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Anyway my dear penpal
If you want to take Azeri's word with no evidence
Hey its your bed !
If you want to take Azeri's word with no evidence
Hey its your bed !
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"All truth passes through three stages:
First, it is ridiculed;
Second, it is violently opposed; and
Third, it is accepted as self-evident."
Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860) -
I was just critisizing that Armenians think that there have been no Turkish/Islamic heritage in Armenia and KArabag.
I was not disputing the reliability of Azeri news agencies.
Originally posted by GavurComment
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chek this link if you havent allready you may find usefull info
[note: Gavur, I fixed the link, it wasn't working before - Hovik]"All truth passes through three stages:
First, it is ridiculed;
Second, it is violently opposed; and
Third, it is accepted as self-evident."
Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)Comment
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Shrewd Grigoryan, is quick to blame on Soviets everything. SO it wasnt Armenians but the Soviets?
I am not blaming avarage Armenian of being anti-Turkish. I know a mosque in Dagestan that was neglected and almost destroyed, was rebuilt and restored by 2 Armenian masons.
Originally posted by Gavurchek this link if you havent allready you may find usefull info
[note: Gavur, I fixed the link, it wasn't working before - Hovik]Comment
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TurQ, I don't think that Armenians are saying Azeris or Muslims never lived in and around Armenia. There's really no motive for such a claim, since Armenians do not fear losing the little land they have based on historical population figures. That there were 50,000 or 100,000 or whatever number of Azeris living in Armenia 50 years ago and none today, does not scare us into thinking that anyone has a claim on the tiny sliver of land we have left, which nobody wants anyway. So, there's no motive for us to lie about what may or may not have happened to Islamic architecture on those lands.
As for the news article that you cited, I'm surprised you gave it any weight whatsoever. The article takes its information from an idiot who also says that the Khachkars in Nahcivan are Albanian, not Armenian. Having read that part, how do you give any weight to this article? If you have any credible sources for your opinion that Armenians have destroyed mosques, please let us know. I, for one, am totally against such barbaric behavior, and I think all of the Armenians here in this forum would agree with me.Comment
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Azeri population exceeded 200,000 in Armenia once(a lot more than 50,000).
Anyways
Here's an article published in the magazine "The Economist" in November,1997. It also touches about the reading of the history "Selectively". There is also a part about a Armenian pastor's interesting approach for the Azeri/Turkish existence in Karabag.
HEADLINE: Letter from Karabakh. Quarrels in stone
The Economist
November 8, 1997, U.S. Edition
GANDZASAR
History and identity in Nagorno-Karabakh are shifting concepts
On the drum of a famous Armenian church two bearded benefactors,
squatting oriental-style with their legs folded beneath them, hold aloft models of a church. It is a touching image of pride in what they have built. Who were they? Very recently, men were fighting over this question.
The church at Gandzasar (see picture) is built on an outcrop looking over the central valley in the north of Nagorno-Karabakh. When the woods below are gilded with autumn colours, it is a breathtaking spot, as though you are floating in space. But the situation is also strategic. As recently as 1992 a battle was fought here between Azerbaijanis and Armenians for control of disputed territory in a war the Armenians eventually won. Sitting on the churchyard wall Artur Agaranyan, a soldier-turned-deacon, describes with pride how they fought off the attackers from the opposite hill. The church at Gandzasar, finished in 1238, illustrates how the Armenians rolled their secular, religious and military life all into one. Made of two connected parts, it is the size of a large parish church. The western section, a kind of nave, is a fine example of a gavit, a dark and bare chamber with stalactite carvings in the vault that served as a burial-place-cum-assembly-hall, a space for worldly business.
The eastern part is the sanctuary, a spiritual inner chamber, its gloom now lit by clutches of candles. The outer facets of the dome express the union of the two spheres.
Those oriental stone potentates holding up the model churches are
probably Hasan Jalalian, who built the church, and his son Vakhtang. The Jalalian family were as often bishops as princes at Gandzasar; when it came to defending their hilltop against invaders or fighting their neighbours, they were also generals. Karabakh, a Turkic-Persian compound meaning "Black Garden" because of its rich soil (the Armenians call the region Artsakh), is also fertile ground for myth-making and the two combatant sides have fallen into a somewhat grotesque argument about who lived here first. The Azerbaijanis point to a massive influx of Armenians after Russia annexed the region in 1813 to suggest that their enemies are recent interlopers.
But how can this be squared with all the old medieval churches like
Gandzasar?
Well, say historians in Baku, up until the 19th century the church at
Gandzasar was the seat of one of Christendom's more obscure bishoprics, the "catholicosate of Albania". In the first millennium, Albania was not only a Balkan country but also a realm in the eastern Caucasus. Those sculpted men who built the church and hundreds of others like it were not Armenians at all, the Baku scholars have argued, but Albanians. And the Albanians, they add, were the ancestors of the Azerbaijanis.
This is nonsense. According to most historians, the Albanians, a
Caucasian people first recorded by the Romans, simply disappeared around the 10th century and became assimilated with their neighbours. All that remained was a territorial name, which the eastern branch of the Armenian church took for its diocese. Not that the Azerbaijanis have it all wrong.
They would do better to focus on some of the Armenians' own selective
telling of history. Many Armenians barely acknowledge that there were
Azeris here until this century--an easy trick because most of them were
shepherds living in one place in summer, another in winter.
The Muslim population had only two notable monuments in Karabakh, both
elegant 19th-century blue-tiled mosques in the town of Shusha, which are now half-ruined from the war. The Archbishop of Karabakh overreaches when he says that they were built by Persians--traditional allies of the Armenians.
"We say to the Persians come and restore them. We don't say that to the
Azeris," he sayswith a laugh. But an Armenian architectural historian,
Shagen Mkrtchyan, attributes them to Azeri architects and points out their borrowing of local Armenian elements.
The truth is that this has always been frontier land, and Armenians and
Muslims have co-existed locally for centuries. Both nurtured Karabakh's
reputation for good wine, sheep, churches, music and dour hospitality.
Exact borders did not matter because both were in a larger empire: local government was commonly Armenian, with local "meliks" who ran their own affairs but paid tribute to their Persian, Ottoman or Russian overlords.
Only since 1994 have the Armenians had an ethnically homogeneous territory, unusually and for the first time, once its contours were drawn in blood.
Originally posted by phantomComment
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[QUOTE=TurQ]Azeri population exceeded 200,000 in Armenia once(a lot more than 50,000).
Anyways
Here's an article published in the magazine "The Economist" in November,1997. It also touches about the reading of the history "Selectively". There is also a part about a Armenian pastor's interesting approach for the Azeri/Turkish existence in Karabag.
QUOTE]
50,000, 200,000, what difference does it make, now there are almost none. The same can be said of the number of Armenians in Azerbaijan, as you know. Once there were many (I won't bother with precise figures since yours are imprecise as well), and now there are almost none.
At least in Karabagh, having a tiny population of only 150,000, you can still find honest historians, such as Shagen Mkrtchyan, who aknowledge Azeri architecture when they see it. How many Azeri historians can you find among a population of 8 million who will be as honest? Albanian churches, Albanian khachkars, Albanian monastaries, somehow all littered with Armenian inscriptions! Who do they think they're fooling? Only idiots buy this crap.Comment
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Idiots like some Turks"All truth passes through three stages:
First, it is ridiculed;
Second, it is violently opposed; and
Third, it is accepted as self-evident."
Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)Comment
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Ulan Gavur, ile fircayi cekeceksin digil mi!Originally posted by Gavur
Comment
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Somehow he is generous of using such words when it comes to Turks. He is getting some kind of an inspiration or something who knows?
I think this whole Albanian thing is just a action-reaction thing. I know Azeris are greatly disappointed their governments failure in Karabag. As long as there is no settlement there this will go on. This all is the same as denying Turkish existence and heritage in Karabag and Armenia. Or like Hellektor's interesting theories about Azeris and Azerbeyjan is like a fictious nation that have never existed, but invented in 1918. And you see a number of Armenians was quick to embrace such things..
Phantom you have in dept knowledge of details and beauties of Turkish slang
Like firca cekmek/atmak or madara olmak
Some folks are so talented in producing such slang, and when I go to Turkey I hear new ones.
Originally posted by phantomUlan Gavur, ile fircayi cekeceksin digil mi!Comment
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