE ANY TURK THAT IS WILLING TO RECOGNIZE THE GENOCIDE AND ONCE AND FOR ALL BRING PEACE TO THESE TWO NATIONS. ALL WE WANT IS RECOGNITION AND AN APOLOGY WE CANT CHANGE THE PAST WE CAN ONLY MAKE THE FUTURE BRIGHTER.

[disksoleil]

Hi again,

I read wise's posts, i think he is Turkish yes, (from the typical language errors he made :P )

I guess he came here to fire back at "some Armenians" for accusing his country or something. Well, the way he acts will not do any good for anything. I am not even sure what he tried to do, well such people exist.

By the way it sounds nice no one hates me here

[Shahumyan]

I think the problem here lies within our position in society and how we are treated

The fact of the matter is , Turkish workers are subjegated to propaganda from the Turkish ruling class. They are told that the armenians were sabateurs, rebels, etc etc. This is clearly to further their aim of keeping the class consiousness of the workers down, and be able to continue to opress them.

On the Armenian side, we also are subjegated to propaganda of present day Turkish people, saying they are liars, butchers, rapists, etc etc. We are told this by our Ultra-Right wing politicians (Dashnaks) and the ruling class.

However, are our goals not the same as the Turkish working class? for better life, for better future. Yet the obstacle is not the other race, but our own ruling classes, and their agents in government, in religion and the apparatus of the state.

[xBaron Dants]

Originally posted by Shahumyan I think the problem here lies within our position in society and how we are treated

The fact of the matter is , Turkish workers are subjegated to propaganda from the Turkish ruling class. They are told that the armenians were sabateurs, rebels, etc etc. This is clearly to further their aim of keeping the class consiousness of the workers down, and be able to continue to opress them.

On the Armenian side, we also are subjegated to propaganda of present day Turkish people, saying they are liars, butchers, rapists, etc etc. We are told this by our Ultra-Right wing politicians (Dashnaks) and the ruling class.

However, are our goals not the same as the Turkish working class? for better life, for better future. Yet the obstacle is not the other race, but our own ruling classes, and their agents in government, in religion and the apparatus of the state.

Sorry, but any "fraternity" with the Turkish population where we'd all live together in one big country just won't work out...Remember what happened last time we lived in the same country?

[Shahumyan]

in present day conditions you are absolutely 100% correct, and i would be a complete moron to suggest we simply rubber out the borders.
However , this is not what i am suggesting. What i am suggesting is for the workers of Armenia and the caucauses and turkey see the common goal for a better life, and gain the consiousness to overthrow those who oppress us.

Why could it be in the interests of the workers of armenia to maintain a border with its neighbours, if the ruling classes of the neighbouring nations were not there to threaten the armenian people?